Paper under vices.

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

In a recent post, the idea of placing paper between clamped surfaces was discussed. It is an idea that has many advocates. I am about to remove the vice off the mill for a minor service and was thinking of doing this as I have had it move very slightly in the past. I have some VCI anti rust paper and was wondering if this would be suitable? Has anyone tried this? Am I being stupid?

Thoughts please.

David.

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I've never had a vice move under cutting as long as I've tightened the clamp bolts.

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

I have seen rust under vices in the past caused by coolant soaking into the paper which was put under a vice. It had been under a long time, maybe a couple of years, on a Bridgeport we had set up just to jump on to mill bits and pieces. When the vice was removed to mill a long job it was a mess stained and surface rust on both bottom if vice an bed of mill. Since then I would never put anything under a vice except wipe with a slightly oily rag and I have never had on move the slightest in 50 years on various mills from 50 tonne mill with 12 inch face mill's to my little bench mill at home. It's more important to use the correct clamps and T bolts etc and checking for swarf between.

David

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

My industrial experience agrees with David G 1 & I also oil the vice base to stop rusting.

Tony

[derek hall 1Participant @derekhall1]

I agree with the comments above, just make sure table is smooth and the bottom of the vice and no swarf can be trapped.

You can use paper to assist with clamping work between the vice jaws or other clamps but this would only be temporary just for the job in hand.

Regards to all

Derek

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Another vote for oil under the vice. Spread on and wipe off to leave the merest film.

Check vice base and table flatness. Generally machines and vices are very good but sometimes you get a pair that are a mutually touch off leaving inadequate clamp down area. If so thin aluminium sheet has sufficient squidge to take up the difference and, unlike paper, won't absorb coolant et al and promote oil / rust stains.

Worth checking that the tops of the bolt down lugs are flat and square to the base. If they are significantly out of square and flat the bolts will be pulling at an angle reducing hold down force.

Some professionals advocate occasionally stoning the table to remove any burrs that may have arisen. There is a proper stone for this job (expensive!) but a fine oilstone is said to suffice. Sounds overkill to me.

Clive

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Hi David,

I would agree with all – there should be no need to put paper under a vise unless the surfaces are extremely poor – usually unlikely

I use a slip of copy paper a lot to aid grip from a clampiing perspective but have never had need to put it under a vise.

Ramon (Tug)

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Putting anything compressible under the vice seems illogical to me as the act of tightening the holding down bolts will cause distortion in the vice body.

Ian P

[Anonymous]

Never had a vice move under cutting forces – work yes, but vice no. I can't see any need to put paper under the vice and introduce an unknown variable that may upset the parallelism of the vice to the table.

Andrew

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Ian P on 20/02/2021 09:02:10:

Putting anything compressible under the vice seems illogical to me as the act of tightening the holding down bolts will cause distortion in the vice body.

Ian P

.

The logic is that [unless the mating surfaces are flat enough to wring together] … until something distorts there would only be three-point contact between the two metal faces.

Therefore, a thin gasket improves the situation, rather than making it worse.

By far the biggest risk though, is moisture [as already mentioned by others]

… and in reality it should not be necessary

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 20/02/2021 09:32:50

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

Sold!

The minor service is becoming more major and has now moved to regrinding the top and bottom face of the vice which should improve things as the bottom whilst looking okay wasn't very good. Fortunately the vice breaks down to fairly convenient and easily ground pieces, so this shouldn't take too long.

I had meant to do this when I got the vice but it was bought to do a job and once that was done the next panic came along and….

Thanks for the unanimous verdict!

David.

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Unless the paper is certified as acid free, the kind that conservators use, I think it is almost certain to promote some kind of interface damage over time to either or both components. And the experience reported on this thread bears that out.

I only ever use oily surfaces

Edit. I see I am joining the party too late anyway!

Brian

Edited By Brian Wood on 20/02/2021 09:35:42

[Phil PParticipant @philp]

Just a little tip about swarf removal……….

I use a 12" long strip of aluminium door bottom draught excluder, the type with a brush along one edge, I give the mill table and the underside of the vice a quick brush over with this each time I fit it.
You get the whole lot in one go and it is much easier than using a paintbrush etc.

Phil

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Phil P Ideal for the job, I use the same.

[Anonymous]

Posted by Clive Foster on 20/02/2021 08:58:55:

Some professionals advocate occasionally stoning the table to remove any burrs that may have arisen. There is a proper stone for this job (expensive!) but a fine oilstone is said to suffice.

I normally do that once a year during my annual workshop clean up and oil. I use a small, very fine, oilstone that I inherited from a toolmaker.

Andrew

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Posted by Phil P on 20/02/2021 10:24:51:

Just a little tip about swarf removal……….

I use a 12" long strip of aluminium door bottom draught excluder, the type with a brush along one edge, I give the mill table and the underside of the vice a quick brush over with this each time I fit it.
You get the whole lot in one go and it is much easier than using a paintbrush etc.

Phil

I have the same with a rod at right angles to the ali strip, fixed with a screw, that is great for sweeping swarf from under the lathe bed.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

As many of us will be using vices that have been imported and at the economy end of the market it would be useful to check the base is flat. For those with a decent surface plate a blue check could be interesting and useful. Of course it would be useful to check the table as well.

Mike

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

Well the vice is back on the mill!

I stoned the table with a ground flat stone and put some oil on it.

The vice is better now the bottom is flat and I would echo what Mike said.

Overall definitely worth the few hours spent.

David.

[John ReeseParticipant @johnreese12848]

I don't use paper under the vise. My vise is keyed to the table slot. I loosen the T-bolts and slide the vise to one end of the table when I want to mount a rotary table or something else to the table. I couldn't do that if I used paper under it.

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