Plumber’s grease

[Sam StonesParticipant @samstones42903]

Gentlemen,

Can anyone tell me about the white grease used on water taps by plumbers.

I have a tube of the stuff, and wonder if it will be OK for the (steel) click and (brass) ratchet of my clock. All I need would cover the head of a match, so there seems to be little point in buying a tin of normal grease if this will do.

Would it be OK on the steel main spring too?

 

Thanks for you help,

 

Sam

[Sam StonesParticipant @samstones42903]

Suitability for clocks?

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

The white grease I’ve used in plumbing is just that, a thick fairly water resistant grease. I wouldn’t use it on my car, never mind clocks. How about vaseline?

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

You would be better using a PTFE spray or clock oil rather than “vaseline”. In spite of its apparent properties “vaseline” actually absorbs water, I used to test (and reject) very large drums of petroleum jelly (aka vaseline)

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Some of this Plumbers grease is Silicone based, so bear that in mind.

Some of the older stuff might be Lithium based.

I think I would go for a modern grease such as KWIL’s suggestion.

 

Clive

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Hi Sam

 

I wouldn’t use grease and certainly would not use any sort of spray anywhere near your super clock.

Clock oil should be quite sufficient. Remember grease and the carrier agent for sprays can form a sticky residue and, over time, bits of dust, grit etc can stick to this forming an effective grinding compound – the fine pivots of your clock are vulnerable. Controlling where a spray goes is almost impossible and you could deposit a “dust attracter”  to the wheels – with disasterous concequences!  Stay with a good quality clock oil. If you have a problem sourcing this send me a PM and I may be able to help.

 Yes oil is OK for the main spring too.

 

Regards

 

Norman

 

Edited By NJH on 21/08/2011 18:58:54

Edited By NJH on 21/08/2011 19:04:37

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Someone once told me that the best oil is made from the jaws of Porpoises?

Myself, I use a three pack of oil graded by colour and viscosity which has always proved to be very good when I have used it on clocks and camera shutter delays.

 

Clive

[Sam StonesParticipant @samstones42903]

This is great information, some of which confirms my doubts. I trust too, that having gone down part of this track before, I haven’t bored the socks off any of you gentlemen.

Put simply, I have of necessity, become a skinflint.

Yet, I’m conscious of “spoiling the ship for ha’p’orth of tar”, and since I won’t be making anything else, I want to do the right thing. Judging from the replies, it is also necessary for me to use more cyber `ink’ and put this current phase of my project into better perspective.

 

Before the clock is assembled for the last time (by me at least), I need to lubricate it in a couple of less accessible places, ie. the `click’ and the ratchet wheel inside the fusee, and also the main spring. Now clean, polished and lacquered, the fusee, great wheel and maintaining wheel are ready for assembly. It would be handy therefore, to apply lubricant to the ratchet so that these parts can be assembled and put to one side.

A ten minute job!

Although there have been a couple of reasons why the main spring needs cleaning, I no longer have the correct means of removing it from the barrel. In fact, I never have.

NB – IT’S TOO DANGEROUS WITHOUT THE RIGHT EQUIPMENT!

It has been suggested elsewhere, that I wouldn’t need to remove the spring from the barrel if I washed it in petrol, and then applied grease. If greasing is the better approach, it should be possible to apply a tiny `drop’ between each layer as I wind it. In view of the above, that will have to wait until after the clock is fully assembled

Gordon, I considered Vaseline, but it melts at about body temperature. Watching the clock dripping stuff could be embarrassing in a Melbourne summer. Then again there wouldn’t be much of it. With my limited knowledge in chemistry, I have to ask – Why should a grease based upon silicone or lithium cause concern?

Thanks for your comments about Vaseline, KWIL. Spraying on a lubricant is not an option for me, having spent time testing and applying shellac lacquer to the brass in the past few weeks. I could of course decant some onto a wooden toothpick, and poke that where needed. (And nowhere else!)

The pivots, pallets, and impulse bits require the absolute minimum of oil but, on this clock at least, they are always accessible. Advice from several quarters has shown me the way to lubricate the clock, and that using a minimal amount of clock oil is very important.

Thank you for your comments, Norman and Clive. I had the notion that a sticky grease would suit both the ratchet and the spring, and having `washed out’ a couple of camera shutters, I can appreciate the separation and migration of oil from cheaper greases.

 

Regards to all,

 

Sam

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Clive, I think the oil youare thinking of is Whale oil from the Sperm Whale, it used to be the clock oil, but not now available. Ian S C

[jomacParticipant @jomac]

Sam Hi, Im’e not into delicate clocks, IC engines is hard enough, the thought of putting dollops of grease into such a precision time piece gives me the shudders. So how about powdered graphite, Cutting up a carpenters or large kids pencil and the use a mortar and pestel, filter through a nylon stocking, bang it around inside a plastic bag should give you enough for the job, maybe first oil with thin sewing machine then the graphite, I have got a 4 litre container of graphite, but dont know how coarse it is, as I have not use it for years, but will when I cast the crankcases for my DA 1cc engine.

John Holloway.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

PTFE is an interesting lubricant, it is what I call, ‘Gap Filling’.

It replaces dirt and fills the microscopic pores of the metal and ensures permanent lubrication.

It is available suspended in a thin oil and as a grease.

The name TRI-Flow is the name it is sold under.

I have often used it when cleaning and lubricating guns and a later inspection shows it has wicked out the dirt from joints and seams.

I have also used it in an engine as an additive and it quietens it down and it seems to run ‘Freer’.

Perhaps a minute application of ptfe might be a good way to go!

 

Clive

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

For almost as long as clocks have existed the problem of lubrication has always been with us. To some extent it was partly solves by the use of ‘Gilding Metal’ for the plates which have a sort of self lubricating properties. Clock and watch makers have always used oil which causes problems because it ‘gathers dust’ and it oxidises losing its lubricating properties and becoming sticky. However in the past few years two things have arrived on the scene. Firstly there is the synthetic clock oil and the PTFE spray. Most folk make a mistake with this latter they just spray it on. To use it you have to spray it on before assembly. When dry you have to gently buff the thing off with a dry lint free cloth and then assemble. The synthetic clock oils are non-sticky, about £5 for a small pot which would last an amateur several 10s of years.

Sam – spring winders are easy to make t think there was a thread on them.

Dick

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I used to think graphite from a pencil would be a good lubricant, but I found the it is mixed with clay which is an abrasive, it varies depending on the grade of pencil. You can of course buy a puffer bottle of graphite powder at the hardware shop.

The spray on teflon dries and leaves a few tenths of a thou coating on the part, must get some, a locally avalable one is Supper Lube, available as a grease or spray, the latter might be the one for clocks. Ian S C

[merlinParticipant @merlin98989]

I have used diff/back axle EP80 or EP90 oil or similar for the mainspring. If the ends of the barrel are skeletonised you will be relying on a good fairly air-tight overall clock case to avoid a grinding paste forming, but that applies everywhere.

I would have thought that a tiny drop of clock oil is all that is needed anywhere else on the clock, clicks included.

[David LittlewoodParticipant @davidlittlewood51847]

Following up Ian's comment about powdered graphite, it is used for puffing into locks (lubricates without attracting grit); one brand I have on my shelf is called "Lock-Eze" or something like that.

David

[Sam StonesParticipant @samstones42903]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for this renewed interest.

Although it was August last year when I was querying the use of plumber’s grease for my skeleton clock, this is now a good opportunity to make a few additional comments.

In the intervening period, I was fortunate enough to make contact with a group of very professional clockmakers/ repairers here in Melbourne who put me wise to what was need with regards to clock lubrication, even supplying me with a few mls each of three grades of oil. Upon their request, I took my own bottles. The thickest grade (for the main spring), had a smell similar to heavy engine oil, and reminded me of that used in automobile differential gear boxes.

It was emphasised to me that the amount of oil to apply should be minimal, otherwise it would begin to be `pulled’ out of the bearings by a combination of capillary action and gravity. I was somewhat surprised by this until I watched what happened. Sure enough, even though the bearings were slightly recessed, any excess would appear to drag oil out of the bearing and down the sides of the clock plates.

In addition, I became rather concerned about the faint crunch each time I turned the winder key, and it was this sound/feel which caused me to think that the main spring needed lubricant. Then I realised that this problem was due to the fact that I had not managed to get enough oil into the end bearings of the mainspring barrel. Once I did this, most of the `crunch’ disappeared and so did a growing variability in the clock’s time-keeping. It was rather curious to realise that as the main spring ran down, the clock would gain speed. A reexamination of the balance wheel and lever escapement was sufficient to show that under this `run-down’ condition, the balance wheel swings through a smaller arc to produce a quicker beat. One source of this variability comes from the design of the fusee, but that's another story. Meanwhile, my pictures may help those of you wishing to know more.

Melbourne can be a rather dusty place, so the matter of a sealed cabinet had been addressed earlier in the build. My solution was to get the local glazier to make me a plain glass (five piece) cover from 3mm glass, sealed at the corners with silicone. I should point out that access to the clock for winding means that the cover needs to be easily removed. I therefore made the wooden base with a groove to accept the bottom edge of the glass. This groove was carefully lined with a bulky fabric so that while air could leak through this labyrinth (to compensate for the changes in ambient temperature and pressure), dust would be excluded.

Thanks again for your interest.

Regards to all,

Sam

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