Part built Allchin 1.5 inch

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi All

It’s been a while and there’s been some failed projects but I’m at it again, this time an Allchin traction engine 1.5inch.

And this engine I intend to finish, workshop facilities still to be purchased but anything that can be done with limited tools will be.

I’ve purchased small castings but still Cylinder to purchase as this was missing, a lot of other parts have been beautifully made by the previous owner so I intend to do the engine justice however long it takes.

I will add some pictures in due course, and would love to hear from anyone also building the engine or even if you have any parts available, what I won’t be doing myself is the safety valve but I’m going have a go at the pump and finish off the steam manifold which I’ve done with a small pillar drill and plenty of hand filling.

Regards

Derek

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi All

A small selection of Allchin progress pictures added for anyone who maybe interested.

Regards

Derek

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

That looks nicely made Derek.

Brian

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Thanks Brian, I’m pleased so far as I’m no expert.

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Waiting to see if my boiler can be finished, it’s been sent away.

Next stages all waiting on the outcome 🙏

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Tidy and very attractive work. Keep going.

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Many thanks Mick

Will upload more pictures soon..crosshead turned on lathe and also flat sides.

Not skilled enough to make as separate parts and also have no millng machine yet.🙏

 

Edited By derek blake on 04/12/2018 23:01:05

Edited By derek blake on 04/12/2018 23:02:17

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Evening All

I’d be interested to talk to everyone, but especially anyone who maybe presently building the Allchin as I have a few questions you maybe able to help me with.

Regards

Derek

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

One part on the engine, the water lifter.

Would some consider this not a hugely important item to work on and to concentrate just to the pump and injector?

Regards

Derek

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

It is unlikely you will be wanting to fill up from a stream or pond so not that critical. On the smaller engines it is often used to connect a hose from the riding trolley tank so you can pump water into the tender with a hand pump rather than waste steam.

I don't think there are many Allchin builders on here but ask away as a lot of thing are common to all TEs

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi Jason

That's sort of what I was thinking, its an item that doesn't really need to be concentrated on.

The water pump is complicated enough with vague drawings so will concentrate on working that part out I think.

Many thanks

Derek

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

I built an Allchin years ago, and over an extended period. I found the drawings good but Hughes' 2nd construction series in ME, which began well after I'd made a start, was very useful, especially for some of the "fiddly" small detail. This, for example, would include the water lifter and hose, but also plenty of other bits and pieces. I'd strongly recommend looking for this series, or the book.

In that series, he acknowledged that the original lubricator design couldn't be assembled, but I think that was the only significant drawing error.

During my build, the valve gear was criticised by, IIRC, John Haining in ME. Based on Haining's undoubted expertise, I re-made the eccentrics at that time, it must have been change of throw, but I no longer have the details. My Allchin seems to run OK, but, TBH, I suspect that so do many others that are made to the original dimensions.

The design makes for a very nice looking model, but not the easiest one to build or operate IMHO.

Clive

Edited By Clive Brown 1 on 06/12/2018 09:16:06

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi Clive

interesting info, I agree its not been easy but I have to admit a lot was built already by a very good engineer as the work was beautiful.

I'm just doing the bits I can, like say the boiler has been sent away for finishing hopefully but I don't know the outcome yet so that could end the build in one fail swoop.

I'm presently looking for quotes to get the cylinder block machined as that's something I cant do with my workshop as it is at the moment.

so if anyone know of someone who they could suggest that they may have used and are reputable id very much appreciate it.

I've pretty much finished the crosshead, front and rear cylinder covers and trunk guide.

Regards,

Derek

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Small amount of progress today, finished crosshead not perfect but happy with results considering it’s only one piece and not a silver soldered version as per drawings.

Next stage is to do what I can on the cylinder block and valve chest but limited on this section, still waiting for boiler results but these jobs are keeping me busy and interested.

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Merry late Christmas to everyone.

So I’ve done some more work on the cylinder and parts required for it to be finished.

Now I have a small question for anyone, is there anyone who has built the Allchin before and would consider finished my casting for me?

Now I understand that’s unlikely but I wanted to ask before I committed to some quotes I’ve had.

I thought it maybe worth asking in case I could get it done slightly cheaper.

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Derek,

The last line of you last but one post "I thought it maybe worth asking in case I can get it done slightly cheaper" may be off putting to some and possibly not get you many offers of help with machining!

As recently discussed on another forum I frequent when 'subbing work out' there are three main considerations, cost, speed and quality. The former and the latter generally are inextricably linked in that if you want high quality the cost will generally be high although it is not guaranteed that if the cost is high you will definitely get good quality! The middle one, speed, is also indeterminate as good 'contractors' are generally busy so there will be a waiting time.

Paul.

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi Paul

That’s a fair comment about me saying slightly cheaper, however not knowing what’s a good price to machine the casting means that the quotes given maybe far above the job itself as company’s have overheads when home machinists don’t so much.

Maybe it would be fair to ask more on advice of a fair cost, however I’m open to any advice before committing.

Regards

Derek

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Derek,

Therein lies another problem as to what is a fair price. Certainly it is reasonable to assume that the hourly rate for a commercial jobbing shop which as you say has to incorporate various overheads will be higher than some one doing an odd job working in their garden shed. What constitutes a fair cost for the former is reasonably easy to break down and justify in terms of capital costs, rent, power, statutory costs associated with employment and wages. The latter is more subjective as it involves how an individual values their time. I know a retired fellow who does very occasional jobs that interest him, he has some decent machines that are 'paid for' so his costs are really power any consumables and his time, the question really is his time (and skills) worth any less than the commercial shop?

I have never machined a 1 1/2" Allchin cylinder (but have machined bigger cylinders for myself) so have no real idea of how long it would take but thinking along the lines of the steps and set ups required I would guess at least eight to ten hours as a minimum? Drilling and tapping the holes would be time consuming in itself. That being the case for a commercial shop £300 may be cheap.

Who ever you get to do it the most important thing is clarity in what you want done. It's worth bearing in mind that most model drawings are not 'proper' production drawings as they have no indications of tolerance or surface finish. A commercial shop would need some enhancements to the drawings, a minimum probably as an example (if a liner is fitted) being tolerances on the bore in the casting for the liner and the liner O/D to achieve the desired fit. You will have no redress on anyone if you give them the typical model drawing that shows the bore as say 1 1/4" and the liner 1 1/4" without giving an indication of tolerance or fit. The key to success on both sides is a clear understanding of what is required and what will be delivered and when, without this there will be frustration on one or both sides!

For a number of reasons I don't do 'commercial' work but this year I was approached out of the blue by an upholstery company asking if I could make a one off aluminium block for a piece of furniture that was lost or broken from a sample. The block was quite involved with a number of drillings and counterbores but the type of thing you would get as a die cast component from B&Q for 50p. I estimated for me to source a piece of material (it was quite large – about 2" long by 1" sq) and made the counterbore cutters and then machined the block it would be at least a couple of hours work so I quoted £50 all in. Obviously this was something of a shock to the enquirer as they never came back! The expectation was I assume because I am retired and my machines are my own I would do it for peanuts – like the old saying if you pay peanuts you get monkeys! If I had taken them my workshop stool for recovering I very much doubt they would have done it for 'love'.

Paul.

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

Derek,

I fully agree with virtually all of Paul's points above. The only point where I would differ is the suggested time.For the work that you are asking about, machining of the cylinder block, liner, covers, valve chest, valves etc and also the trunk guide and bracket would, IMO, take very much longer than Paul's suggestion of 8-10 hours min.

This work can however be readily carried out with fairly basic workshop facilities centred around a small lathe equipped with a vertical slide. Bill Hughes excellent ME series and also his book on Allchin construction go into great detail on achieving good results with just such limited equipment. Many constructors, including myself, have trodden this path.

My suggestion is therefore to obtain Hughes' written description in one form or another and consider whether to DIY.

Edited By Clive Brown 1 on 29/12/2018 09:17:42

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi Paul

Thank you for your very detailed comment, working as a Technician for one of the worlds best hi-fi company’s Naim Audio I’m very aware of how much machine jobs can cost and am constantly shocked on what we have to pay for what looks like a very quick process.

However when it comes to cylinder machining I’m also aware of the time it takes to set everything up, I’ve been quoted £600 which I actually think is pretty fair.

I only asked on here if anyone was interested in doing the work for the only reason that some people enjoy the challenge and maybe looking to earn some extra cash for the new year.

It’s the old saying if you don’t ask you don’t get, it wasn’t to try and get something done on the cheap.

Many thanks for your input.

I will upload more pictures of progress in due course.

Derek

Edited By derek blake on 29/12/2018 12:34:38

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Happy new year to you all.

Christmas has come and gone but a little more work done on the cylinder, I still intend to send away for boring and steam hole drilling’s as I’m not skilled enough for that part nor do I have the right size lathe, however I have pretty much finished the trunk guide etc.

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

[Author]

Posts