Pickling acid

[colin hawesParticipant @colinhawes85982]

[colin hawesParticipant @colinhawes85982]

So apparently we will now need a licence to possess and use sulphuric acid brought about by the tendency of some of todays youth chucking it at people. I use it for quick cleaning copper quite often although I know there are other less satisfactory ways of preparing and cleaning copper. Colin

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

Hi Colin last week bought a container of brick cleaner. No problem and works great cleaning after silver soldering part.

David

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Well theres always work arounds with chemistry right?

**LINK**

Not only that but acetic acid, or vinegar should work pretty well enough for this.

Michael W

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

The suggestions to us battery acid seem reasonable enough if you can get it but don't be tempted to use old acid as it will be contaminated with lead and probably result in poor solder adhesion.

Brian

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

I tend to use heated citric acid (easy to obtain in the UK, but apparently marks you out as a drug manufacturer in the US) or nitric acid (apparently that makes me a terrorist)…

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Just tried and failed to find an up-to-date statement on the position. But:

It has been necessary to have a licence to buy Sulphuric Acid > 15% since 2015. 'From 1 July 2018, members of the public who want to acquire or import sulfuric acid above 15% weight by weight will also require an explosives precursors and poisons (EPP) licence.' This is nothing to do with youths throwing Drain Cleaner. More likely it's to make sure that acid users are fully aware that the material can be and is used to make illegal explosives. Terrorism.
There's been a voluntary restriction in place whereby stores will not sell corrosives like Drain Cleaner to anyone under 18. I think, but cannot prove, that legislation was enacted recently to make that a legal requirement and also to make it criminal to carry a corrosive substance without a legitimate reason for having it. I don't think we elder statesmen will have any bother taking it home to a blocked drain or pickling bath. A young idiot caught with it in a nightclub, or on the street without cause, will get banged up. What might screw us is the kind of BF who thinks Health and Safety has gone mad and happily supplies corrosives to minors, or does it for money, or hasn't a clue what's going on. If corrosives continue to get into the wrong hands, likely the law will be tightened again.

Dave

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

You could buy conc H2SO4 through amazon last year but not now. Brick cleaner is Hydrochloric acid and I have yet to try it but im in dire need of 5 gallons so am ordering some now. I have several gallons of conc citric acid which I have found to be next to useless for my application (pickling boilers on a regular basis).

[pa4c pa4cParticipant @pa4cpa4c85075]

Just to add to your woes, this from the Government Press Release today with regard to their tackling violence and knife crime (yes I know):

The Home Office has also added sulphuric acid to the list of regulated explosives precursors that come under the Poisons Act 1972. This will mean that members of the public will require a licence to acquire, possess and use the substance.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

So every person in the UK who has a lead-acid battery in their car, burglar alarm, golf cart or mobility scooter will become a criminal on 1st July?

I can see no exemption listed…

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

Good to see our glorious government has thought this through with all their usual thoroughness.

Regards,

Richard.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 08/04/2018 21:39:48:

So every person in the UK who has a lead-acid battery in their car, burglar alarm, golf cart or mobility scooter will become a criminal on 1st July?

I can see no exemption listed…

.

… and yes, the concentration 'threshold' is specified:

[quote]

Amendments to Schedule 1A to the Act

 

2.—(1) In Part 1 of Schedule 1A to the Act (regulated explosives precursors)(4)—

 

(a)in column 1 of the table, at the end, insert—

• “Sulfuric acid (CAS RN 7664-93-9)”;

 

(b)in column 2 of the table, at the end, insert—

• “15% w/w”.

 

[/quote]

 

Source: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/cy/uksi/2018/451/made

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/cy/uksi/2018/451/made

.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: Here's the Guidance:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/supplying-explosives-precursors/supplying-explosives-precursors-and-poison

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 09/04/2018 09:50:41

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Checked the above reference gov.uk/ Poisons and it looks like if your rhubarb has a strong enough oxalic Acid content then it may be covered by the legislation concerning poisons!

Dave W

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

No problems here. **LINK**

30 % sulphuric acid is still available in my local supermarket although they have moved it to the top shelf.

Russell

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Samsaranda on 09/04/2018 10:02:46:

Checked the above reference gov.uk/ Poisons and it looks like if your rhubarb has a strong enough oxalic Acid content then it may be covered by the legislation concerning poisons!

Dave W

That's long been the case. Many plants are poisonous. Mostly we avoid the most dangerous ones, and know not to feed dogs chocolate. Fortunately rhubarb stalks don't contain much Oxalic Acid, most of it is in the leaves and we rarely eat any. Anyone think it shouldn't be illegal to process plants for the purpose of concentrating a poison? Often It's not difficult to extract poison from plant products. Beware angry chemists offering pie.

In practice it is really hard to write laws preventing people extracting something really nasty like Ricin that don't also land heavily on innocent activities. What might be fun is to present the establishment with a really tough one. Hundreds of millions of addicts must have tobacco. Supply is regulated but big-profit commerce lobbies powerfully against further restrictions. It's also a very easy product to tax, and the government take is substantial. What would happen if terrorists started lacing food products with concentrated Nicotine obtained from legally bought tobacco? (Nicotine is very poisonous, smokers only get a tiny proportion of it when tobacco burns. )

Truth is governments can only control up to a point. It's possible to reduce the risk of Sulphuric Acid being misused, so they have. Prevention is always better than cure. But there are many, many other misuses where politicians either pass token legislation or kick the can down the road. I'm not entirely unsympathetic: you can't ban knives outright because everyone needs them.

Dave

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 09/04/2018 10:27:46:

No problems here. **LINK**

30 % sulphuric acid is still available in my local supermarket although they have moved it to the top shelf.

Russell

.

I hope the bottles are rated for a 2 metre drop !!

MichaelG.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 09/04/2018 11:06:11:

I hope the bottles are rated for a 2 metre drop !!

No problem, the French being shorter than the English the top shelf is usually only 1.8 m!

Russell

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 09/04/2018 10:49:34:

Posted by Samsaranda on 09/04/2018 10:02:46:

Checked the above reference gov.uk/ Poisons and it looks like if your rhubarb has a strong enough oxalic Acid content then it may be covered by the legislation concerning poisons!

Dave W

Truth is governments can only control up to a point. It's possible to reduce the risk of Sulphuric Acid being misused, so they have. Prevention is always better than cure. But there are many, many other misuses where politicians either pass token legislation or kick the can down the road. I'm not entirely unsympathetic: you can't ban knives outright because everyone needs them.

Dave

It's an age old truth that any tool can be used and abused. And what people can do about this has to be met with a sense of proportion and obviously keep people safe. It has already gotten out of hand. 

Michael W

 

 

 

Edited By Michael-w on 09/04/2018 13:13:41

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I bought some milk yesterday in the supermarket but what recipe needs sulphuric acid such that it is stocked along with coffee and sugar? Something like brick cleaner being available in B&Q is understandable but in Asda? (where some stores in the westcountry don't even stock lime pickle)

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 09/04/2018 12:57:38:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 09/04/2018 11:06:11:

I hope the bottles are rated for a 2 metre drop !!

No problem, the French being shorter than the English the top shelf is usually only 1.8 m!

Russell

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Has anyone actually tried to apply for a license for a small amount? And who do you apply to?

Brian

[Johnboy25Participant @johnboy25]

I’d better rush out to get some H2SO4 before it unobtainable….

**LINK**

Better take my safety specs and arm length rubber gloves – this stuff is 91% conc. it sez on the label.🙂

John

[Johnboy25Participant @johnboy25]

Multiple posting – again! Please ignore. 😳

Edited By Johnboy25 on 09/04/2018 15:55:37

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

So what's wrong with Dry salts then as an alternative.

I suspect that Sulphuric acid (diluted from concentrated) was always used because of it's availability rather than it's efficacy. GLR have been selling dry salts for years as it's simpler and safer to ship.

regards Martin

[MonomanParticipant @monoman]

That rather depends on what you mean by 'Dry Salts.

Assuming you mean GLR kennions I can only find Dry Acid Pickling Crystals.

A toatlly unsatisfactory description. No indication of what acid or concentration. It may contain substances not complying with REACH. Who can tell?

[Author]

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