Please take care when posting or responding off forum

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The problem with that is there would be virtually no adverts, I've just looked through all the for sale adverts and only recognise two names from the forum and only one of those is a frequent poster.

J

Edited By JasonB on 07/10/2014 16:41:20

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Russ B on 07/10/2014 15:55:49:

The only people who would be inconvenienced are those attempting to sign up purely to access wanted and free adds with no interest in taking part or even just openly discussing thoughts/plans with like minded or more educated/experienced folk on here

So, if a person doesn't care for discussion groups (not everyone shares your enthusiasm) that makes him persona non grata for anything else on the site? So what, a person only comes here for the sale/want ads? Is he/she to be marginalised because of it? Who was it that decided that the forums are the major raison d'etre for the entire site that should be embraced by anyone coming here?

I frankly see nothing wrong with someone coming here just for the ads. Of course, a respondent's forum posting record might give added confidence in him as a seller purchaser but don't see why those without such a record should be denied. That said, it wouldn't hurt for the seller or buyer's record (if any) to be posted along with his other credentials when placing or replying to an ad (could be done voluntarily or by the system) …. sort of like the way eBay feedback is supposed to work (but doesn't).

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Now if everone bothered to fill in a profile when they joined it is then a simple matter to click on their name in the advert which will then show you how many posts they have made and from their you can view their posts to see what sort of member they may be. Might save a few rants

J

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 07/10/2014 17:04:07:

 

I frankly see nothing wrong with someone coming here just for the ads.

 

What about the fraudulent ones who are main reason for this whole thread??

 

Posted by Bandersnatch on 07/10/2014 17:04:07:

So, if a person doesn't care for discussion groups (not everyone shares your enthusiasm) that makes him persona non grata for anything else on the site?

 

No not at all, and I hope I didn't imply that? I wanted to sympathise with the quieter audience. That said, it's not like they're going to keel over and die if they can't post an Advert/Wanted or respond to one.

I wouldn't want to marginalise anyone but you can't bake a cake without cracking a few eggs – not everyone will be happy, but perhaps it wouldn't kill the genuine buyers and sellers to just pop up and say hello.

 

Posted by JasonB on 07/10/2014 17:21:49:

Now if everone bothered to fill in a profile when they joined it is then a simple matter to click on their name in the advert which will then show you how many posts they have made and from their you can view their posts to see what sort of member they may be. Might save a few rants

 

So perhaps filling out the profile could be the trigger for allowing response to, or listing of, wanted/for sales.

Edited By Russ B on 07/10/2014 17:41:46

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Russ B on 07/10/2014 17:39:18:

So perhaps filling out the profile could be the trigger for allowing response to, or listing of, wanted/for sales.

Edited By Russ B on 07/10/2014 17:41:46

Would not make a lot of difference as anyone can fill in a profile and write what they like so you would have no idea if they were a badie or not.

Could make it subscribers only, much like you had to buy a mag in the old days to read the classifieds or get the form to send in one yourself.

J

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

JasonB

Fair enough, there is obviously no easy answer. I wouldn't like to see it exclusive online – IMO it's not a bad idea, but the best place for an exclusive classifieds for the mag subscribers, by the mag subscribers – is in the mag that way it targets the audience with absolute accuracy.

I can see now this is a very complicated issue but I still think cakes and eggs about this. If everyone is happy, then that would be "perfect" and perfection is unrealistic in any situation.

Minimal levels of interference and security are obviously very desirable. I'd hypothesise that security, no matter what form, is an inconvenience, when it's no longer an inconvenience (no matter how small!), it is no longer secure.

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Russ B on 07/10/2014 17:39:18:

Posted by Bandersnatch on 07/10/2014 17:04:07:

 

I frankly see nothing wrong with someone coming here just for the ads.

What about the fraudulent ones who are main reason for this whole thread??

What about them? Everyone has to be tarred with the same brush – or at least unduly restricted – because of a few bad eggs? If you subscribe to the theory that every problem has to be fixed 100%, regardless of the fallout (on the innocent) ….sure.

Or you can point out the problem and say "caveat emptor" …. as in so many cases in real life that we all have to deal with. Pretty much what Neil did with this thread. The warning is salutary (thanks Neil!) but I can't believe that many here actually need "protecting" from it by draconian measures.

Edited By Bandersnatch on 07/10/2014 22:10:56

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Who rattled your cage eh?

Im not tarring everyone with the same brush and I think I and others have specifically been trying to think of things that don't affect people,

you've made some good points but in an aggressive way, and now your taking my comments completely out of contex and to extremes that are just ridiculous, you just seem to be here to kick up a fuss and make a scene, and well, you've got top marks in my opinion, thanks for the input all the same though, everyone has a different way of communicating and this is obviously yours.

You remind me of CaptinCaveman each time you've kicked up, it brings a little smile to my face, perhaps many are to old, or to young to remeber him but it amuses me.

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Russ, please believe me my postings were intended to be serious comments – although, obviously, an opposing viewpoint. I'm sorry you couldn't accept them that way. Some people are a little more direct than others; some people are a little more sensitive than others. In any event, I seem to have hit a nerve, for which I apologise.

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Bandersnatch firstly thanks for the apology, and don't worry, I did accept and understand your comments, the only nerve that was hit was not by you making your point, but the way you inversed the objective of mine – slightly maliciously by turning my proposal in to a negative extreme (and one that it was specifically aiming to avoid)

For my very own direct response back at you earlier, I do apologies and I would reiterate that I wasn't rubbishing your idea, purely trying to better explain the specific object of my own (that being increased security, thus making it harder or economically inconvenient for scammer to linger around here- while specifically NOT causing obstruction or inconvenience to any genuine members be them active or not)

[CotswoldsPhilParticipant @cotswoldsphil]

It's easy to fall into the potential trap of making personal information email / telephone numbers available to undesirables. I did not include any email address in my advert but instead decided to use a "mafia phone" (Neil's term) to control what data was published. I still managed, however, to provide an email address 3 times by responding to Wanted adverts via email. (dumb or what)

This discussion has caused me to think further about my experience with my classified sale and how it might have been improved in terms of privacy, without adding any of the restrictions discussed so far. The key is Personal Messaging, it's already part of the website and hides email details very effectively whilst making contact simple and effective. Making PM the sole method of contact for adverts would help mitigate any perceived risk. Once an advertiser is happy with a contact, then email / telephone numbers could be exchanged to progress the transaction.

CotswoldsPhil

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

I've been thinking about all this security stuff, and I think anyone who wanted to know who I am, or where I live, or what tools and machines I own could easily. If they were to read all my posts and adverts, see my hobbies ie. pubs,bikes etc., all that needs doing is trawl round a few pubs in my area and ask a few questions. My point being that you can't stay secret for long, unless you work hard at it. After all that's how the secret services get a lot of their information. Knowing my email address means nothing,I get lots of spam just from auto fishing (or whatever the term is )

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

G'day.

My ISP allows multiple email addresses. I registered about 10 of them.

One is for private, family and friends use only and they are requested not to pass it on.

The others are used for answering adverts etc. Is is quite informative to discover which companies on-sell the email info to 3rd parties!

Any repeated spam to one of the spare email addresses simply requires that that address is deleted from the ISP list and another substituted.

Messy – yes; Paranoid – probably; But it does allow one to keep on top of the situation.

It's a bit like having a spare credit card account for online trading. Just sufficient funds are placed into the account for each trade.

* Danny M *

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Danny M2Z on 08/10/2014 23:27:49:

One is for private, family and friends use only and they are requested not to pass it on.

Has it worked so far.

The reason I ask is because I tried essentially the same thing. I have my own domain so I can create whatever email addresses I wish. I created a "prime" address for limited family/friends use and worked hard at protecting it – but it still got breached eventually.

To work (if in fact, it ever can in today's environment) it requires considerable care. For example, if anyone includes you as a cc (not bcc) on emails to others, it's breached right there. If any of the family/friends gets some malware on their computer that harvests email addresses – there's a breach. Even using one of your other, non-secure, email addresses and signing (say) Danny to it will have spam robots generating emails for every possible combination of Dannyxxx… (one thing to consider when assigning the prime address). And they have other tricks

[Alex HapgoodParticipant @alexhapgood64562]

I have the same idea as Danny M, multiple email accounts. Mine are all with Hotmail which, may or may not be the best place. I have with some degree of success cut down the spam considerably by using numbers and characters in my email addresses. Instead of using, Hotel@hotmail.com, try #0t37@hotmail.com, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how few spam messages you get. Agreed it doesn't help the recipient recognize you but most times we don't send emails to strangers. Some other type of contact usually precedes the email.

As to the issue of dealing with the baddies out there might I suggest having to use your account number to post ads on the web site. It will only pose a problem for those who are occasional visitors or are just looking for another victim.

Alex

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Just a thought on privacy, a good many on the forum will remember when land line were through a manual exchange, and a number of parties on each line into the exchange (in my own case 10 on our line), To call you crank the magneto in a morse code pattern, ours was K _ . _, that was a signal that sounded in the other 9 households, and if anyone wanted to listen in they could. Compare that with the modern cell phone, and land line. I know it's a bit OT, but privacy has always been a problem with communications.

Ian S C

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 09/10/2014 01:45:34:

Posted by Danny M2Z on 08/10/2014 23:27:49:

One is for private, family and friends use only and they are requested not to pass it on.

 

Has it worked so far.

It actually has, for many years.

As an experiment, I have created a (valid) temporary email address that should excite the spambots. (Moderators please do NOT delete this for 7 days, as it is an experiment and all answers go to the spam bin via a 'hit counter'. It is going to fun to track the junk. Try oldgoldmine@dodo.com.au . If you get an answer DO NOT OPEN IT! It's probably not from me.

* Danny M *

 

Edited By Danny M2Z on 09/10/2014 12:09:48

Edited By Danny M2Z on 09/10/2014 12:10:44

Edited By Danny M2Z on 09/10/2014 12:11:32

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

My email address neil.wyatt@mytimemedia.com is all over this forum as a live link.

I get one or two emails for far-eastern manufacturers a week

I have 32 emails in my spam bin, dating back to May, none offensive, just people trying to sell me things like nitrile gloves, who think I'm an engineering company.

I have four email addresses, none of them gets very much spam, even the gmail I use for all the 'signing up'.

I think ISPs have got very good at stopping the vast majority of real spam, and we shouldn't worry too much as long as we have spam filters active.

Neil

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Originally, I had two email addresses with two different dial-up ISP's.These are both primary addresses. Also, no real problems at that time. Since then, with the advent of broadband thus allowing the demise of the dial-ups and the increase in spam, I took the decision that I would cease, as much as possible, usage of these primary addresses, and instead set up a number of secondary addresses all of which can easily be deleted without affecting either of the primary addresses. Currently, I actually have four primary addresses (how and why is more or less historical accident) which are kept quiet, and eight secondary addresses which are used for specific purposes such as engineering, computing, singing, home business stuff etc. Some of these secondary addresses are quite convoluted being made up of a few words strung together along with a number or two. The reason for this is that when I first started doing this, the first one I set up was businessman@…… This, from day one, attracted so much spam that I quickly changed it for something rather more difficult. This policy of long convoluted email addresses has been reasonably successful.

In addition, but probably for not much longer due to changes being made by my ISP, I also have a set of disposable email addresses. These are addresses of the abs-xyz@yahoo.co.uk style whereby "abc" is the actual email address whilst the "-xyz" is an addon which can be used to indicate the source of the incoming email. So for example, I could have (I don't, so don't try it) peter.gs-mew@yahoo.co.uk where the first part, obviously, is me, but mew indicates this forum. Now, as long as this forum, and only this forum, is given that address, I can immediately tell if it has been passed on to someone else. Currently I have 20-30 of these disposable addresses.

I also have both a mobile 'phone and a landline. Because of the spam etc on both 'phones, I have taken to refusing to give the mobile 'phone number it to anyone who requests it unless I can be reasonably assured of it's safety. I'm also requesting people such as the doctor or dentist to remove it from their lists. And, although it pains me say say this as an ex telecom technician, the landline is now ex-directory, and I have a 'phone system which in conjunction with Caller Display allows me to see who is calling, and optionally to bar up to 30 numbers. Finally, on occasion when I am being asked by some internet based firm for a number as a condition of their so-called service, and for which I do not think there is any justification for, I have started giving incorrect numbers such as missing out a digit, or a totally fictitious number. I do have to be careful though, and make sure that I'm not giving out a genuine number.

The point is that I am totally fed-up with my time being wasted by people wanting to sell worthless shares in some banana republic, or some clown trying to convince me that Microsoft can see into every computer in the world, or salesmen trying to flog double glazing/central heating/air conditioning/buy viagra or cialis etc.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

I have just one email address, I basically never get any spam, every now and again, some comes through as someone has sold or leaked my information or I've signed up for something knowingly as a necessary evil.

If they come through I just click on the bit at the bottom that says "unsubscribe" I'm taken to their website, and I enter my email (if required) and that's it. This tends to happen in bursts of 5 or 10 in about a week then it goes quiet for perhaps 3-6 months or more – I take the extra step of clicking the "report spam" button within my email client so my email provider can prevent further emails from that source reaching me or anyone else.

My email address is hotmail.co.uk and with the above system it often filters all other junk to my junk folder before it even reaches me (I don't think you can get these .co.uk accounts any more – its all outlook or .com now I think but they are essentially the same)

My PayPal email address is different but that's because it used to be shared,

On a real world note, I'm fed up of receiving non addressed junk from Royal Mail here in the UK, rather than opt out, I've started putting it all back in the post box! – they can carry it all around again, if everyone did this – I guarantee they'd stop delivering it – my personal approach, I'm sure it's not for everyone, maybe you even like the junk.

Edited By Russ B on 09/10/2014 13:54:54

[JonParticipant @jon]

Sign up with the TPS, you shouldn't by law get any UK based calls. If they phone you, they are breaking the law and you can report them. I manually block each UK caller and cant be far off the 200 I can store on phone.

This doesn't do a thing for the dozens a day of foreign cold calls, probably originating from not ticking a certain box or not taking a search engines offer up and selling your data on. I even have a call blocker from another Gov agency and separate registers £90 lifetime subscripton, they still get through and often the same Indian sales person selling for different companies.

Someones only got to drop an email addy out some where, spambots will pick it up and sell it off. Trouble is that back fires, 1 sell turns in to 3, 3 turns in to 9, 9 turns in to 81 a day over a period of months.

Got to be so damn careful I always look at senders address don't be surprised to see a banks legit email address that's been hacked in to with the usual click here. Have had three emails within a minute from separate senders using the same legit banks email address, even paypal.

Both phone and email are business and residential, you know what that means mid job. Gave up years ago at least I get some sort of kick out of it but its what its turned me in to – angry voice hello "What you selling" aaagh but "Not interested don't call again, piss off" on a good day. Point is they are breaking the law by phoning and interrupting what I was doing, I may scrap hours of work upon returning, who knows. Reporting these companies to the various Gov agencies do absolutely nothing.

[magpieParticipant @magpie]

RussB, that "non addressed junk mail" we all get from Royal Mail is what no doubt helps to keep all your other important mail being delivered to your door. I don't find it too much trouble to walk from the front door to the recycle bin where all that stuff goes. Should Royal Mail ever fail for whatever reason, can you see any of the other carriers ever providing the same service ?

Cheers Derek.

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Derek, a few years ago, prices were very different to what they are now, lately because of this I haven't used royal mail to post anything more than basic letters here and there, I find these other couriers will come to my door and collect, with a sticky label in hand for no more than half the price, usually a lot less. To add to that, the last thing of value Royal Mail broke (a £350 graphcis card) they inspected it in photos, collected and inspected in person, and then deemed my packaging TO GOOD to have allowed them to damage it despite the completely crumpled corner.

They gave me 6 postage stamps as compensation which didn't even cover how much I paid them to smash it up in the first place. When I tried to appeal they quoted chapter and verse that they excluded from having to pay for loss or damages anyway. Just to clarify, I had paid them for insurance upto £500 which was clearly not worth the paper it was written on.

Honestly Derek, with the greatest respect to the men and women out there doing the hard work and delivering whatever the weather and the shop owners who are struggling and now being forced to close down, (a friend of the family owns a full PO branch), I wouldn't piss on the company if it were on fire, and neither would my friend who runs the fully licenced tax and exchange office.

Like so many good companies, they're not what they used to be in my opinion.

There is a very, very good reason why there are so many courier companies popping up these days, there is plenty of room for improvement while still profiting. There are more UPS access points in my area than there are post offices, and I can post a 25kg 3PH motor for £20 insured, RoyalMail wouldn't do it for double that even uninsured.

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Oh my goodness…… I am whining a lot latey! I blame the man flu that I've been spreading for about a week now.

Sorry, I'll try to stay on topic before I embarrass myself anymore :-S

[magpieParticipant @magpie]

I to am sorry to have gone of topic, BUT, Russ I quite agree that when it comes to parcels there are very many who offer a much better service, however I am referring to things like , bank statements, hospital appointments, DVLA reminders, Etc. I notice that at least one of the big logistics companies already unload their letters onto Royal Mail, and it is this service that the others don't want. I cannot think of any other service that would deliver a letter from Cornwall to Shetland for about 60 pence. I have no connection whatsoever with Royal Mail but I would hate to lose that particular service.

Cheers Derek.

P.S. Get well soon Russ, your ailment is a bloody rotten one.

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