Penny-Pinching

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I found this astonishing:

Fake Wires:

https://youtu.be/15sMogK3vTI?feature=shared

 

MichaelG.

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[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

It’s wire Mike, but not as we know it !

I wonder how many people have been caught out by this in one form or another ? Noel.

[David Millar 3Participant @davidmillar3]

Not quite as bad as Micheal’s example, but a few years ago, I lost an hour I’ll never get back.

My wife’s car had a flat battery so I broke out my brand new set of jump leads. Hooked them up but no joy. I assumed her battey was very low and needed a while to recover. I let my car idle for a while.

Still no good. Perhaps my croc clips weren’t sitting right. Adjusted and left to idle again.

Nope. No improvement.

I dug deaper and found the croc clip crimp connectors had been crimped onto the cable insulation. No hope of them working as they were constructed.

Crimp connectors teased open, insulation stripped back, and croc clips crimped back on properly. Hey Presto. Job’s a good un.
 

[Michael Smith 15Participant @michaelsmith15]

Try running a magnet over cheap  copper washers . Many are copper plated steel.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

As is modern GB money.

Anyone fancy waving a magnet near Mini lathe wiring? ;O)

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Ah yes, winter draws on ! cheap Jump leads ! I have seen some that look really hefty till you look at the conductor, may be 2.5sqmm multistrand. These will work but need the donor vehicle to be run at fast idle for about 10 mins to put life into the flat battery. IF you can get at the engine connect the – neg to the engine block. Depending on how flat, it may be no good trying to start straight away, the leads will not pass the current, just be patient !

Welding lead makes superb jump leads ! Noel.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Telephone wires from the pole to the house normally are copper coated steel. But that’s so they are are stronger than pure copper and can be run with a flatter catenary.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

One leg copper one leg galvanised. Dropwire gets tensioned by hand unlike the old open cad- copper wire

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

The wires on poles next to railway lines in days of yore were often steel. Not worth pinching.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

In Ghana (West Africa) while sorting out many issues with computers and power at the school The wife ans I helped out at (She is an educator) I came across faulty mians extension socket strip leads. Being an ex British colony they (mostly) use the familiar “13A” UK plugs. The cable on the leads looked good. Thick, marked 1.75mm nice and flexible (but it’s warm there). Checks with a multimeter showed high resistance on the neutral.

Took the top off the plug and all looked good. screws tight, bright stranded copper lookd right for 1.75mm. So opened up the socket end. All looked good there too but no continuity through the neutral. Checked the length of the cable for damage but found none. Suspecting a fatigue fracture at the cable clamp I cut the plug off 6″ down the cable. Continuity to the cut off plug was OK but socket still open. So did the sane at the socket. Similar result. I now have a new looking, undamaged cable with an open circuit neutral. How odd.

So I cut it in half and found the faulty half. Cut that in half etc until I had about a foot of faulty 3 core flex. I stripped the outer cover off and examined the neutral. I found a lump in it. Cut into it and got a pile of white dust…..

Long story short the conductors were copper plated aluminium and suffer from localised corrosion. This is probably from impurities. Needless to say they were all cut up and binned. They were a fire waiting to happen. You would think making copper coated aluminium wire wasn’t worth it but if you are using any old re-cycled aluminum and making 100’s of kilometers of the stuff it’s a big saving over copper.

[PeroParticipant @pero]

Curses Michael

Now you have got me running around the house and workshop with a high power magnet searching for copper coated iron wires!

So far none to report, including some heavy duty cable recently purchased from China for low voltage use, so it’s not all bad news. However it’s something to be aware of if using cables for high current applications or other uses where low resistance is required.

It also set me to wondering if there is any connection with the incidence of fires with lithium batteries on charge, as the charger leads can be carrying high currents, up to 50 Amps DC being not uncommon.

So thanks for the heads up. I will be more diligent with my testing procedures in future. It’s easy to check. Just a matter of remembering to do so.

Pero

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Even copper coin is magnetic !  That started a long time before these “fake” wires.

Bob

[Speedy Builder5]

On Speedy Builder5 Said:

Even copper coin is magnetic !  That started a long time before these “fake” wires.

Bob

… and the fact of its introduction was well-documented.

There would be little point putting coins into circulation that are intrinsically worth more than their face-value.

MichaelG.

[Robert Atkinson 2]

On Robert Atkinson 2 Said:

…
Long story short the conductors were copper plated aluminium and suffer from localised corrosion. This is probably from impurities. Needless to say they were all cut up and binned. They were a fire waiting to happen. You would think making copper coated aluminium wire wasn’t worth it but if you are using any old re-cycled aluminum and making 100’s of kilometers of the stuff it’s a big saving over copper.

Not unusual.  I found Aluminium wire in a 1970s British made washing machine motor.  In the 1950’s the US attempted wiring homes with Aluminium on a large scale, only to find after several years it tends to corrode and cause fires.   Reason, high cost of Copper at the time due to depletion of known sources.   This is on the cards again, not many large deposits of Copper ore left to be exploited.

Aluminium and steel are used by the grid for strength; being strung between pylons and blown about makes Copper a poor choice.  Strength is also why some HF coax cables are copper-plated – skin effect.

But of course, sensible ideas are misused or mis-sold.  Jack the Lad is always a risk.  My advice: foolish to buy too cheap and still expect top quality.

Does copper plated iron wire in a hobbyists crocodile clip jumper wire matter?  Not much, unless milli-ohms are important.   Annoying to be let down by a duff connector when it does though…

Dave

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

My big 400A welder has aluminium wound transformers, YES I know it was cheap ! There’s nothing pretty about it- the star point is a bulldog grip. But at £25 would you turn it down ? I’ve had it for 20 years, what a machine ! Noel

[peak4Participant @peak4]

I’ve noticed copper covered ferrous wire used in various cheap imported stuff when it’s stopped working; copper has vanished, leaving behind a rusty streak inside the plastic tat.
Solar garden lights are one example.
Yes some varieties of telephone drop wire are copper plated steel, but it’s high quality stuff and specifically designed for a purpose, but I really wouldn’t want to find the wire Michael did in anything purporting to be test gear.
After all the first thing to test when looking for a fault elsewhere, is the test gear itself.

Aluminium wire, whilst certainly used for power distribution successfully, is causing major problems with the underground telephone network. It was originally intended for POTS (Plain Old Telephone System) voice network, and raised issues, due to noisy lines caused by corrosion, when fax machines & dial-up modems were introduced.
It’s still referred to as the copper cable network, but some remains aluminium and is gradually being made redundant due to the expansion of FTTP (Fibre To The Premises)

Aluminium was used extensively in the 1970s due to the high price of copper at that time. It has a slightly greater loss at broadband frequencies causing a slight drop in connection speed, but the real problems arise with noisy lines due to corrosion.

Bill

[peak4]

On peak4 Said:

 

Aluminium was used extensively in the 1970s due to the high price of copper at that time. It has a slightly greater loss at broadband frequencies causing a slight drop in connection speed, but the real problems arise with noisy lines due to corrosion.

Bill

And not just for telephony. When we moved into a substantial house in Cornwall in the 1960s, my father decided to rewire the whole place as part of the renovations they were doing – it had originally had electrification at the turn of the 19th century starting with cells then a genny and wired with a mixture including rubber and some silk insulated wire….
Dad contracted with a company in London who promised a re-wiring plan and kit if you supplied physical plans and your desired sockets, lights, etc and then shipped a massive kit to thus DiY…..goodness knows how far that model would go today.
However when the pack turned up, the mains wiring was all aluminium and I believe there were instructions for an annual maintenance consisting of loosening and re-tightening every screw terminal.
We visited Cornwall a few years back and drove past the place – still standing and no signs of fires – hopefully they rewired the place in the last 50 years though.
Simon

[Michael CallaghanParticipant @michaelcallaghan68621]

Please don’t expect good quality wire in cars today. Given the amount of technology in cars today you would think that using quality wire was a must. However profit comes before quality these days and a far cheaper alloy wire is now used. Add that to the vast amount of plastic found on engine parts and is it any wonder that cars break down or that engine light keeps coming on.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Came home one night and saw that the neighbours overhead line tap was arcing, he was out so I called the supplier. They sent out a team with an access platform to see to it, got talking to the fellows and they told me that they have no end of trouble with the ali ferrules they now use as we are near the coast sea water and all. The old copper ones were little trouble, copper ferrule versus cost of the team at 22:30 at night = No brainer to me ? Noel.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

When father in law was serving as an electrician with the RAF in Suez, He had to resort to running overhead power lines with barbed wire instead of copper. Otherwise the locals would steal it.

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