Power shower tripping earth leakage

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Mira Advance ATL

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

I'm fine with 'normal' electric, but just add a single diode into the mix and I run screaming "Witches, Devil" etc.

My complete lack of knowledge means I don't even know where or even how to test the internals to find what is causing the RCCB to trip, so hoping the extensive knowledge on this Forum will be able to come to my assistance.

Geoff – My eyes just glaze over when I look at those internals.

[Chris DentonParticipant @chrisdenton53037]

It's very simple, if you don't know what your doing – get someone else to do it.

But do check for any water leaks etc.

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Geoff, without sounding disrespectful,

If you dont know what you are doing, engage a sparkie…..safety first…

Ideally I would isolate the heater side from the electronics as a first, see if that helps….if the fault doesnt occur again, then its quite possible the heater is leaky….obviously if it trips with the heater isolated, then there's an issue with the electronics..

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Hi Geoff- where did you find it, in the science museum? It looks like its time to get a new one fitted. Water and electricity don't mix too well, the stain on the front cover looks ominous. Perhaps strip the relays off the board before you junk it – may be useful on the Ruby?
BobH

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Geoff,
I would suspect the heating element.
Isolate the shower at the consumer unit and the double pole isolator switch. (Possibly a ceiling pull switch.)
With an insulation tester (Megger) set to the 500 volt setting if the voltage is selectable check the insulation between both brown wires and the red wire and the neutral wire and earth. (If all three elements in the heater are intact just one of these tests would be OK as the resistance of the elements is only a few tens of ohms.) It would be safer to remove the brown wires, the red wire and the neutral wire from the screw terminals (Making a note of where they connect to.) on the PCB just in case there are any capacitors or VDRs that could be damaged with the 500 volts from the insulation tester. The insulation readings should be more than 10 meg ohms.

Les.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I would agree about the if you don't know etc

What I would probably do is disconnect the leads to the heating element – the rather large ones – being very careful with what I did with them – whoops – easy to be careful on this one, undo the screws on the board as that is where the power is coming from to the heater. Then see if it still trips the breaker. If it doesn't the problem is with the heater which looks to be replaceable. Search make type spares. It probably will still trip but a spare board may be available.

Have to say though that I have made assumptions about what I can see in the photo.

John

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[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Les

Does insulation resistance LN-E (cpc) really need to be 10 Megs to comply with regs ?

My advice would be call a registered sparks or repairer.

Emgee

[Brian StillParticipant @brianstill44962]

Hi Geoff

Having worked on these a couple of years or so ago I found a recurring fault was a sensor on the bottom of the unit. There are two sensors connected to the board with two flexible wires each. If I remember correctly these were coloured blue for one and red for another. If you unplug these one at a time you may find the fault. The heater is another possibility. Unfortunately the sensors are not available as spares or were not when I looked into this.

Brian

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

When all else fails, read the manual It includes a circuit diagram and identification of parts. The maker's policy is that they won't supply spares unless you know what you're doing. For the rest of us they have a customer support service, which would be my first port of call unless the thing is so old that you decide to replace it.

In the absence of obvious water damage, the most likely cause is a dodgy heating element – as others have suggested. The fix for that is to replace the whole "Tank Assembly"

The best way forward if you don't want to be accused on this site of having a "holier than thou" attitude to H&S is to disconnect the RCD. It may make your "Power Shower" experience a whole lot more electric, but don't forget, “That which does not kill us, makes us stronger.”

Cheers,

Dave

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

I've had to replace a few electric showers over the years- every one it was the heater element. Does not mean that's your problem of course. It is almost always cheaper to just buy a new one.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

All the problems I have had, fortunately, have been with the pressure switches and valves in these beasts.

Now we have a mixer shower that runs from the combi boiler, not as powerful but much simpler!

[HowiParticipant @howi]

Take the advice offered and just buy a new one, better safe than sorry, that stain does like ominous though. The elcb is there for a purpose – to stop you getting electrocuted – don't mess is good advice whether you (think) you know what you are doing or not.

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Emgee,
I just chose 10 meg as it seems about the value I would expect for a good element. It would have to be less than 10 K to trip a 30 mA RCD. I suggested using an insulation tester on the basis that if he has one he would hopefully understand what he was doing. (But the fact that he had to ask the question would suggest that he does not understand enough to be trying to repair it.).

Les.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Cheaper & safer to buy & fit a new one.

Geo.

[frank brownParticipant @frankbrown22225]

"Buying a new one" will involve, moving the water feed and the mains feed and repairing the wall and re-tiling with obsolete tiles. Repair it or remove it and take it to any electrical/electronic repair person, its a trivial fault.

Frank

[HowiParticipant @howi]

I have not seen a shower like that, with those internals for a long time, I would suggest it is way past it's best.

It looks to have been mounted on top of the tiles, so no re tiling needed, electrics and water feeds are also external, so should be easy to replace with a modern unit. NO! An earth leakage fault is not a trivial fault.

For what a new shower would cost, it is not worth it – I think some people need a reality check before offering advice about repairs. While you may run the risk yourself, encouraging others to do the same is bordering on the criminal.

Sorry to be so forcefull about this, but what you or I may do in similar circumstances is one thing ( that is your and my risk), to encourage others who may not have the same skills or equipment, is another thing entirely.

BUY A NEW SHOWER!

[Chris DentonParticipant @chrisdenton53037]

Completely agree with the above.

New shower is £60? Then pay for someoej to fit it.

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

The cables don’t look man enough either, IMHO.As others have said buy a new one.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Howi, to be fair to Frank, I took his "trivial fault" to mean simple to fix in the right hands, NOT ignore because it is trivial and not worthy of attention.

[frank brownParticipant @frankbrown22225]

Yes you are right KWIL, I changed a boiler with its internal element which was tripping the RCD in about 1/4 of an hour. To replace the rusted screw in a broken out plastic bush in the case which also carried the main boiler earthing strap took about 3 hours and was definitely non-trivial. ( 28 year old "sportsman" shower). That was three years ago.

Frank

[HacksawParticipant @hacksaw]

70's Chicken tiles ! Pink or white?

[HacksawParticipant @hacksaw]

Get a pro..

 

 

Edited By Hacksaw on 09/12/2015 20:02:07

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

My kids called them "dickybird" tiles

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

No, there is clearly a teddy bear in them – anyone can see that! Surely the biggest selling patterned tile of all time, dating from the 70s to my certain knowledge…

Merry

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