Pea shooters illegal

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Another great bit of UK weapon control. Had an email from neighborhood watch about a weapons surrender scheme. I clicked the link to find that apparently it will be illegal have a pea shooter in your own home next year. I didn't even know that it's already illegal to have one in public, make or sell one (no one told ebay)
Yes it's a kids toy, but it meets the description here
**LINK**
"the weapon sometimes known as a ‘blowpipe’ or ‘blow gun’, being a hollow tube out of which hard pellets or darts are shot by the use of breath;"
This one, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pea-Shooter/264782839125 even comes with ammunition! About the only valid reason for having one would be if you were a wildlife vet and were using it to administer drugs.
The new law "Offensive Weapons Act 2019" **LINK**
Now makes it illegal to own, even in private, a bunch of "weapons" that previously it was only illegal to carry in public, sell, buy or make. I can understand and agree with keeping weapons off the street and out of the hands of criminals but this seems to just be a way of making conviction easier as they don't have to prove how you got it, just having it (there are some exemptions like antiques or work use) is an offence that you can be locked up for.
So if you are in the UK and have any unusual knives, batons, swords, throwing stars etc. you should have a look at this:
**LINK**
If you have a at least three peashooters you bought before 2018 they are supposed to give you £14 each for them.

Robert G8RPI.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Good job they don't come to the county where I live!!

[Peter SpinkParticipant @peterspink21088]

I despair on this issue.

In our kitchen we have many 'offensive weapons' from knives to rolling pins.

In my workshop I have many 'offensive weapons' from chisels to hammers.

In my garden shed I have many 'offensive weapons' from spades to garden forks.

On my drive we have 'offensive weapons' (cars)

A weapon only becomes 'offensive' when it is used by someone with offensive tendencies.

That is the issue we need to address.

 

 

Edited By Peter Spink on 11/12/2020 22:49:21

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

So buying a copper pipe will also be illigal as you can blow a dart out of it

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

…and yet they still manage to kill each other with amazing regularity…

Covid must have slowed the knife brigade down but it's not been much good for saving lives

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Posted by bernard towers on 11/12/2020 22:37:10:

Good job they don't come to the county where I live!!

Is there a lot of pea shooter related crime?

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Deleted. V8.

Edited By V8Eng on 11/12/2020 23:23:25

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

Is a pea a hard pellet or dart? Where does it fall in the scale between diamond and talc? What is the definition of hard. This has clearly been written by someone who does not really know what hard is. When I was at school BIC pen tubes and rice were commonly used to get round the "no pea shooters in school" rules.

Martin C

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

Ignorant bureaucrats rule the world. Imbecile presidents, etc., are largely irrelevant…

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

So, under the definition of a dangerous weapon,Section (n),

A starter cord on a mower being a weight on one end of a cord and a hand grip on the other. is now illegal.

[BOB BLACKSHAW 1Participant @bobblackshaw1]

A rolled up newspaper is a good weapon that can give a injury.

Bob

[Guy LambParticipant @guylamb68056]

I for one fully support the ban on these vile weapons, does no one recall the spate bank hold ups in 'The Smoke' a few years ago? Hardened criminal said to be "packing shooters" robbed banks, building societies and chip shops * (the latter probably to stock up with ammunition).

Guy

* Explanation for Southerners: Fish and Chip shops in the north sell mushy pees, a delicacy made from dried legumes. Sometimes mistaken for guacamole.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Never forget the dangers of batter pudding hurlers:

pgk

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

The first electricians workshop I was in as an apprentice overlooked the unloading area for coiled steel for the press shop, the lorry drivers would sit in the cab waiting to be unloaded, one of the electricians had a long Tufnol tube that made a very accurate blow pipe and he put it to good effect firing small balls of dum dum at the drives cabs. A BIC biro tube and a mouthful of Pearl barley made an excellent rapid fire pea shooter, of course the mess on the floor soon resulted in them being banned from our school.

Mike

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

I well remember using a length of 1/2" copper tube to shoot pieces of chalk across the with of the machine shop to catch the old charghand on the ear ! He never worked out where they came from, since we were "too far away" to be suspect. So yes,they should be banned, along with rolled up papers, skipping ropes, skateboards ect. The list is endless, and dont even mention workshops !! screwdrivers, hammers, even drills [cordless, of course ] !

May the Powers protect us from ourselves and each other

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Having carried out a risk assessment, it seems likely that cups, saucers, and plates should be made illegal, since they can be used as missiles.

Most certainly kettles or saucepans since they could be used to hurl hot liquids at victims.

Come to think of it, chairs are pretty dangerous!

And I forgot sharpened pencils or pens as weapons

As dear old Rudi Mischetlager used to say, "Common sense isn't that common"

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 12/12/2020 10:38:44

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Is this fake news? Robert's first link dates back to 1988, in which a statutory instrument bans a whole bunch of manufactured weapons like knuckledusters, death stars, sword-sticks, butterfly knives, and hand-claws. Surely a good thing?

The blowpipe in question isn't a children's toy, or a random bit of copper pipe. It's the adult weapon. The boundary between toy and weapon isn't crystal clear. A pea-shooter propelling curare tipped darts is a lethal weapon, whereas a South American blowpipe loaded with peas isn't. And, as we know, it's not difficult to extemporise weapons, for example by weighting a stick with a stone. There are many ordinary domestic items that make good weapons. To deal with this, courts consider intent as well as possession.

Robert's second link is to the Offensive Weapons Act of 2019. It extends and clarifies, adding defences as well as tightening up on ownership. For example, it's a defence to own a sword for recognised religious or ceremonial purposes.

In the UK the Crown Prosecution Service test alleged offences and evidence before prosecuting to ensure the Court will take it seriously. Intent is important, and it can be challenged all the way back to the original: what did the government intend, what did MP's understand the intent to be, and did the police interpret the intent correctly?

Anyone expecting their home to be raided by Armed Police with a Warrant to look for illegal kiddie pea-shooters is in for a disappointment. Even more disappointed if a martyr to freedom expects his day in court and a heavy prison sentence.

Police raiding a home workshop manufacturing blow-pipes for sale to drug dealers from plumbing accessories is a different story!

The British system (Scots and English) has a series of checks and balances to protect citizens from misinterpreted and over-zealously applied law. Not perfect, but I'm not aware British prisons are overflowing with pensioners doing time for pea-shooter offences!

Dave

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

My dear old Dad, long since passed away, got a pea shooter and some dried peas to 'discourage' the seagulls from nesting on his chimney stack. He didn't want to kill them, just to encourage them to find somewhere else to nest.

It didn't work very well, the seagulls stayed; I did suggest an air rifle might be more effective but as I say, he didn't want to kill them. What he would have made of todays nutty world gone mad I dread to think.

Chris

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Martin Connelly on 12/12/2020 00:03:05:

Is a pea a hard pellet or dart? Where does it fall in the scale between diamond and talc? What is the definition of hard. This has clearly been written by someone who does not really know what hard is. When I was at school BIC pen tubes and rice were commonly used to get round the "no pea shooters in school" rules.

Martin C

Ah. When I was at school we found pearl barley – when you could get it – was ballistically superior to rice.

I foresee a qualifying kinetic energy clause akin to that for airguns. Some long blowpipes can reach 400 ft./sec with a hard clay ball – definitely capable of causing injury.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

SOD.

The 1988 law banned carrying (posseson in pubilc) and a few other things. subsequent amendments added schools and places of education (seems our law makers don't think things out), selling etc.
Previously you could have many of the items on your own property, possesion in private was not an offence and it would be hard to prove when or how you aquired the item.

The new law makes possesion in private an offence. The descriptions do seem a bit odd and cover a lot of items.
A pea shooter clearly meets the definition of a blowpipe. It can fire ittems other than peas, hard or otherwise.
Not fake news at all. Poory thought out law – probably but that seems to be the trend these days, the fundamental laws arn't being enforced so make up new ones so it looks like we are tough on crime.

My worry is that these will have more and more impact on our hobbies, look at the EPP regulations!

Robert G8RPI.

[Guy LambParticipant @guylamb68056]

Like so much of our legislation, EPP regs were a 'knee jerk something must be done' reaction to acid in the face acts of unspeakable violence. The, perhaps unintended consequences, of such hasty actions is the unavailability of basic chemicals for private use and the risk of making otherwise law abiding individuals into criminals. Immediately after The Archers I will be turning my self in to my local nick (subject to it being open naturally).

Guy

[brickyParticipant @bricky]

Back in the mid 50's we used to buy dried peas from the seed merchants and take them to the Saturday flicks.The manager finally told us that they were banned as repeated firing at the film was damaging the screen.The Saturday morning flicks were 6d .

Frank

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Robert Atkinson 2 on 12/12/2020 12:09:10:

…

A pea shooter clearly meets the definition of a blowpipe. …

My worry is that these will have more and more impact on our hobbies, look at the EPP regulations!

Robert G8RPI.

But a pea-shooter doesn't meet the definition of a blow-pipe until a court says it does. If prosecuted for possession of a pea-shooter, it's an obvious defence to point out the law probably did not intend toys to be classified as offensive weapons. The intent in this example is ambiguous. Happens a lot, and when it does a court listens to the prosecution and defence arguments and decides which has merit. Much British law is Case Law – what the words actually mean is tested in court and what the court decides becomes the precedent. Maybe a pea-shooter is a blow-pipe, maybe not.

Generally the courts are in no hurry to make toys and domestic appliances illegal. So far as I know, no-one has ever been arrested for owning a pea-shooter, and consequently whether or not a pea-shooter is a blowpipe with the meaning of the act is still undecided. Your position in law is much more dangerous if caught with a full-size blowpipe and ammunition, doubly so if it's been fired at someone, triply if it caused injury. The defence cannot claim it's a toy.

It's a shame, but ill-disposed persons can and do abuse useful workshop chemicals. EPP controls are forced on us in order to protect the majority. Why should the public risk a face full of Drain Cleaner just to save a few model engineers the bother of registering to buy the chemical and then being obliged to store it safely? Controls rarely stop legitimate purchases, but they make it more difficult for anonymous malcontents to get away with murder. The cost is many things I'd like to try, like Nitriding, Blueing, mirror making and early photography all become more trouble than they're worth. Which, on balance, I agree is better than the alternative.

How do you feel about men being free to train as airline pilots so they could hijack airliners and crash them into the World Trade Centre? No checks on pilot students back then, there are now…

Dave

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

Posted by bricky on 12/12/2020 13:22:14:

Back in the mid 50's we used to buy dried peas from the seed merchants and take them to the Saturday flicks.The manager finally told us that they were banned as repeated firing at the film was damaging the screen.The Saturday morning flicks were 6d .

Frank

My brother and I bought dried peas by the pound from the grocer. After a while we were faced with an ultimatum from Mum – bake the peas in the oven before firing them, or lose our peashooters. She was fed up with weeding pea seedlings out of her flower beds!

George B.

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