Open Source models

[DuncParticipant @dunc]

Don't intend to hijack your post but great to see your blog! I look forward to reading your posts.

I don't intend to join the "build"; however, I know there will be numerous useful tips, ideas, machining how-tos.

[confused.engParticipant @confused-eng]

What about releasing the drawings using a creative commons style license. Wouldn't want someone passing the drawings off as their own and making a fortune out of them. Opensource software is released under a licence that allows for modification or inclusion in other projects but restricts resale for profit.

How about a selection of categories, something useful for the workshop, something to play with etc. This way the projects could be split across both ME & MEW. I know when I started with machine tools, acquiring all the different tools was expensive unless you can make them. But it is nice to have a model at the end that can be proudly be displayed.

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Hansrudolf – I think your definition fits the situation well. However, you missed one extra thing – the editor arguing with Mr.Jason repeatedly!

JD

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

 

I like the idea, but I have a problem is the question of what are the constraints on tooling? To date it has been suggested that a 7X12 (3 1/2X12 in the U.K.) lathe. Any milling and drilling needed must be do-able in the lathe. If that is the case we would have to describe how to make any special tools needed as a series of sub projects.

What sort of model? In my opinion it must be the following

1. A ‘quick and dirty’ thing. This is to give quick results.
2. It will work first time even with ‘rattling good fits’.
3. It must teach the beginner the ‘how to do it’ and later in the project ‘how to figure out how to do it’.
4. No castings (but these could be ‘optional extras&rsquo.
5. It must ‘do something’ not just chug round.
6. It may have optional (cheap) bought in parts. That is you can buy them or make them.
7. It should use ‘stock materials’ which to me means working in Metric. But we should always remind people of the ‘magic number’ 25.4.
8. I would suggest a limit of no more than 48 parts.

So what is it to be? I have few suggestions (which I will draw if wanted). These would be: –

1. A ‘contraption’ which seems to defy gravity (8 to 9 parts).
2. A form of ‘Fergusons paradox’ machine. I do not really like that one.
3. An Orrary which could come in one of two forms. The first is type which shows the position of the moon vis-à-vis the earth which also uses a form of ‘Fergusons paradox’. Secondly the type is one which shows the rotation of the ‘4 inner planets and (our moon)’. In both cases one could buy in the gear wheels.
4. A thumb motor which drives a little generator with a lamp or an LED, or a little compressor which blows a whistle.
5. One of Heron of Alexandria little ‘applied miracles’. I like the ‘programmable cart’ and the ‘glutton’s chalice’ which is messy but fun.

All of these are what I would call ‘Dinner table’ items which ‘SWAMBO’ would be glad to drag out to show how cleaver her ‘HITS’ is. At the moment I think 5 suggestions are enough from me, except to say that a locomotive to my mind too large a project for a beginner as it would take them too long to get a result.

Who or what is ‘HITS’ well it is “Him in the Shed”.

Rdgs

Dick

Edited By Richard Parsons on 14/05/2012 04:32:57

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

A small planned programme much like an apprentices first six months at the bench, Making a 'Center' finder' for scribing across round materiels, then a pair of 'Parallel' clamps'.

This would entail filing and marking out and drilling and small turning tasks.

Going on from that and make a 'Scribing block and scriber', turning and fitting of parts.

Further projects like making a 'Cylindical square' and even a 'Try Square', all leading up to a model that will give pleasure in making and running.

This 'Programme' would include a list of tools to buy like taps and dies and files and drills, including a 'How to do it' listing.

The tools all helping to make the model as a result of the whole experience.

Clive

Edited By Clive Hartland on 14/05/2012 07:53:25

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I think the point is to provide the website (modelforge.org?) and let anyone create a new project on it. Why restrict it? It would be a good idea to post some starter projects such as toolmakers clamps etc but the whole idea is to allow designs to evolve and provide an effective way for people to find, correct, and share errors (a/k/a “bugs”). The last thing we need is a committee deciding what should be available, though you do need a light touch moderator.

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

To get this project kick-started, all we need is someone to submit something that they are willing to share – good or bad, finished or not, it doesn't matter!

The whole point of these plans and models being open-source is that they will morph into something worthwhile and hopefully, with wide appeal.

I also agree with the comments of both Clive Hartland and John Haine.

Martin.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

But if they are bad and unfinished surely they are not fit for purpose ?

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by John Stevenson on 14/05/2012 10:06:55:

But if they are bad and unfinished surely they are not fit for purpose ?

LOL!!

Martin.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi John

They can be as bad as you like.

If they were perfect it would defeat the object as no one would be able to improve on them.

I will dig an unfinished project out.

I have just the thing.

regards David

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Parting off tool holder.

Here are three drawings of a parting off tool holder.

There is a main drawing and two others.

One has a short base for a long cross slide as fitted to a Super 7 and ML7R.

The other base is a long one is intended for an ML7 and the back of the parting off tool can hang off the back of the short cross slide.

I have DXF drawings if anyone would like them.

What has not been designed is the clamping system for the blade.

I would cut a recess below the blade to take a 3/32 x 1/2 inch piece of hardened gauge plate with the top edge angled slightly. I would put a couple of 3mm grub screws towards the top to tilt the blade square. All that is needed is a clamp system to fix the blade in place.

I might be able to photograph a body shortly, I know I have the short tool partially made.

I think I have the long one somewhere as well.

Over to you.

regards David

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

Four photos

This is the tool with a short base.

regards David

[KeithParticipant @keith]

With open source – there is a caveat – you are free to use it – copy it and modify it – but if you modify it you must also make your modifications available. This would also sound a good idea!

Keith

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Just love that use of metric dimensions on two drawings and imperial on the first nothing like it to confuse a beginner.

J

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Jason

The drawings were done at different times and were not intended to be used together.

Imperial was done first as a general idea.

Parts were done in metric but the upright was not finished.

regards David

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi there

Mounting bracket for Dremel.

regards David

 

 

Dremel bracket on ML7

 

Dremel bracket

 

Dremel bracket on ML10

Edited By David Clark 1 on 14/05/2012 17:27:00

[Chris CourtneyParticipant @chriscourtney72250]

The open source hardware is already a very active movement. It's main driver has been the introduction of lower cost 3D printers. There are a number of different types of licences that have been used, but they parallel the Open Source software licences. A brief description of Open Source hardware is given in Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_hardware and an example of a site devoted to Open source hardware models for 3D printing is: http://thingiverse.com

I think that David's idea has quite a lot of merit. Initially it is probably more appropriate for fairly simple models rather than a full scale locomotive design, but given time it could probably encompass more complex models.

The RepRap 3D printer movement  http://reprap.org  is entirely based on Open Source hardware and Software, you are free to take the designs and software and do what you want with them, including selling them for profit. The only provisions are that you must acknowledge the souce, and publish any improvement or changes you make, with the same license conditions.

Chris

 

Edited By Chris Courtney on 15/05/2012 10:31:33

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

The problem with mechanical things unlike software is that to add new facilities you sometimes have to totally redesign and rebuild previously made components. If the original designer has made allowances for this the person upgrading the design has to stay within the original design philosophy. So there is with mechanical things a great difficulty for purely ‘free flight’ development

Rdgs
Dick

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Just a thought :

Stop thinking about making hardware and do the entire collective design exercise in CAD live online .

Something like :

This or another site makes available a discussion area with facility for up/down loading and displaying CAD and with normal text posting facilites .

For each project a ' manager ' is found – just to collate incoming information and add any agreed modules or agreed changes to the parent drawings at different stages .

The basic proposal is put forward .

Ideas are bounced around .

Sketches are made – lots of them by different people .

Proposal drawings made – lots of them by different people .

Final drawings made and refined until everyone satisfied with result .

Notes :

Every thing is visible to all participants and to casual observers .

At any time information can be sought , calculations done and expert opinion obtained from any source – including in many cases from people not directly participating in project .

People with particular skills can volunteer to take on specific aspects of the work .

Error checking would be continuous and by many people including casual observers .

An important part of the discussion would be as regards how each part is made and any special tools and set ups needed and any involvement of CAM .

Projects could be at all levels of complexity but I suggest that in addition to various beginners projects the home workshop community could take on the significant challenge of designing something like a complete CNC milling machine or a complete scale diesel electric locomotive .

Michael Williams .

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Please have a look at my recent post on the "Milling Copper" thread.

Yes, I know that EDM WireCutting is probably the "right" approach, but …

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 04/07/2012 08:11:48

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