Old lathes

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

I enjoyed the eating of Elephants in ME. Partly the writing style and partly because it was done on an old lathe.

I do keep thinking about buying an old lathe to "play with".

Looking on a well known auction site for old Drummonds I am surprised what is being asked for them. I thought that something like a B ought to be about £200 or less for something that is still working, although may need some fettling. Many are asking more than double this. Some claim to be restored, but often this appears to mean they have been painted.

One looked very cheap, but has no saddle, crossslide or tool post, but thats not that obvious from the description and the photos are pretty bad. I assume that these parts being missing mean that it is only fit for spare parts.Although not much, it would cost more to fetch it.
Another has damage to the T slots the topslide bolts onto, how serious is this? Been stripped for painting, always a concern if one has been painted.But the price seems OKish.
Others are either too expensive or sold as spare / repair for well over £299.
Sold listings do make it seem that my £200 is realistic. Once you get a lot more than that a new chinese one looks attractive.
Is my £200 a realistic price?

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

Their value?

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Depends upon the condition, a decent one with all the bits £3-500+

ML7s can command silly money but the buyers market is there

One at a good price always pops up eventually but you have to check daily then pounce

My first knackered one was 125, my 2nd fabby one was 350

Edited By Ady1 on 11/09/2023 19:00:04

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

If you are looking for an old lathe to play with a less well known make may be a cheaper option.
With Drummonds the price can vary depending on the inclusion of a tray, motor, treadle, stand, changewheels.

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

My Drummond Roundbed was £25 on eBay with a cracked saddle.

A replacement saddle spotted on eBay a couple of months later before I got chance to have the original welded was £21 so the bare lathe with a small 3 jaw and a full set of change wheels stands me at £46 so there are bargains out there if you are prepared to wait.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Does "P;lay with" mean restore, or actuallt use?

How old is "old"?

Drummonds could be over 100 years old, A Myford ML7 could be anything up to 75 years old.

A Myford ML1,2, 3 or 4 will be older than that.

Suitably set up quite useable machines, although, possibly withe exception of the ML7, accessories may be hard to find to equip the machine fully. ML7 geras are almost identical to those on the earlier MLs so can be modified very easily.

The problem might be obtaining Whitworth or BA form hardware. You might find yourself in the "Chicken and egg" situation of needing to get the machine operable to make what is needed!

Capscrews and grubscrews are the most likely to cause a problem. Hexagon nuts, bolts and setscrews should be fairly easy to make.

Some might regard a 20 or 30 year old machine, probably from the Orient, as old, but with so many being badge engineered, spares from other lool alikes, or even later machines, may be available.

Good work can be done on an old machine, once set up and operated, correctly.

OK, they may not be suitable for the high speeds to optimise carbide tips, but HSS is possibly superior to what was available when they first left the factory.

Howard

[Lee RogersParticipant @leerogers95060]

The problem with ebay prices is that people who know nothing about what they have see a good condition machine with a ton of accessories sold at 500 and think ,YES , it's the same as mine. What they have is clapped out , abused , missing parts and rusty to boot. A good Drummond M Type is better than an ML7 but just try finding a good one. My Drummond Admiralty Bs Type of 1913 is great fun to use and capable within its limits. Tweeking it to get it on song takes time but twice the time is twice the fun to me.Not for some but we all pursue the hobby to please ourselves.

[brickyParticipant @bricky]

I owned a model B Drummond which had had one owner and bought new for 13 GBP in 1920 I aqhired it as original with treadle ,it was stil a very accurate machine but and I made a nose piece to screw on top of the screw to take my Myford fittings.I needed the room so advertised it at 150GBP with no takers so I scrapped it for 20quid.I kept the full set of change wheels to use on a dividing head I made ,I still have the mandrel bearings and mandrel also the nose piece I made .If any one wants these items please contact me.

Frank

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by File Handle on 11/09/2023 18:35:39:

…

I do keep thinking about buying an old lathe to "play with".

Looking on a well known auction site for old Drummonds I am surprised what is being asked for them.

…
Is my £200 a realistic price?

I like to think about Requirements before buying anything. In this case, a dirt cheap lathe to 'play with'.

I guess the desire for a Drummond is simply that they are a well-known make, a cut above the many cheaper British hobby lathes sold before WW2. Many alternatives to Drummond if the requirement is for cheap lathe to play with – don't box yourself in. Well-known names tend to push prices up when all that really matters is condition. The availability of spares and accessories is also a concern.

Second-hand lathes sell for whatever people are prepared to pay for them. £200 is a problem because plenty of people are prepared to pay more. At auction stuff only goes for a song if no-one else wants it, and £200 isn't much when others are bidding. Deceased workshop sales are a good bet, because executors are often in a hurry to clear the house to sell it. Not having the time or inclination to sort grandad's much loved tools means the whole lot can be sold very cheaply or even dumped.

My chief regret about getting into the hobby was the time wasted dithering about which lathe to buy. Eventually I decided I was serious and coughed up for a new mini-lathe. I never regretted it. It's vices and virtues taught me a lot. Chief failing was it turned out to be too small for the type of work I wanted to do. Had I bought a WM250-sized machine, I'd probably still be using it. As is I replaced the mini-lathe with a WM280, which is the biggest I could get into my workshop.

I suggest learners are better off starting on a lathe in reasonable condition. Second-hand is risky – the lathe may be too far gone. It's the machine's history that matters, not who made it. Not all owners take good care of their tools, and many lathes were worked hard in the past.

A Chinese Lathe bought in the UK from a reputable supplier may be somewhat rough, but can be sent back if a lemon turns up.

Dave

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Strangely there are many more old lathes that are not part of the Myford family and therefore do not carry the silly pricing that vendors put on paint pot restorations.

You £200 may still be reasonable if you just keep searching ebay for something fairly local.

This Raglan will probably not attract bids as it's all dirty and some may be scrap in that last bucket.

This from Ming the Merciless may be a lemon – only used twice could mean there's something wrong that should have been fixed by the maker – (note he doesn't say it works) but was shipped direct from China so no comeback due to shipping.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

All of my lathes, mills and shapers are "old" – although most not as old as I am.

They were mostly acquired at a time when they were the best I could afford. I've spent a considerable amount of time fixing some of the problems or making tools and accessories for them. These days (with children long left home and the mortgage paid off) I can probably afford better. But in many ways, I've already made my "investment" (e.g. in the time and effort spent) and there is not so much to be gained by replacing anything now.

Plus, I will admit that working on my machinery has probably become something of a hobby for me in it's own right. I also know my machines pretty well by now and can work with any limitations. So a very battered Super 7 purchased from Myford (after some haggling with Mr Moore) at Guildford many years ago for a few hundred pounds, is now perfectly useable but it has quite a few parts on it now that weren't there back then. But that was time and money spread out over 20 plus years…

But for others new to this hobby, your tools will normally just be that, the means to make what you actually want. So if you can, buy new or quality used machinery. Don't waste your money (and more importantly your precious time) on cheap tools that will distract you from your ultimate goals.

Regards,

IanT

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

My ultimate goal with my first lathe was doing a few bits for fishing stuff… then I fell into an abyss which has only been tempered by my determination to only use easily portable machine tools

If you move up a notch then the world of boxfords etc opens up, there's a south bend with a bunch of bits at 150 on ebay atm

Edited By Ady1 on 12/09/2023 14:19:15

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Dave Halford on 12/09/2023 10:31:34:

Strangely there are many more old lathes that are not part of the Myford family and therefore do not carry the silly pricing that vendors put on paint pot restorations.

You £200 may still be reasonable if you just keep searching ebay for something fairly local.

This Raglan will probably not attract bids as it's all dirty and some may be scrap in that last bucket.

This from Ming the Merciless may be a lemon – only used twice could mean there's something wrong that should have been fixed by the maker – (note he doesn't say it works) but was shipped direct from China so no comeback due to shipping.

The Raglan may be a good buy. I am presently watching it – just to see if it gets any bids. If it were not to get any bids (snd I had any space left🙁 ) I would have considered making an offer It is also encouraging offers – so might well settle for less. Again, condition is everything. That it is equipped withva QCGB would be an added attraction for any would-be Raglan user.

I bought a lathe – much like that – to replace what I considered to be a previous poor-choice chinese lathe. I was quite content with the Raglan but eventually upgraded to the 5” Raglan. The 5” will be my last lathe – it has several improved attributed but I enjoyed my Mkll, all the same. Streets ahead of a fymord, IMO.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

I was involved with a 5" Raglan owned by a friend (Made a 4 way toolpost for it to mount on the compound slide )

Was very impressed by it. With a compl,ete set of changewheels and the QCG, it it was an extremely versatile machine. (Also had a set of collets, and a taper tuirning attachment.)

Wish that I'd known about such machines before buying my ML7. But it got me going to bring back memories from being an Apprtentice.

Howard

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

I agree that the raglan could be a good buy with a bit of work. I might have been tempted to put in a cheeky bid, but its location puts me off. Will keep looking. I must admit that I am not totally sure why I was looking at Drummond Bs, the comments above have made me have a rethink, will keep looking. Thanks for all of the comments, they have helped me clarify things.

[Benedict WhiteParticipant @benedictwhite51126]

There are often old lathes at surprisingly good prices on Facebook market place.

[Dave WoottonParticipant @davewootton]

There is a Drummond M type on a stand with motor and chucks on the Lathes UK site, it's being sold for charity at £300 or offers, and it's been on there a while. Obviously depending on your location could be worth a phone call over budget but the money goes to a good cause.

[stephen goodbodyParticipant @stephengoodbody77352]

Hi there, and glad that you enjoyed the Elephants series.

Two things to consider if you're looking for a second hand lathe are: (a) what items does it come with? and (b) can I still obtain suitable extras from other sources if I might need them?

In my view, as a bare minimum you'll need a three jaw chuck with both inside and outside jaws (for round things) and ideally a four jaw chuck for turning non-round items. You'll also need a tool holder and a few basic tools (high speed steel (HSS) would be my preference for starting out), and ideally a drill chuck for the tailstock too. Others may disagree, but to me that would be the absolute bare minimum; everything included beyond that is a bonus.

Beyond the lathe itself, don't forget you'll also need a bench grinder to keep your tools sharp, and its grinding wheels must be appropriate for the type of tools you have. Notably, tungsten carbide tools are harder than HSS tools and can't be sharpened on the type of wheel that likely comes with an off-the-shelf bench grinder, so you'll likely need to buy an additional grinding wheel to fit to one end of the grinder if you have carbide tools.

As you know, I was fortunate to acquire a great deal of tooling with the lathe itself, which has enabled me to do everything covered in the articles and more besides. Much of that tooling would have been likely impossible to obtain after-the-fact, given the age of the lathe, and were the lathe younger and the tooling still available then those tools and attachments would likely have cost many hundreds of pounds more and would not have been immediately to hand when I needed them.

Best of luck with your search, and I'm immensely pleased that the article has inspired you to have a go!

Cheers

Steve

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

FH,

You have a PM. Please reply.

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

Posted by not done it yet on 15/09/2023 13:37:57:

FH,

You have a PM. Please reply.

Replied, Thanks for your message.

[Author]

Posts