Plans for updating the archaic forum?

[Lee Jones 6Participant @leejones6]

Well this seems to have attracted more attention than I thought it would!

It's interesting to hear that this has been discussed before. That's a telltale sign that something isn't right.

One thing we should straighten out; I think most of you are confusing layout/formatting with functionality.

The layout/formatting (pretty colours, simple templating, large text) is fine. It's easy to read and navigate.

With regards to the "it's free, so take what is given" comments. That's a terrible angle to take. My proper job is working with FOSS (Free and Open Source Software). Just because it's free, it doesn't mean people aren't free to comment or make suggestion for improvement. The great thing about Open Source is that if you don't like it, you can physically make the changes and submit them for inclusion. That's not so easy with closed systems like these.

I'm struggling to figure out what platform this forum is based on. Is it bespoke?

There are so many; professional free to use, actively supported, regularly updated forum software packages out there, it seems like an odd decision to roll/maintain your own.

Okay, so the OP was kind of fired from the hip. Mostly born out of frustration whist actually using the platform.

Here is something more considered – the issues at hand:

• Reply box
  • Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's CKEDITOR – is it an old version? It's super clunky
  • Over-rides web browser behaviours
    • Right click (Qhat's that paste thing about? How is that helpful?)
    • Spell checking *really frustrating*
      • You have to copy words out to Google and back to amend them
  • No preview function
    • It's a lottery as to how this post will be formatted once it goes live!
  • The odd red CR/LF (carriage return/line feed) line doesn't work on mobile devices
  • Inserting an empty line between things like images requires a little dance
    • You have to add an image, then a new line, then a new image
      • If you forget, adding one retroactively is a real pain
  • Splitting up/editing quotes is equally as painful
• Forum behaviour
  • No multi-quote
    • You can fudge it with a series of ['quote', copy/paste, repeat], but it's arduous
  • Photo upload
    • You can only upload 5 images at a time
      • Worse than that, in reality it times-out if you attempt more than 4
  • Only 1 device at a time supported
    • If you flip between phone and computer (which I do often), you have to re-login each time *sigh*

I'm sure there are a bunch more issues which have slipped my mind presently, but this should be enough to chew on for a while.

I appreciate that you feel protective over this platform, but please bear in mind that I make these comments, which I think are justified, with the intention of making the forum easier to use for everyone. Not just to change something you've become accustomed to just for the sake of it.

[Lee Jones 6Participant @leejones6]

– you don't contribute anything to the platform other than hope for an ego trip posting what you did today

– it costs you naught

– Do you complain to Google about something on their platform that niggles you?

– If the platform really gets your goat, you are free to go elsewhere …

– Makes one consider what photo you are putting into the text, and that it is worth it

– Every other site has its compromises – as does life.

Wow! I genuinely can't think of anything to say.

[Rob McSweeneyParticipant @robmcsweeney81205]

Imho, this is the best of the forums I visit.

Clear and straightforward to navigate, doesn't take an age to load like some do, and not plastered with adverts.

I fail to see what Mr Jones is objecting to.

Please don't change it.

Rob

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

If you have a compelling urge to improve things then feel free to go and help the poor and needy

edit: and the grumpys in here aren't shy about it if there IS a problem with anything

Access to the digital platform and snail mail deliveries seem to be an issue for some members

Edited By Ady1 on 11/11/2020 08:55:52

[Lee Jones 6Participant @leejones6]

Posted by Rob McSweeney on 11/11/2020 08:46:28:

Imho, this is the best of the forums I visit.

Clear and straightforward to navigate, doesn't take an age to load like some do, and not plastered with adverts.

I fail to see what Mr Jones is objecting to.

Please don't change it.

I think this is going to happen a lot – please see a couple of posts above.

In fact, maybe it's better to start a new thread with my second post as the OP?

[john halfpennyParticipant @johnhalfpenny52803]

I like the forum as it is, and it is a little better than four others that I regularly use. Upgrades often mean that more computing power is required and/or more bandwidth, but with no great benefit or functionality to the user.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I agree with Lee. Specific things I dislike are the idiosyncratic spell checker, and the inability to upload any files that aren't jpegs. I do a huge amount of online document editing and having one site where the spell check works differently from every other system is a real pain. And wouldn't it be useful to be able to upload pdfs, or dxfs or (heaven forfend) g-code? I also use the Groups.io site (Synchronome1 group) and it's significantly better.

[JAParticipant @ja]

Is this "change for change's sake"? What would we loose with such a change? Access to old but very useful postings, perhaps?

Leave it as it is. It works. I have seen the introduction of systems because they are new and sexy that fail or don't deliver too many times.

JA

[Gary WoodingParticipant @garywooding25363]

I'm pretty satisfied with the way it is, but would like to be able to upload PDFs as well as JPGs.

[Lee Jones 6Participant @leejones6]

If the migration was done correctly, nothing would be lost.

No one is suggesting 'new and sexy', only 'works better and less painful'.

Resistance to *any* change just because you're used to something is a very limiting trait.

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

I agree with what appears to be the majority view. Works fine for me, leave it as it is!

[Adam MaraParticipant @adammara]

Be careful what you wish for!

Many, many years ago I was a member of the P&O Cruises forum, run and owned by P&O, it too got a lot of stick.

In the end they took the simple solution, they just closed it down, what's the point in financing something when all you get is critcism.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

One or two people refer to "flickering" on the top of the screen. I do not see that flickering so do not know what it is, but I find the rapidly-changing ads a bit irritating. It is not the presence of the advertising that bothers me – they pay for the forum – but the way they change.

Let's be grateful that despite its few niggles this forum lets us concentrate on its contents rather than how to operate it; and it is free of the massive "cookie" (biscuit?! ) barriers that now make Google, Youtube and some other major sites so inconvenient I no longer use them. (They are claimed to give you some control over site's trade in your details, but turning certain ones, or all, off can lock you out.)

One user here complains it is difficult to use when switching back and forth between phone and computer. Errr, why? I have no "smart"'-'phone so am probably missing something, but I am puzzled why one might "need" do that anyway other than when transferring files, e.g. photos. I would consider that a matter of personal use, not a software shortcoming.

"A few niggles"? Well, one is the control codes for those wretched face symbols, meaning you have to try to remember adding spaces or using words when typing dimensions. Do we really need those symbols anyway? I would say no: there are punctuation-mark equivalents you can use instead.

Otherwise the OP seems only bothering far more about how the forum works behind the screen than its purpose and users' contributions.

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

Posted by Lee Jones 6 on 11/11/2020 08:29:04:

Well this seems to have attracted more attention than I thought it would!

It's interesting to hear that this has been discussed before. That's a telltale sign that something isn't right.

That's a telltale sign that something isn't right – For 3 people out of 30 so far….

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Same old same old from day one. No post ref numbers. A lot easier to quote a number instead of overloading posts with endless repeats of photo blocks. Quotation system is ridiculous and inability of some to orientate photos. Apart from these, no problem. Did take a looooooong time to sort text disappearing under adverts so not holding breath for any changes. "If it ain't broke don't fix it"? It limps along but the ability to add a splint relies on web designers ability.

Regards Ian.

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

As a platform for a bunch of guys who like playing with creaky, old machinery, this forum software must have a lot going for it.

[gerry maddenParticipant @gerrymadden53711]

I visit for the engineering content and its never occurred to me once in several years of use that the slickness of the format of this site might not be up to the latest standards.

But as a user of many other platforms and systems, I know I hate the way operators like to keep changing things in the interests of "efficiency". Making changes is obviously fun and interesting for them, and keeps them employed, but its a pain in the A for the occasional users that suddenly discovers something no longer works the way it did before and needs relearning. When such things happen repeatedly that becomes a big inefficiency for me.

I don't want a digital watch with 15 million functions on it at my age, no matter how much better little ones tell me it is. Lets not turn this site into one of these unless it really is broken. I'm not sure it is at present.

[Lee Jones 6Participant @leejones6]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 11/11/2020 09:29:19:

One user here complains it is difficult to use when switching back and forth between phone and computer. Errr, why? I have no "smart"'-'phone so am probably missing something, but I am puzzled why one might "need" do that anyway other than when transferring files, e.g. photos. I would consider that a matter of personal use, not a software shortcoming.

Just because it's not the way 'you' use the platform, doesn't mean it's a personal use issue.

It's funny to me that you don't understand the use-case:

Sometimes I reply from my computer (when I'm at work), and other times I use my phone (when on the couch).

Uploading photos is also easier from my phone. Whereas long posts are better authored on the computer.

Posted by Joseph Noci 1 on 11/11/2020 09:31:34:

Posted by Lee Jones 6 on 11/11/2020 08:29:04:

Well this seems to have attracted more attention than I thought it would!

It's interesting to hear that this has been discussed before. That's a telltale sign that something isn't right.

That's a telltale sign that something isn't right – For 3 people out of 30 so far….

The vast majority of the posts so far have been pertaining to looks and familiarity. Let's not change that!

My points are solely in regard to broken functionality and platform limitations/oddities.

I'm not suggesting we throw the baby out with the bath water – just fix what is broken and limited.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

My local council has been "improving" things for 30 years, making vast amounts of personal wealth in the process

curiously enough, things are not one jot better than they were 30 years ago and in many cases they are a lot worse

It's the oldest snake oil salesmans word in the snake oil book

"improve"

Current big UK "improvement" is a 200 billion quid HS2 train only the wealthy will be able to travel on

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

I don’t find any problems with the site, there are many “commercial” sites software that I find very awkward to use and these belong to major retailers who you would expect to have the latest in operating software. I would urge don’t change anything on this site it all works and those of us of advancing years are reluctant to change the way we do things.
Dave W

[JAParticipant @ja]

The one improvement that could be made is that users must have a published profile.

JA

[StueeeeParticipant @stueeee]

Posted by Joseph Noci 1 on 11/11/2020 09:31:34:

Posted by Lee Jones 6 on 11/11/2020 08:29:04:

Well this seems to have attracted more attention than I thought it would!

It's interesting to hear that this has been discussed before. That's a telltale sign that something isn't right.

That's a telltale sign that something isn't right – For 3 people out of 30 so far….

Perhaps any others who don't think the current arrangements are pure distilled perfection don't want to get flamed in this thread by those who do….

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

This forum is great as it is. Simple clean layout what more do you want ? There will always be some difference of opinion as to how the forum looks or behaves and that is true for every forum. There are things that some users want and others deplore. All in all this is one of the best forums that I use. HMEM as an example, has flashing ads plastered all over the screen many of which are not even relevant to our hobby which I find very annoying.

The only thing I would say is missing is the ability of the Mods to pin posts such as "What lathe or What mill" or "A guide to your 1st Lathe or Mill" to the Posts section so they are always visible and give the ppl who need it a place to start their search and guide them as to the questions they should ask.

AS for the OP's "Honestly, without exaggeration, it's the worst platform I've worked with." What work needs doing ? Open post, read comments, think a bit, post comment, or start new post, comment, sit back & wait for replies, job done not much working to do IMHO.

Thanks to ME for hosting the forum the advertisers for funding & the Mods who keep it running.

regards

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I have been saying almost since I joined 11 years and 3385 posts ago that the inability to upload other file formats is a serious shortcoming for a site that is about engineering where visual communications is essential. Never get a response explaining why it can't be made possible. Back then the search function was laughable – thanks to Neil a few years back they at least added a Google site search function.

[Lee Jones 6Participant @leejones6]

Posted by Oldiron on 11/11/2020 10:12:13:

This forum is great as it is. Simple clean layout what more do you want ? There will always be some difference of opinion as to how the forum looks or behaves and that is true for every forum. There are things that some users want and others deplore. All in all this is one of the best forums that I use. HMEM as an example, has flashing ads plastered all over the screen many of which are not even relevant to our hobby which I find very annoying.

The only thing I would say is missing is the ability of the Mods to pin posts such as "What lathe or What mill" or "A guide to your 1st Lathe or Mill" to the Posts section so they are always visible and give the ppl who need it a place to start their search and guide them as to the questions they should ask.

AS for the OP's "Honestly, without exaggeration, it's the worst platform I've worked with." What work needs doing ? Open post, read comments, think a bit, post comment, or start new post, comment, sit back & wait for replies, job done not much working to do IMHO.

Annoyingly I can't split this quote up and reply to your points individually!

P1:

This is about looks and layout again. The layout is (still) fine!

P2:

Another "the site is perfect accept this one thing" comment.

It's the collection of these 'just one things' that I'm bringing (at least attempting to) to your attention.

P3:

Yes, the site *works* (with frustrations that I and others have mentioned). This is not a very high standard.

There are issues with it which I think deserve attention – that is all I am suggesting.

Edited By Lee Jones 6 on 11/11/2020 10:19:50

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