Over 70 Driving Licence Renewal

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

Hi Dave,

I was well aware of the difficulties being faced by major Government organisations, especially something close to me the NHS.

This problem has not just happened overnight and clearly there has been a dubious policy change at the DVLA. The outstanding backlog will not go away without some form of intervention. For each application cleared on the backlog another will come to replace it, or maybe two, or three. This is on a working day, don't forget that people have birthdays on the weekend as well when the DVLA are not working.

The current DVLA website does not reflect this policy change, as it quite clearly states 70 year olds will automatically be notified 90 days before. It would have been more sense to say that due to staff shortages and the current backlog we would advise those drivers approaching 70 to obtain form D1 from the Post Office.

However not all Post Offices can supply this unless they do taxation licences as well. Plus form D1 is not the same as the D46P which is supplied in the automatic notification, but it says it can be used.

Then there is the problem of those who are not on-line, a recent letter in Post Bag will prove this point. How do they get notified? Or do they wait until they get a fine from the local Police?

The problem with all Government departments is they assume everyone drives, they all have internet access, a mobile phone with apps and a camera. Plus they are all computer savvy. There are several of my neighbours who do not use the internet.

I for one do not have a mobile phone which does apps. I cannot do texts because the buttons are too close together and my skin will not operate a touch screen model.

At the outset of this pandemic, MOT testing was wavered. Surely a licence renewal holiday would be a step towards resolving this current problem? It is either that or they need to recruit more staff, pdq.

What really sticks in my gut is the arrogance of the CEO who feels she does not have to answer an enquiry. Her ignorance, or bad manners and poor business etiquette. Has involved more work for her staff by me making a complaint. When a reply with a simple statement as outlined above, about obtaining the form D1 would have resolved the matter there and then.

Regards

Gray,

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Graham Meek on 13/03/2022 10:36:56:

Hi Dave,

I was well aware of the difficulties being faced by major Government organisations…

This problem has not just happened overnight and clearly there has been a dubious policy change at the DVLA. The outstanding backlog will not go away without some form of intervention…

The current DVLA website does not reflect this policy change, as it quite clearly states 70 year olds will automatically be notified 90 days before. It would have been more sense to say that due to staff shortages and the current backlog we would advise those drivers approaching 70 to obtain form D1 from the Post Office.

However not all Post Offices can supply this unless they do taxation licences as well. Plus form D1 is not the same as the D46P which is supplied in the automatic notification, but it says it can be used.

…

The problem with all Government departments is they assume everyone drives, they all have internet access, a mobile phone with apps and a camera. Plus they are all computer savvy. There are several of my neighbours who do not use the internet.

I for one do not have a mobile phone which does apps. I cannot do texts because the buttons are too close together and my skin will not operate a touch screen model.

At the outset of this pandemic, MOT testing was wavered. Surely a licence renewal holiday would be a step towards resolving this current problem? It is either that or they need to recruit more staff, pdq.

What really sticks in my gut is the arrogance of the CEO who feels she does not have to answer an enquiry. Her ignorance, or bad manners and poor business etiquette. Has involved more work for her staff by me making a complaint. When a reply with a simple statement as outlined above, about obtaining the form D1 would have resolved the matter there and then.

Regards

Gray,

The world would be a much better place without COVID – it's caused chaos.

Easy to list problems but much, much harder to come up with solutions. For example, I'm afraid 'they need to recruit more staff, pdq' is a non-starter. It's not that DVLA don't have enough staff already, it's that COVID prevents them working in their business efficient function-centralised office block.

The government could have created a Nightingale facility, but chose instead to prioritise issuing licences to HGV and Health Workers, presumably because the cost-benefit ratio doesn't justify a Nightingale.

To reduce the pain they have instituted what's close to a licence renewal holiday: over 70s can continue to drive on an expired licence provided a doctor confirms they are fit. Why not take advantage of that until normal service resumes?

When severe queuing is caused by a prolonged temporary 70% staff outage it's optimistic to expect DVLA to answer letters to the CEO, especially as most answers can say no more than 'sorry for the delay'. Other customers might well consider the cost of answering such letters to be a misuse of resources. If 10% of people in DVLA's queue write to complain, DVLA get 100,000 letters. These would take at least 2000 man days to answer. If Gray were appointed CEO, my guess is he too would rather allocate 2000 man days to clearing the queue than apologising for it.

In 2020 60% of over 70s renewed their licences online, up from 43% in 2016: it seems many of us are happy with using computers. The overall figures for the number of older drivers in 2020 is quite interesting:

AGE OF LICENCE HOLDER	2016	2020
70-79	704,027	818,835
80-89	107,754	137,356
90-99	7,146	10,046
100+	25	71

From them, up to 8% of the people in DVLAs queue are 70 year old re-newers, which is a significant minority. I'm sympathetic, but the government prioritised health workers and the economy: does keeping retired people on the road contribute much to either?

It's good to see the number of oldsters still fit enough to drive is rising. 71 centenarian drivers in the UK is impressive.

Dave

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

If you have to get your doctor to say your fit, to take advantage of the extension, that may well cost £120, that's what my surgery wanted, then you might as well have the £50 medical I had and get all your categories, and since it is loosely a work type licence it may well be dealt with sooner. Good Luck, Noel.

[phillip burbankParticipant @phillipburbank45787]

A gentleman who lives some 50 yds from me, and is the same age as me, in fact born on the same day hasn't had a renwal notice yet. I had mine 90 days before my old licence ran out, filled in the couple of bits and got my photo done at the local photographers. A friend of mine who is a company managing director signed the photo on the back as required.

I went down to the post office in the village and sent the application as a to be" signed for letter". When I got home I realised that I hadn't included my old licence so decided to wait and see what happens.Just short of 2 weeks later a letter from DVLA arrived. I guessed it was my licence so opened it, but no it was the application and a letter saying that they needed more proof of it being me who had applied to renew my licence. I had sent my birth certificate so what else did they need ? There was also a bit of hand writing in red ball point "No O/L" obviously" No old licence."

So I phoned the number from the letter, and got through to a queue for about 20 mins. A gentleman came on the phone and said that they wanted evidence of my national insurance number, or some thing that is from DWP stating that I am in reciept of pension, and of course my old driving licence, AND THEY MUST be returned in the envelope provided.

O/K no problem it is my fault, all put in the provided envelope ready to go down to the village post office next morning so that a signed for letter is sent to them.

Just over a week later another letter from the DVLA and of course I thought "not again", but no it was my licence, and a plain letter from them too with the documents they wanted sent back.

This was some 3 weeks ago when it arrived, but the guy up t he road hasn't had anything fr om then yet.

It was by the way a paper licence not a photo one, and I don't have a current passport.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

The DVLA need to get their backsides into work every day and put a shift in, the COVID excuse doesn’t wash anymore for poor customer service.

Tony

[Bob Unitt 1Participant @bobunitt1]

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 13/03/2022 17:56:36:

The DVLA need to get their backsides into work every day and put a shift in, the COVID excuse doesn’t wash anymore for poor customer service.

Tony

My case is slightly different, but I'm an over-70 (75) who had a clean driving licence for nearly 60 years, which I had to surrender when I had a heart problem early last year. My cardiac consultant told me I'm once again safe to drive last September, and even gave me a letter to send to the DVLA with my new application. Over five months later the only response has been the return of my identification documents (with a promise that the licence would follow "within two weeks" !). I'm reluctant to phone them as a) some guy in the paper spent 6 hours waiting for an answer on the phone the other day and b) I've been told that every time someone contacts the DVLA they add a note to their file, which then goes to the bottom of the pile.

I wonder what the legal position is ? Could you sue them for preventing you driving due to their own failures ?

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

I was going to say just start driving again but of course that would invalidate any insurance you had or would it?? I worked with one 'know it all' who said you would still be insured even if you didn't have a valid licence, in his mind he was never wrong but I can't see it.

Tony

Edited By Tony Pratt 1 on 14/03/2022 15:28:53

[MikeKParticipant @mikek40713]

Posted by Bob Unitt 1 on 14/03/2022 14:37:58:

I wonder what the legal position is ? Could you sue them for preventing you driving due to their own failures ?

Only if driving were a legal right.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Get your mp to put a rocket up them. Worked for me when I had problems with HMRC

[Julian GoodyearParticipant @juliangoodyear91963]

Is the world going mad?

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

It had been for some while my intention to stop driving a 70. Having commuted to work at Cheltenham General Hospital for 10 years driving got that it held nothing for me.

However during the first shutdown our GP surgery moved from with-in walking distance to the outskirts of the town. This would be OK if it were on the flat, but our town is perched on the side of a hill and the GP's Surgery is now down in the valley. The new community hospital will be sited slightly further out of town and a good walk from the GP surgery.

My wife has a heart condition, which needs me to take her to appointments.

The Boots Pharmacy in town, has had difficulty getting my prescription medication. A Pharmacy in the next village does not seem to find it a problem. To get to them I need to drive, or use the twice a week bus service, which might be axed soon.

No us 70 year olds don't need to drive, it is not a really priority.

As our Doctors are only too happy to do home visits. (If you believe that then I have a bridge to sell you). If you can't get to see the GP, then it is call 111 and a visit from the paramedics. Which to me is not a very good use of NHS resources.

Current taxi rates are £5 each way, that is if you can get hold of them. They have become extremely busy since the GP's moved. I did hear of one poor woman getting a taxi to the surgery, but was unable to get home.

I will ask my GP about the driving past 70 waver on Friday. I suspect from what I have read this only applies provided the renewal application is with the DVLA.

Regards

Gray,

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I've just read the DVLA guidance on what to do if they don't complete your application on time DVLA

The clear implication is that your GP must have told you you're fit to drive, not that he hasn't told you your not fit. As GPs are run off their feet because the government hasn't trained enough (over many years), this feels like passing the buck. Should we really be taking up GP's time on bureaucracy? When I got mine at age 70 I didn't need any doctor involvement, just tick loads of boxes to self certify

[David-Clark 1Participant @david-clark1]

Hi Graham, I feel for you.

I gave up driving about 4 years ago, my wife had to drive me everywhere..

I have had to use hospital transport for many journeys though because I would not expect her to drive 35 miles to Hull when they shut the vascular clinic down in Grimsby. Now I can’t get hospital transport because I have mobility allowance even though I only have one leg and no mobility car any more so I had to find an alternative.

I found a local hospital transport service which will take me to hospital, wait for me, and biting me home for 45p a mile.I have also been told about a service called dial a ride which charges a lot less than 45p a mile.

I think I have seen this service in other parts of the country. Not sure if you can get this sort of service in Cheltenhamm but worth a try. Age related service should be fine although I am registered disabled. I remember Cheltenham quite well although I have not lived there for about 58 years.

Moving on to dodos and prescriptions.

Dodos, sorry doctors no loner exist as do home podiatry visits, trying to save my second foot by district nurses visiting but they are not foot specialists.

Prescriptions can be obtained from registered online pharmacies through the post.

I have used two services, Lloyds Pharmacy, totally useless, and chanced to collecting at Tescos instead. When the car lease ended I had to find another online pharmacy and chose Well. This is a much better service as long as you order your prescriptions over time The main thing is to spread your prescriptions out over time. This would probably have worked with Lloyds (or not).

By spreading out, you won’t get much overlap and the prescriptions will be posted promptly most of the time if in stock. On the odd occasion you can get the subscription returned to the doctor so you can collect locally.

If you request several prescription at once, and one is not readily available immediately, the pharmacies have a habit of delaying prescriptions until everything is available to send together.

I assume it is to save on postage.

I hopes this helps to overcome the system for you.

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

Hi Duncan,

The whole crux of the matter as I see it, is that you need to have completed a form, D46P or D1 for you to be covered by your GP's say so.

Like you I too consider burdening my GP with other external matters is not good use of his time. He has enough to do just looking after mine and others ailments. Plus trying to work around staff shortages due to the ongoing pandemic

I see him on Friday for a periodic check up, I was going to ask the question just as I was leaving, it was not a visit specifically for this.

Hi DC1,

I too feel for you, my father had to use hospital transport when he was receiving cancer treatment at Cheltenham. His days were very long, there were times when he was forgotten about and I had to get him after work. I joined the Oncology unit at CGH some while after his death. My work with them earned me an Excellence Award, for my Work and Commitment to the NHS.

Our problems pail into insignificance compared to yours. I have transferred to another local independent Pharmacist yesterday who will deliver. As my illness waxes and wanes my steroid treatment has to be adjusted to suit, so a standard prescription service is no good.

Take care,

Regards

Gray,

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

Posted by Graham Meek on 14/03/2022 17:57:34:

I will ask my GP about the driving past 70 waver on Friday. I suspect from what I have read this only applies provided the renewal application is with the DVLA.

Regards

Gray,

Well as promised I posed the question to my GP, who was only too happy to help. His reply was it is up to the Driver to ensure he or she conforms with the law. This requires them to complete an application form if they wish to continue to drive.

The only time my GP has been involved with the DVLA as regards the over 70 licence is to do a medical, or complete a questionnaire issued by the DVLA concerning a particular driver.

I hope this helps future readers,

Regards

Gray,

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