Novice beginner

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Terry when doing traction engine wheels you can’t get at the rivits with a ball pein hammer you have to use a snap and even then they often need turning down to reduce the diameter.

 

On larget engines it often necassary to use intermediate snaps with a conical recess before going to the full rounded snap.

 

And you should also “set” the rivit before forming the head.

 

J

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Jason,

 

Of course I should have mentioned the use of accurate holes and the use of a set, but I’m guilty of taking things for granted again. I must admit that I was thinking of the larger scales where the use of even a modified 2oz ball peen can make all the difference to proper riveting.

 

Best regards

 

terry

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I think you would be there for ever with a 2oz hammer and still would not get at the rivit and you could work harden it with lots of little blows. Take a look at these snaps, they originally had tapered ends which I have turned parallel and I even had to grind down one side to avoild the strake & tie plate rivits. You would only get to one side of the rivit with a hammer which would just fold it over.

 

J

[TrevorhParticipant @trevorh]

Many thanks for all of the input, What I will do is this weekend experiment with a combination of using a drift to start the profile of the rivet and then use the dolly to finish it off after first profiling the dolly as per your phot’s jason

 

I will let you guys know what happens

 

cheers

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Jason,

 

I did a lot of riveting in my 25+ years of workshop teaching and never had a problem with work hardening of soft iron rivets. I can confirm that even with a 20z hammer it doesn’t take many blows to shape the head of a 3/32 rivet. It is a matter of skilful use rather than brute force.  It’s much the same as watching a skilled carpenter hammer in a 6″ nail, he will do with 3 or 4 skilful blows whereas a do-it-yourselfer will take many more tentative blows (and often bend it).

 

Regards

 

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 10/02/2011 10:02:08

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Was the 2oz hammer a typo then Terry? I see you are now talking about a 20oz which is not a toffy hammer.

 

I would think Kerbt is using 5/32 or even 3/16 rivits on a 3″ engine, on these and 4″ its more a case of a 2 1/2lbs lump hammer. Buy the time Hes done one wheel the others will seem easy as if its the same as my Fowler there are 244 rivits in each back wheel, 280 in the tender and 260 in the hornplates

 

And being a joiner/cabinet maker I can hit a nail OK, though thend to use a nail gun for first fix now.

 

J

Edited By JasonB on 10/02/2011 17:39:28

[TrevorhParticipant @trevorh]

I’m actually using 1/8″ copper rivets cut down to size, and giving them a slap with a 1 1/2 lb ball pain but that’s not important right now.

 

the heating of the rivets doesn’t involve any burn’t fingers as i am only heating the top that requires to be formed and it certainly helps to get the desired finish, As Jason suggested it is definately easier modifying the snap to miss the edge of the aluminium cast wheel

 

Got say that I didn’t expect this response on the subject but it just shows that there are many ways to “skin the cat”

 

cheers

[TrevorhParticipant @trevorh]

Hello all

time for the next question, I have now got to the stage of machining the front axal yoke and pinion . Which went quite well.

How do I secure the front axal yoke to the front axal?

 

The axal is a single machined piece of bright mild and the yoke is a plastow cast iron

 

Is there a preffered method because there are no suggestions on the plastow drawings

 

cheers

 

[WeldsolParticipant @weldsol]

I cross drilled mine 1/8″ dia and counter sunk both ends then loctite and one rivet peened over and filed flush ( Note mine was all fabricated from steel so you might want to be a bit careful when riveting onto your cast iron part)

 

Paul

[TrevorhParticipant @trevorh]

Thanks for the info

I might try using a couple of pins straight thro’ and like you peen the ends over and then dress it back a little

 

thanks

[TrevorhParticipant @trevorh]

Finished fitting the yoke last night, opted for 2 taper pins in opposite diretcions through the yoke and shaft

 

cheers

[TrevorhParticipant @trevorh]

New problem,

I need to drill through the shaft that the Perch bracket sits on its 3/4" dia

each time I try on a sample peice the drill runs out – off centre by the time it comes out the other side

any tips on how to keep the drill true as it drills

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

Drill should not wander if you use a sharp drill after a centre drill.

However, put the shaft in the dividing head, drill undersize halfway through, index 180 degrees and drill the other half.

Follow through with another undersize drill all the way through finish with size drill or ream.

regards David

 

 

Edited By David Clark 1 on 20/02/2012 11:08:49

[TrevorhParticipant @trevorh]

Hi David,

The only problem is I don't have a dividing head…

But thanks for the quick reply

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Do you have a boring head? that way you can drill through say 1/2" and then take the rest out in stages with the boring head which will run true.

If not again drill 1/2" or 5/8 and then plunge cut with a slot drill or even an end mill would do.

J

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Kerbtrawler

Are you trying to drill through a 3/4in. bar or drill a 3/4 hole through a bar or what?

regards David

[TrevorhParticipant @trevorh]

Sorry I should have been more clear I am trying to drill a 3/16" hole through a 3/4" round bar that also has a collar on it that measures 1 1/4" od

I have to put a retaining pin through them both, I will see if I can take a photo and post it

cheers

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi kerbtrawler,

Are you using a pillar drill and just lining up to a centre pop mark or are you using a milling machine with the 3/4" bar in a machine vice that has been accuratly aligned so the drill is centred on the bar. When you centre drill the bar go deep enough so that the countersunk pilot hole is almost 3/16" dia. to give the drill the best possible start. Drill the hole initially with the shortest drill you have that is just a little les than 3/16". (If you use a very small for the initial hole it is more likely to wander.) If I was doing this (Particularly if you are just using a pillar drill.) I would put the collar on the bar and drill both in the one operation. This means the holes will line up even if they are not accuratly through the centre of the bar. (This would not neccassarily be true if you then turned the collar through 180 Deg.)

Les

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Kerbtrawler.
That is what I thought, small hole.
Bore a square block out to fit on the bar, drill and tap and use a grub screw to nip the block to the shaft.

Put the bar in the vice, squaring up with a square.

Drill undersize halfway through, turn the bar and block over, drill through from the other side.

Drill through the collar, from both sides if neccesary.

Assemble both parts and open up to finished size.

regards David

[TrevorhParticipant @trevorh]

Now thats the kind of idea I can manage, I just couldn't get my head around how I could go 1/2 way, turn the job over and hope to hit the same spot.

Thank you very much for all of the suggestions, I will report back in the morning on how succesful it is

cheers

[TrevorhParticipant @trevorh]

Sorry,

forgot to say that Yes I am using a bench pillar drill with Added guidance that I have fitted to keep the mandrel true as there was a lot of movement even tho' it was new ( and cheap) ( and nasty)

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi kerbtrawler,

I notice from one of your first posts that you have a Warco GH1224 lathe and a vertical mill. I wonder why you do not use the mill ?

This is a variation of David's suggestion using your lathe. Mount the square bar on the cross slide of your lathe with suitable packing under it to bring it up to be about centred at centre height. (Mark it so you know which is the bottom surface. True it up with a dial guage to be parallel with the axis of the lathe. Move the cross slide to bring the square bar about centered in the horizontal direction and lock the cross slide. Now drill it with a drill in the lathe chuck and then bore it with a boring head or boring bar in the lathe chuck to 3/4" bore. Turn the square bar through 90 Deg on the cross slide USING THE SAME PACKING and the SAME SURFACE DOWN. Again check the alignment with a dial guage. Drill a hole and tap a hole in the block for a grub screw. If you now slide your 3/4" bar into the block and clamp it is exactly at centre height and at right angles to a drill in the lathe chuck. You should now be able to trill the hole exaclly on centre.

Les.

[TrevorhParticipant @trevorh]

Just reporting Back, Success

I varied the idea's and mounted the part onto an angle block which i fitted to the modified top slide of my Warco 1224 and used a centre bit in the chuck to spot the ring and then went through with a 3/16" and then finished it off with a No 11 drill

I had previously secured the ring to the shaft using Gorilla glue which gives just enough grip to keep it in place

I will post some other photo's once I know how

Many thanks for the idea's

Edited By kerbtrawler on 21/02/2012 09:09:53

[TrevorhParticipant @trevorh]

Here is what I did

There are a couple of more photo's showing the mod to the top slide and so on

cheers

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi kerbtrawler,

Glad you managed to do the job and in particular adapt an idea to suit the items to hand rather than just doing exactly as suggested.

Les.

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