Oxy Acetylene or Oxy Propane?

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Samsaranda on 02/10/2018 15:50:43:

…

Have not been able to obtain a replacement cartridge since, manufacturer was French perhaps they have something against the British and refuse to sell to us? Also have not seen true MAPP gas available since.

Dave W

The French choosing not to sell to us only becomes a possibility on April the 1st next year, it's not the reason MAPP gas disappeared.

As I understand it, MAPP was a useful by-product from another industrial process and the big plant in the USA that made most of it closed down some years ago. It seems the market for MAPP isn't valuable enough to tempt anyone else to start making it because the alternatives are all much cheaper. As a by-product MAPP was a nice earner but having to make it specially is too expensive.

Dave

[Matt HarringtonParticipant @mattharrington87221]

MAP-X gas is available from Toolstation. Is this the same thing?

**LINK**

Matt

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Dave, thanks and there was me slagging off the French when it wasn’t their fault.

Matt, MAPP-X gas is I believe a similar gas but not chemically the same and does not achieve the same temperature as the original MAPP but still a useful product.

Dave W

[Phil StevensonParticipant @philstevenson54758]

Posted by Samsaranda on 02/10/2018 15:50:43:

A few years ago bought a MAPP gas torch and cartridge from Axminster, it was a good bit of kit, when the cartridge ran out tried Axminster for a replacement and they had discontinued MAPP gas. Have not been able to obtain a replacement cartridge since, manufacturer was French perhaps they have something against the British and refuse to sell to us? Also have not seen true MAPP gas available since.

Dave W

And Screwfix sell it **LINK**

[AJWParticipant @ajw]

MAPP gas burns hotter with oxygen than propane does.
I have used it when carrying out welded repairs during my Morris restoration.

Alan

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Apparently the 'MAP' gases as sold by Screwfix etc are usually a mixture of Propane and Propylene . It doesn't burn as hot as the original, though it is hotter than the ordinary gases.

Shame, it seems MAPD was ideal for small scale users, but got squeezed out because once set up for large scale use, oxy-acetylene is cheaper for a hot flame while propane is cheaper for bulk heating. The market for true MAPP is unprofitable – not enough being sold.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 02/10/2018 17:39:25

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

You can't get true MAPP gas anymore.

MAPP was a trademark and those which are now sold are normally 'MAP' and actually propylene based and not as effective.

If you look at the blurb under the Screwfix 'MAPP' you''ll see it describes it as 'MAP'.

oxy-MAP/Propylene works hotter than oxy-propane but not as hot as real MAPP was.

Neil

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Many useful messages and thanks to all who responded. Hopefully Neil will get a response to his appeal for someone to write an article about this.

Are there any further thoughts on the oxy- propylene route?

Brian

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 02/10/2018 17:41:38:

You can't get true MAPP gas anymore.

MAPP was a trademark and those which are now sold are normally 'MAP' and actually propylene based and not as effective.

If you look at the blurb under the Screwfix 'MAPP' you''ll see it describes it as 'MAP'.

oxy-MAP/Propylene works hotter than oxy-propane but not as hot as real MAPP was.

Neil

.

… and just to add to the confusion, Rothenberger also lists MAPP: **LINK**

https://www.rothenberger.co.uk/en/products/-/7-mapp-gas-special-gas-mix-for-highperformance-soldering-work/

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 04/10/2018 13:37:56:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 02/10/2018 17:41:38:

You can't get true MAPP gas anymore.

MAPP was a trademark and those which are now sold are normally 'MAP' and actually propylene based and not as effective.

If you look at the blurb under the Screwfix 'MAPP' you''ll see it describes it as 'MAP'.

oxy-MAP/Propylene works hotter than oxy-propane but not as hot as real MAPP was.

Neil

.

… and just to add to the confusion, Rothenberger also lists MAPP: **LINK**

https://www.rothenberger.co.uk/en/products/-/7-mapp-gas-special-gas-mix-for-highperformance-soldering-work/

MichaelG.

Interesting! gas. That appears to be genuine MAPP^® Perhaps it has come back into production? There's clearly a market for it.

Correction, they have the trademark but the MSDS shows it is a butane propylene mix, not the original MAPP.

What would be interesting is someone's experience of using the current propylene-based systems in anger. Will it weld or cut steel?

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 04/10/2018 14:48:34

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 04/10/2018 14:45:01:

[ … ]

Correction, they have the trademark but the MSDS shows it is a butane propylene mix, not the original MAPP.

What would be interesting is someone's experience of using the current propylene-based systems in anger. Will it weld or cut steel?

Neil

.

The plot thickens ….

Chasing the TradeMark gets us to this [hopefully useful] page: **LINK**

https://www.messergroup.com/welding-gases

MichaelG.

[D.A.GodleyParticipant @d-a-godley]

Like Brian H , I am contemplating putting together a Oxy/Propane kit .

I have a Sievert propane set up currently which has the regulator shown below . The regulator has a hose failure system built in but does not have a gauge of any sort on it .

Would some kind person , who has the knowledge and experience , inform me of what is required . Do I bin the regulator in favour of one with a gauge ,or even use an acetylene gauge , and what pressure range is best adopted .

Likewise , with the Oxygen side of things , gauge advice would be appreciated.

I understand that flash back arresters are required , is it the same acetylene type which is used for the propane supply ? .

I have read the posts above , I have looked at the links , watched YouTube and searched the web , but I just can’t seem to get a clear picture of what exactly is needed.

I fear that if I go to one of my local welding equipment stores , they will sell me what they have rather than what I need , if you understand me , whereas, I know that in this forum , I can get unbiased, and genuinely helpful guidance.

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Brian, I have an oxy-propane set-up that uses an oxygen concentrator in place of bottled gas. I believe the oxygen produced is not quite as pure as that out of a bottle but most users say it is considerably cheaper in the long run to use a concentrator. Many also say it is safer. All oxygen concentrators, afaik, have a dial on them to regulate the flow of gas.

[Pete WhiteParticipant @petewhite15172]

Very interesting, used to cut all the time with oxy propane, time to revisit this for mentioned uses now that the Acetylene has gone. Never thought about it.

Thankyou all.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Bill,

I, too, use an oxycon. Could do with a larger one when one comes up at a good price. Mine is a 5l size.

What size is yours? Purity will always be less than 100% (noble gases) and are generally around the 88% mark when flat out. Still far better than 79% dilution!

 

Edited By not done it yet on 18/12/2018 12:01:25

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Posted by not done it yet on 18/12/2018 12:00:46:

Bill,

I, too, use an oxycon. Could do with a larger one when one comes up at a good price. Mine is a 5l size.

What size is yours?

Mine is 5L too. I've never needed a bigger one, but then I've not done any big projects yet.

If you want a 10L one, it might be worth giving Tuffnell Glass a call. They're advertising new 10L ones (at over a grand!), but they say they have reconditioned ones as well in 5L, 8L and 10L, though only the 5L reconditioned ones seem to be viewable on their site at the moment.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I bought mine from Martin at a lampworking do, several years ago. It has not been used for lampwork much, since then – more often for metalwork jobs.

I would not buy a new one, but might consider adding another 5l at some time – except that two would take up much more space, which I don’t have too much of!

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