Open Source models

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Models created by user groups.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Open Source modelling

Hi There

First thing to do is to decide on a model to make. Also, tools are welcome.

I think a model suitable for beginners to model engineering,

Not a copy of a prototype.

Something of interest to many different people.

First we need to decide on a project

More than one project could be done at a time.

Please use this thread to discuss this. Put your reasons for and against suggested projects.

I think the first few projects should be beginner related.

Drawings should be in DXF format but can be posted here as jpeg.

I can probably host DXF drawings at http://www.ml7.co.uk

Over to you.

regards David

Edited By David Clark 1 on 12/05/2012 11:50:45

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Well as one who still prefers to draw on a board I won't be putting forward a design but If someone wants to convert something then I could come up with a simple engine, There is one of the little Muncaster sketches that I have wanted to do for years.

A few things that should be bourne in mind if the design is for a beginner.

-Should be within the capacity of a small mini lathe

-Any milling should be able to be done on the lathe

– No castings needed with the exception possibly of a flywheel as a number of suppliers now do these quite cheaply

– Probably metric as most newcommers will have been educated using that system

_ An air or steam power source would require slightly looser tollerances than IC.

 

J

Edited By JasonB on 12/05/2012 13:15:15

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

I think an open-source model is a good idea.

How about Tich? Is it old enough to be in the public domain? Have thought about doing the dxf drawings for it.

I'm actually off to California for work, with the Q1 drawings from Polly in my suitcase in order to re-draw them.

Seems strange to me that:

– I get to order printed copies of dxf drawings and have them sent overseas;

– they are printed in a scale still to be determined (NOT as indicated on the drawing; obviously scaled down for printing) ;

– I get to re-enter them as dxf drawings, and get to check and re-check my drawings.

It would be simpler and easier to just have dxf drawings.

Another JohnS.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Well, being open-source anyone can put forward a model, we don't have to choose! Lots of good suggestions above to get things started.

The other important thing is the copyright licence under which the design is published. This sounds boring but is vital. There are several models from open-source software, I'll do some digging around and suggest something if you like?

John.

[magpieParticipant @magpie]

Interesting that the only things sujested so far are steam power or IC engines. This may come as a suprise to most members, but there are other things to make models of.

Cheers Derek

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Only one thing has actually been suggested a steam loco, I just pointed out that steam or air power are a bit more forgiving from a beginner than IC or Sterling. I would have thought that most want something that actually does something at the end of the day.

Can you suggest these other things?

J

[Geoff TheasbyParticipant @geofftheasby]

I am building a Stan Bray Opus Proximum. I am building it very slowly. It is from The Best of Model Engineer Vol. 1. I like to think at length about what I am about to do, and then try it. Hopefully this will result in a working model.

Regards

Geoff

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Geoff, If you have not seen it there is a good build description here of Opus Proximum which may be of use.

J

[Flying FiferParticipant @flyingfifer]

Hi David,

This, though a good idea, already looks likes it is going to be "designed by commitee" & at the moment it seems that the commitee can`t even decide what to produce ! Strangely enough today I have been thinking along similar lines in trying to help "apprentices" or newbies or those who have bought a lathe/mill/drill whatever & want to learn how to use them.

What I thought was, to set them a small simple task, (nothing complicated) give them a list of items(tools & material) which was all they could use then let them think about how to do the task. They would have 7 days in which to post their answers & DURING THIS TIME WE OLD F***S WOULD LEAVE THE THREAD ALONE. After that period of time the OF`s could discuss the pros & cons of each answer. This hopefully may show them that there are often many different ways to do a specific job & also encourage them in what I call TOOTB.

NO prizes for deciphering TOOTB.

Alan

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

This thread has only been going for a few hours.

Perhaps it is too soon to decide what to do as a first project.

regards David

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

As the first design is to be aimed at beginners maybe a few could chip in and say what sort of thing they would like to see as there is little point in designing something that no one is going to have a go at making.

J

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

How about providing a set of drawings linked to MEW. Following the "Engineering for Beginners" series by Mick Knights for instance.

Everyone needs to start somewhere, and we all need decent toolmakers clamps, calipers, odds and ends.

cheers

Bill Pudney

[1Participant @1]

To respond to Jason's point, I consider myself to be the kind of modeller who would be interested in making something as proposed.
My experience over my first 12 months or so follows probably a standard learner's path, ie some projects from Harold Halls book "Lathework A Complete Course", a wobbler built from stock materials with the aid of a detailed build guide and currently a nearly complete Stuart 10V with the aid of the build guide and Harold's articles in Model Engineer. Along the way I have made and adapted some tooling and fixtures.
For my next project I did consider the Portable but having read the first few articles decided against it and instead I have lined up Bogs Moore's Paddleduck twin which also has a detailed build guide available.
I have an interest in stationery steam engines and would be drawn to something a little more advanced than the 10V, using stock materials so that mistakes are cheaply overcome, that doesn't require a boiler certificate but will "run" when completed. I would consider an item of workshop equipment but probably not a piece of inert tooling.
I look forward to the team's suggestions.

Jim

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

As this isn't a 'one and only' chance to come up with something, I suggest having a couple of easy things in there for the rank begginer to make that he/she can't really fail at, but still requires careful execution to look professionally made and comply with the plan.

So how about some drawings for a centre-punch and a set of drifts, probably like most of us made at school or college? Simple things maybe, but very useful about the workshop, whilst construction also covers knurling, taper turning and hardening & tempering etc, so a varied range of skills are execised too. Just the sort of things to cut your teeth on and it doesn't really matter if the sizes are a bit out.

Martin.

[John Somers 2Participant @johnsomers2]

Jason and Geoff

and all others who clicked on Jason's link in the expectation of seeing my build guide on Stan Bray's Opus Proximum vertical mill engine. The link has now been fixed or you could go direct http://start-model-engineering.co.uk/category/opus-proximum/

sorry about that – sometimes making a start in model engineering seems a lot easier than setting up a website !

John

 

Edited By John Somers 1 on 13/05/2012 05:59:03

Edited By John Somers 1 on 13/05/2012 06:00:43

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I think the first few projects should be beginner related

 

That Elmers tiny someone mentioned recently looked like a great starter engine

10 parts, all from small barstock

Don't know about the legal stuff though

 

Can be run easily on air and there seem to be a bunch of them on youtube if you have any problems

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPWjqj_3cxg

Edited By Ady1 on 13/05/2012 06:40:47

[Stewart HartParticipant @stewarthart90345]

Could some one explain what is ment by :- Open Source models

Or have I missed something,

I can be a bit slow on the uptake sometimes.

Stew

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

It means there are no legal issues and you can modify it in any way you want to

 

Like open source software

Edited By Ady1 on 13/05/2012 06:44:15

[Geoff TheasbyParticipant @geofftheasby]

Jason and John, thank you for that, I have only made the frames to date, and am now working on the crankshaft bearings. I will bear in mind your comments about the valve.

Regards

Geoff

Edited By Geoff Theasby on 13/05/2012 14:13:36

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Posted by Ady1 on 13/05/2012 06:42:14:

It means there are no legal issues and you can modify it in any way you want to

Like open source software

Edited By Ady1 on 13/05/2012 06:44:15

Like Stewart, I am unsure what open source really means in relation to modelmaking. I can see its wrong to make photocopies of commercially sold plans or drawings and sell them or use them to build a model. Even so if the resulting model is only for that individuals private use (would that include displaying it I wonder?) then probably no laws have been broken.

To clear up my confusion please could someone explain clearly what an open source model is? or are we just talking about a set of plans created by a joint effort that have no copyright?

Ian

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

We just talking about a set of plans created by a joint effort that have no copyright.

You can buld a model from published plans but can't build several and sell them.

Open source models is a new idea so any thoughts are welcome.

The basic idea is that the model (project) is buitl and added to by anybody who wishes to.

regards David

[VersabossParticipant @versaboss]

My Open Source definition:

When Mr. Webster publishes a crappy plan (and gets paid for it) and Mr. Jason makes the necessary corrections (for free)!

Greetings, Hansrudolf

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Ian,

You are permitted to make a photocopy of a page (or similar) for personal research purposes, that is why public libraries allow you to use their photocopier. Talk to the Librarian to be told the limitations. I never take original drawings into the workshop for obvious oilly reasons.

[Sam StonesParticipant @samstones42903]

A clock, c1972

Sam

[Author]

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