Oil

[Matt ReidParticipant @mattreid59859]

Hi looking for information on oil for ways I am in UK Scotland so need be able to buy here need recommendations as to what I should use on ways and main shaft also how much do you need when running drops per miniute from drip oiler thanks hope yous can help

[Matt ReidParticipant @mattreid59859]

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Matt

Many years ago Castrol Technical Dept advised me to use Magna BD68 as way oil and Hyspin AWS 32 as bearing and headstock oil for my SouthBend 9" lathe.

So far as I could tell these were good choices as they worked well on that machine and all subsequent ones.

Reading oil specifications with more experienced eyes in later years they seem pretty middle of the range of commonly specified machine tool lubricants.

Apparently BD68 is (was?) considered a multipurpose slideway, low speed bearing and low speed gear oil rather than a pure way oil. As such its a bit less sticky than the full fat versions so more suitable for lighter machinery. Full on way oil tends to be too sticky for small machinery. BD 68 still strings well between gears and hangs on decently so you don't need a lot on the drop gear train. Also good on feed screws.

I also use BD68 for general purpose "honey doo" type household jobs like hinges et al as it doesn't drip and stays well once worked in. But it does need working in.

Clive

[David Maynard 4Participant @davidmaynard4]

Clive

I've been using Chain Saw anti fling oil for the ways on my Praezimat – did I do wrong??

David

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

The type of oil you use is not critical, as long as you use some kind of oil. I've been using engine oil on my old Drummond's ways and bearings for 50 years without ill effect.

What most manufacturers recommend is basically the same as hydraulic oil. You can buy this locally as air compressor oil or tractor hydraulic oil.

Or you can pay the price and buy specialised machine tool way oils and the like via the internet or you local oil depot.

I set my drip oilers at one to two drops a minute.

Chainsaw bar oil is probably a good choice for ways too. Sticks well without being too sticky.

On the lathe's change gears, I use spray on motorcycle chain lube becuase it sticks super well and does not fling off.

[David Maynard 4Participant @davidmaynard4]

Thanks Hopper – I'll carry on as I don't have drip feeds!

David

[clogsParticipant @clogs]

did say before, had a metal cupboard full of weird and wonderful oils n grease's……..

had to downsize due to a big move……and sick of the fluff n mess anyway……

Now only use Synthetic engine oil on all oiling points inc bedways…..inc the oil pump system on the Bridgeport…..

Chain Saw oil on the back gears (just a Few drops)…..

and if there is a proper gearbox (Colchester Student) I use the RED Auto trans fluid in there…..

it's ANTI-FROTHING….

also ripped out the useless ball bearing oil caps on my Myford and replaced them with tiny oil droppers where room permits and disc magnets where not….just fill em full every day I use the machine…

was never happy with the oiling arrangement on the end bearings on the Student (the lead screw, tailsock end &nbsp

so drilled and tapped another oil hole and put drippers on there…..now I can see oil ouze from the bearings……

[Leo F Byrne 1Participant @leofbyrne1]

I just use random engine oil in my ML7 QC gearbox. I got fed up with the old oilers, which never seemed very efficient, and use the Arceurotrade one-shot oiling system. I like it!

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

David

As Hopper says for our levels of use pretty much any half logical choice of oil will do the deed. But I used to earn my living as a scientist / R&D Engineer so talking to tech reps first was almost instinct.

Of course that was way before every other person had a chainsaw and pretty much anything could be quickly got by mail order. Back then about all you could easily find local would be the basic petrol filling station and car spares stock stuff or 3in1 from the DIY and bicycle shops.

Always remember a mates reaction when the local motorcycle dealer started selling front fork oil in three grades

"They make fork oil! How much!! You gotta be 'kin joking! Whats wrong with ATF."

Of course down my way ATF in small bottles was a special order item then. Fork oil was, and still is, just ISO hydraulic oil in small bottles with a very big mark up.

Not so sure about ATF in a lathe. Its not really an "oil" more a mix of lots of oily stuff. Theoretically Dextron 3 and 4 is around SAE 10 but that is specified at 100°C. ATF is formulated to have a very stable viscosity from around 60°C to 110°C but it can be about 10 times thicker at 0°C and maybe 4 or 5 times thicker at 20°C. Typical graph on this page **LINK** , click on it to get a readable size version.

Hydraulic oils have a much steeper viscosity change with temperature curve but they are specified to operate at 40°C, see the graph at the bottom of this page **LINK**, and being much simpler mixes are well behaved at different temperatures. Hydraulic oils are anti-foam and have anti wear additives too.

But ultimately the specifics don't really matter. Oily is good, dry is bad, dry'n swarf worse and grinding dust a hanging offence.

Clive

Edited By Clive Foster on 12/05/2020 09:34:02

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Have always used engine oil. You don't need the anti froth, anti acid viscosity improver additives, but they are freely available in sensible quantities, without any big mark ups.

Our machine are unlikely run at the speeds, loads and temperatures that call for special grades of oil.

For gears, I would probably use a EP90 gear oil, but that is probably an overkill, in reality..

I was given an aerosol of some black sticky gear lubricant. That seems to have stayed in place for a LONG time, so maybe something like the oil for motor cycle chains may be suitable.

But gear oil will be the "top up" medium.

HTH

Howard

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

In medium sized towns you will probably find a small back street or industrial estate place that is supplying the local garages and engineers with their consumables but doesn't have a shop front for retail. They might be awkward though and only deal with account holders.

Hydraulic oil is intended to be pumped around a lot like water but without the corrosion effect of plain water – hence thin, the clue is in the name.
ATF is for automatic gearboxes which need the properties of oil for lubrication but needs to be thin for the little pumps and piston actuators, and in some needs to be pumped to an oil cooler so it is a compromise of properties making it thin but still oily.
Engine oil is expected to get hot within 5 minutes of being used so it's properties are designed for that but being thick at cold start up is a useful side effect of making sure it hasn't all drained away for the first ten revolutions. It is also designed to cope with all that crap that gets scraped off the cylinder walls – no other machine use has to cope with that. For simplicity it used to be used for plain gearboxes when cars had rear wheel drive.
Heavy oils without the combustion tolerant additives (EP90) just lubricate gears without any fancy pretentions but are a bit thick as they are not in a hurry to go anywhere.
Chain oils are designed to hang on for dear life while going round the Alton Park helter skelter ride.

So look at each application and decide whether it looks like a washing machine, a gearbox, a bonfire, or an outdoor amusement and choose accordingly.

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

I certainly would not use chainsaw bar lubricant,evil stuff works ok in my medium sized Stihl but genuine Stihl oil will not flow easily through the pump on the smallest Stihl both were new , so use engine oil instead.a friend who services saws and other machinery sometimes finds old sump oil in the chain lube resevoir ,thats really being tight with the cash. really sticky oils on open gearing can attract dust and other rubbish ,form a grinding paste and wear the gears out. I used hydraulic oil on my Colchesters headstock and gearbox as per instructions ,reasonably priced when buying 20 or 25 litres. Over the years,as Colchester headstock speeds have really increased all they have done have used the same type of oil just a thinner viscosity. I use 10/40 good grade motor oil in the saddle and slides . I was given some new oil suitable for use in 1920s vehicle ie no additives, when that mixes with soluble it makes saddle movement stiff.

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

Hydraulic oil is intended to be pumped around a lot like water but without the corrosion effect of plain water – hence thin, the clue is in the name.

Hydraulic oil is so much more than that, plus it comes in a range of viscosities like most oils – my supplier at work lists ISO viscosities from 5 to 220 !

Hydraulic oil also has to maintain it's viscosity through a range of operating tempetaures, includes anti-frothing additives, corrosion inhibiters & extreme pressure additives to lubricate pumps, motors & actuators which often operate at extreme pressures. As well as being used in hydraulic systems it is also regularly specified as a gearbox lubricant in machine tools (typically 32 or 46 viscosity) and sometimes for slideway lubrication.

If you wanted to splash out on just one bottle of "special" oil for a hobby sized machine, a bottle of ISO 46 hydraulic oil would do a pretty good job for all applications.

Nigel B.

[Anonymous]

As per the manual I use an ISO220 oil in the screwcutting gearbox on my lathe and an ISO68 hydraulic oil for the headstock. For slideways I use an ISO68 slideway oil. A slideway oil is stringy but not sticky; it's designed to minimise stiction.

Andrew

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

+1 for what Andrew says.

These days its so easy to order something of the correct specification or, if obsolete, a sufficiently close match for the job. So it makes no sense to scrabble round for something near enough you think might do that can be bought from a shop next time you are in the right part of town.

Especially as even the apparently unsophisticated oils have additive packs specific for their duties.

Regrettably the small back street or industrial estate supplier seems to be alluded to by Bazyle seems to be heading rapidly to extinction. Must be 20 years or so since the last that I knew of around here shut down. That damn virus will probably be the final straw that kills the shops and pushes it on line.

Two or three bottle of the right stuff is hardly going to break the bank. A bit different if you have stocks but if you have stocks, like clogs did, it may make sense to use what you have. But realistically the saving isn't worth it. Objectively as a major saving type guy (OK OK hoarder) I need a major clear out of all sorts of stuff kept primarily because it used to be difficult to get anything out of the ordinary in much under a fortnight. Thge world has changed in the last 20 years.

Your basic, simple, plain old oily oil shuffled off stage round about the time Duckhams 20/50 abandoned short pants for proper grown up long trousers. Not that I recall seeing Duckhams on a shelf this side of the millennium.

Clive

Edited By Clive Foster on 12/05/2020 11:38:48

[Andy StopfordParticipant @andystopford50521]

I've heard it said that some additive in EP oils attacks bronze components (that said, I've seen synchromesh cones made of something bronzey-looking). This warning might only apply to the notoriously short-lived bronze worm drives which were (long ago) used in some lorries.

EP also smells horrid (ditto ATF).

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Plain SAE 90 should be OK for your gears.

It,s the additives in the Hypoid and Extreme Pressure oils that may attack yellow metals.. It used to be that Hypoid rear axles were factory filled with an oil that was particularly active, to help the gears bed in, and this was drained and replaced at the first service.

Howard

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

It’s always best to check but I think current formulations of EP oils are yellow metal safe, I would check further than just reading the label on the container.

Mike

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Not much point in using EP oils in lathes. Extreme Pressure additives are there for when you have 400 horsepower going through a tranny at 8,000rpm etc so might be a bit of overkill on a a 1hp 1,000rpm lathe gearbox. Plus the stuff smells bad and permeates the whole workshop. And viscosity-wise, EP90 gear oil is about the same as 20/50 engine oil which is about the same as ISO 46 hydraulic oil. They all use three different grading systems so the numbers mean nothing comparatively. But if you do use EP oils, get a new container and not an old one out of the back of the shed from 20 years ago as modern EP oils have the sulfur de-activated so it does not attack brass and bronze etc.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

I have been using fully synth stuff like Mobil 1. If its good for 1000bhp skyline engines its good for 1hp lathes.

Steve.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Synth engine oil is good. Doesnt go gummy over time.

[Matt ReidParticipant @mattreid59859]

Guys a lot of different options on oil think will go for fully sync and set oilers 2 drops per miniute for head stock and oil ways with same could use some new oil wick whare can I get it from thanks matt

[Graham WhartonParticipant @grahamwharton]

Why spend more on EP gearbox oils, when cheaper hydraulic oils are much better for your machine, your hands, and much cheaper.

Also why use engine oil with its nasty detergents which is designed to keep contaminants in suspension to be filtered out by the car engine oil filter (which all of your lathes have…. right?), when what you really want in a lathe is contaminants to sink to the bottom.

Lube Finder sell a large range of oils in 1L bottles.

 

 

 

Edited By Graham Wharton on 16/05/2020 11:50:03

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Looks like there can be issues with wick feeding modern oils too.

Industrial system suppliers seem to offer several types of wick and suggest that the type of wick be matched to to the oil and the supply rate needed. How important the distinction is for folk like us I know not but personally I'd not care to risk inadvertently choosing the worst possible combination.

Clive

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

OK, I admit it – I'm feeling grumpy, but I wasn't until I read this thread.

This discussion has surely been done to death several times already on this forum. There are two camps. One advocates expensive lubricants, designed for high-performance internal combustion engines, or high-duty transmissions, and also favours chain-bar oil 'because it's sticky'. In the latter case, why not use strawberry jam or honey? The other camp patiently repeats fact-based rational arguments. It's like Trump versus the scientists.

I'd imagine that the machine tool manufacturers and lubricant blenders know more about machine tool lubrication than anyone on this forum, so why not take their advice? The lubricants are entirely appropriate and are not expensive. There is no convincing argument to do otherwise.

You could probably get away with using anything vaguely oily in our little, lightly-stressed machines, and this is why the 'I've used old sump oil all me life and it's fine' type of argument gets rolled out tiresomely. However, if you have well-fitted, correctly adjusted slides, the advantage of proper slideway oils, which are designed to minimize the stick-slip phenomenon becomes apparent. A sometimes dramatic example of where this can be very important is in a shaper's ram. And the argument, previously made, against detergent oils is to be emphasized. So it's 'hydraulic' oil and 'way oil', as has been detailed previously. OK?

Edited By Kiwi Bloke on 16/05/2020 12:56:44

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