Over 70 Driving Licence Renewal

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

Mine will be due in about 10 months. Wondering how early I should apply to renew? Already have a plastic version.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Re night driving.

I am 69 but have disliked night-driving for a long time – over the last 20 years at least. Not just over-60.

I will qualify that though. I don't mind driving at night on empty roads.

The main problem is that headlamps have become far brighter with very intense, long beams of bluish-white light, even if correctly set. It started with halogen bulbs, and some motorists liked to fit ones of higher power than the regulation 60W; and continues with l.e.d. types.

On top of that a lot of drivers have no idea of their headlamp ranges, and even on long straights don't dip until within a hundred yards or so – then often flash them back to full just as the cars start to pass.

I find the most tiring though is wiggly roads with intermittent traffic even when everyone is dipping their lamps as soon as they see the glow round the next bend, but the overall effect is a sequence of random, frequent changes to dip always when you need the most light. If I know the road – as I do with the A37 Dorchester-Yeovil – I will usually leave the lamps on dip for a few seconds, to lessen the effect and assess if anyone else is coming.

I mention that route because it is generally open with long straights and gentle curves for about 15 miles to the county boundary, then becomes narrower and twisty with blind bends.

'''

I am certainly less confident about intense urban driving even in daylight; but much of that is lack of experience of city conditions. I could never have driven to Alexandra Palace (returning in the dark too), even in my 30s.

I won't return to Doncaster despite enjoying the 2019 exhibition – I had not expected the race-course to be practically in the city-centre; guarded by heavy traffic pushing me through very complicated junctions close together with no race-course signs, too rapidly for even the sat-nav to work properly.

[WindyParticipant @windy30762]

Posted by Emgee on 03/12/2021 16:25:00:

Clive

Best keep your current licence until it expires then do as requested.
Your new licence will continue from the expiry date of your current licence.

Emgee

I have had two new licences that were not a continuation of the expired ones.

Don't take anything for granted.

My latest licence starts nearly four months after previous one expired despite applying months before old licence finished.

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Hi Windy

That's because the DVLA don't backdate licence start dates, probably dated the day it was issued.

[David CauntParticipant @davidcaunt67674]

At 77 Bucks council asked if I would like to take an older/mature driver assessment. I have never found any problem but thought what lovely idea. It cost £37 and is an hour long in your own car. The next year I was offered one free so I took it again.

As the lockdown sort of finished I asked and got another and at 80 being told I should wait 3 years before applying again was somewhat of a confidence boost.

It means being assessed by total strangers who aren't afraid to tell you how it is and give helpful tips.

One could argue it doesn't test you at night but as has been said already it does start to become obvious what the problems are. That is especially true of the people who love the high powered headlights and have no idea about when to dip.

I you have any doubts I would thoroughly recommend taking this assessment.

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Nigel, I have the same problems with night driving, it seems as though the latest headlamp bulbs are lasers, the light is blinding, I don’t drive at night if there is a choice. I am fortunate in that my Honda Jazz has self dipping headlights, if it perceives a car coming towards you it automatically dips the headlights and likewise if you come up behind a vehicle it senses the taillights and dips, I have had a few problems where on a frosty night until the windscreen warms up it sometimes won’t operate, fails safe to dip though, the sensor for the lights is in the top of the windscreen and frost on the outside can upset it, however once the windscreen warms up and the frost is gone all works ok. Dave W

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Most of my (admittedly limited at present) night driving is urban so I don't suffer too much from being dazzled by other drivers' headlights.

What I do find increasingly troublesome is having to sit behind drivers when stationary who, contrary to what I was taught, keep their foot on the brake pedal; the dazzle from permanently lit brake lights at close quarters can be very hard to ignore.

Sad anorak that I am, when stationary in queues I have taken to counting the number of drivers who have and don't have their foot on the brake pedal. The number of the former now generally outweighs the latter by a big margin. I'm sure this wasn't always the case. Can anyone tell me why this change has occurred?

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, Dave W, interesting that self dipping headlights, which reminds me when I was a passenger on my first occasion of night time driving by my late older brother, I noticed that every time a car coming the other way his lights seem to just dip automatically and being a bit naive about driving cars, I asked him how that works as I couldn't see him switching anything, he replied saying there was a photo electric sensor that detects there headlights and dips his automatically and puts them back on full beam after the other car has passed, to which I thought made sense, bearing in mind this was about 1969 / 70. Of course there was no such thing fitted to his old Austin A35, he did come clean though when we got home and showed me the built in foot switch on the floor.

I've got just under two years before I need to worry about renewing my licence when I'm 70, however my current one runs out in a little over a couple of months, so I'll get less than two years before I have to renew it again, always knew I have bad luck.

Regards Nick.

[John AbsonParticipant @johnabson65530]

It could be down to an increasing prevalence of automatic gearboxes where a brake application is needed when stationary to prevent creep. The countermeasure is to apply the handbrake, or put the gearbox into park (easily enough done on our Honda where there is a P button).

I agree it distracting, and has become all the more so with high level / high intensity brake lights.

Another of my pet peeves – and one that IMO truly needs addressing as a safety risk – is the habit of emergency services when attending an incident to stop with their emergency lights on full, and often blinking as well. They are quite blinding and make it impossible to see the road clearly when passing them in situations where emergency personnel may be walking out into the road. I'm pretty sure I've seen emergency lights which go onto a 'dim' mode which would surely be more appropriate. Sometimes think there is an element of 'look at us, we're attending an emergency' about this behaviour.

[colin wilkinsonParticipant @colinwilkinson75381]

Did an online renewal on Wednesday, my second since turning 70, new licence arrived this morning ,Saturday. Seems if no humans are involved it is processed almost instantly.

[Richard S2Participant @richards2]

Posted by Bill Phinn on 04/12/2021 11:07:21:

Most of my (admittedly limited at present) night driving is urban so I don't suffer too much from being dazzled by other drivers' headlights.

What I do find increasingly troublesome is having to sit behind drivers when stationary who, contrary to what I was taught, keep their foot on the brake pedal; the dazzle from permanently lit brake lights at close quarters can be very hard to ignore.

Sad anorak that I am, when stationary in queues I have taken to counting the number of drivers who have and don't have their foot on the brake pedal. The number of the former now generally outweighs the latter by a big margin. I'm sure this wasn't always the case. Can anyone tell me why this change has occurred?

There is another reason why so many drivers are noted as riding the foot brake at T/lights etc.

The facility of 'Hill Start Assist' will apply the handbrake when the pedal is depressed harder when stationary. It is released automatically when the driver selects a gear, declutches and throttles to pull away. I have this on my Focus and it does leave the brake lights on for the stationary period. but I agree with you also that there are many who just sit with the foot on the brake nowadays. I am also aversed to the bright headlights and have always adopted the the advice from long ago to divert my line of sight to the kerb side ahead temporarily to avoid dazzle.

Also will have to jump through the hoops to replace my paper license which expires in 2022. Assuming my current painful wrist condition fades and I can get back to driving and the workshop?.

Regards

Edited By Richard S2 on 04/12/2021 14:31:17

[Lee Reynolds 1Participant @leereynolds1]

Re. Brake lights – many moons ago one of my university professors told us, during a stress analysis tutorial I think, that when he designed gearboxes for RR, first gear was only stressed for full power for a matter of minutes – he went on to say that whilst manual gearbox selectors were designed for millions of selections, those for automatics were not and should be left in Drive as much as possible.

Many many moons have passed since then and it may well not be relevant now may well it still be taught?

Regards

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Richard S, there are no real hoops to jump through if all you want is to drive a car, only if you want to retain the bigger catorgories will there some hoops !

Brakelights at traffic lights, yes they can be a real pain at night BUT I would have HID headlight bulbs BANNED ! Most are so poorly set as to dazzle even when dipped ! On rough or undulating roads they are possitivly dangerous, any benefit to the user of better lighting is lost as the oncoming driver can't see where they are going and thereby create a hazard ! Ah well ! Noel.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by noel shelley on 04/12/2021 16:43:52:

…I would have HID headlight bulbs BANNED ! Most are so poorly set as to dazzle even when dipped ! On rough or undulating roads they are possitivly dangerous, any benefit to the user of better lighting is lost as the oncoming driver can't see where they are going and thereby create a hazard ! …

This paper confirms that bright headlights are double-edged. They help older drivers see where they're going but dazzle older drivers coming the other way.

Shouldn't be a surprise that 'The older driver is visually disadvantaged.' Unfortunately it's because 'Older individuals have increased intraocular stray light, glare sensitivity, and photostress recovery time.'

Older folk are more likely to have eye disorders too. 'Eye disorders increase this problem, and their prevalence also increases with ageing. Even when high contrast visual acuity is normal, visual performance decreases with increasing age on most other sensory tests, including visual field, glare recovery time, stereopsis, contrast sensitivity, and low contrast visual acuity with and without glare.'

The problem isn't just brake lights and over-bright headlamps, the driver is in the frame too. My eyes certainly aren't what they were and night driving tires me out, especially if it's raining. Not a problem until I lose concentration due to tiredness, after which I should stop for a rest. Trouble with getting tired is it effects my judgement, and I might push on – just another 10 miles…

Dave

[geoff walker 1Participant @geoffwalker1]

Just been through the over 70 on line licence renewal, no problems at all, DVLA is functioning well today.

Geoff

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Most new vehicles with led headlights do not conform to cons and use regs as regards to beam pattern , it’s quite interesting to see it on a beam Setter!!

[John AbsonParticipant @johnabson65530]

How do they get type approval, or is it a maintenance issue in which case how do they pass their MOTs? I agree that one sees a lot that aren't well adjusted.

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

I think they are fine when clean, but dirt scatters the light pattern. How many headlights are spotless?

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Lots of modern cars have self levelling headlights so that if you have a big load in the back they are not shining at the sky. This is all very well until they go wrong, as my wife's did, one pointing fully up, one down. Tried manually over-riding, but as soon as ignition switched on the little motors whirred into action and put them back wrong. The assembly of motor/headlight was stunningly expensive, so cut the wires to the motor, adjust manually and live with it. Then had to convince the MOT man that not having the self levelling is not a fail.

I suspect lots of people simply don't notice (SWMBO hadn't) and so drive around dazzling everyone until MOT time

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Nicholas Farr on 04/12/2021 11:13:14:

[…]

he did come clean though when we got home and showed me the built in foot switch on the floor.

[…]

.

My 1966 Reliant Scimitar Coupé had one of those

… it can be a merry dance when using the left foot for both dip-switch and clutch !

MichaelG.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi MichaelG, I never had the experience of using those switches, as by the time I started my driving in 1973, my brother had an Austin 1100 which sadly was the last vehicle he ever drove, but yes it was in the left hand corner of the footwell. I think I've still got a second hand spare one somewhere that he got at the time he had his A35.

Regards Nick.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Posted by duncan webster on 04/12/2021 19:30:09:

The assembly of motor/headlight was stunningly expensive, so cut the wires to the motor, adjust manually and live with it. Then had to convince the MOT man that not having the self levelling is not a fail.

A non functioning self-leveling system on a car originally fitted or retro-fitted with HID headlights is an MOT fail It's also an offence under the 1989 Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations.

[John AbsonParticipant @johnabson65530]

Yes but doesn't he drive a personnel carrier (paragraph 3 section d)?

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Gentlemen, it's Sunday morning, time for a tale or 2 ! Ah yes The foot operated dip switch ! Hurtling into an S bend late one night at about 80 mph I reached for the wiper switch – missed and turned the headlights off ! The good Lord guided me through the bends and my next job was to use a spare dip switch to operate the 2 spotlights, so the above could not happen again ! Careful positioning of the second dip switch deside the original meant I could dip the headlights and also turn off (or on ) the spots in one movement. The car was a morris oxford estate with a tuned MGB engine and overdrive gearbox, the fun I had in that car !

Then there was the Austin Champ, equiped as a recovery truck, coming up the A1 with a dead MGB on the hook, girlfriend as passenger, trucks would over take us and on pulling in flash tail lights. Shirley asked why ? I explained how being an ex military vehicle it had been fitted with a device that when in convoy told the other driver it was safe to pull in and now this technolgy was coming into the civillian market. This was fine until dusk when she saw my headlights flash – had we not been so far from home, she would have got out and walked home, which is what she did 10 days later when in the pub she dicovered I had told someone how I'd pulled her leg ! 2 of the best vehicles I ever owned ! Noel.

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

Posted by Mark Rand on 05/12/2021 10:45:07:

Posted by duncan webster on 04/12/2021 19:30:09:

The assembly of motor/headlight was stunningly expensive, so cut the wires to the motor, adjust manually and live with it. Then had to convince the MOT man that not having the self levelling is not a fail.

A non functioning self-leveling system on a car originally fitted or retro-fitted with HID headlights is an MOT fail It's also an offence under the 1989 Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations.

I don't believe you can retro fit HID lighting as it needs certain markings, I suppose you could if you transferred all of the equipment from an identical make and model (which would be correct shape reflector headlamp, headlamp washers, levelling systems etc)? Having experimented a bit with it when rallying I don't think I'd bother these days, cheaper to change a bulb than a ballast.

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