Not the time to be complacent about Covid

[PatJParticipant @patj87806]

There wil be no end to it.

Once the politicians determine that they can force you do to anything/take anything they decide to dictate, then you are no longer a free person who can determine your own destiny.

You are their test animal, and if the tests don't work out, they have zero liability.

You on the other hand will be stuck with massive health bills (in the US) and/or funeral costs should you get the all to often massive blood clots or heart inflamation.

If the vax works so well, let them stand behind it, and accept liability or it.

Let them help and pay for the damage the vax is causing in so many people of all ages.

 

Just my 2 cents, to give you my line of reasoning, which is not based on fear, paranoia, ignorance, or any other irrational base.

Anti-vax is not anti-anything, but rather a common sense approach, to wait and see how clinical trials turn out for a new and untested drug of any type.

Common sense has perished in the rush to find a simple one-size-fits-all solution to a highly complex disease, and in the end, I think people will pay a terrible price for that (many already have, including children).

,

Edited By PatJ on 16/11/2021 20:02:38

Edited By PatJ on 16/11/2021 20:08:35

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Fortunately Darwinism will resolve the truth behind the beliefs of many.

One can hardly call a vaccine unproven when it has been administered to millions. While vaccine side effects occur they are mostly trivial, but social media does like to pump up the few serious or fatal cases. As for comments about genetic manipulated vaccines being something new – they are not. I was using sub-unit vaccines where a piece of relevant viral material is introduced into bacteria to make then generate an antigenic protein or vaccines where viral material was broken down and separated so only part of the virus was used to trigger an immune response – over 20 years ago in cats.

I find it surprising that folk who are sceptical about vaccine safety will happily self-medicate with a product that most respected organisations consider unproven. But then snake-oil salesmen have made fortunes for centuries with wild claims.

Misleading clinical evidence and systematic reviews on ivermectin for COVID-19

We are uncertain whether ivermectin reduces or increases mortality compared to no treatment

The only paper I found supporting Ivermectin

The weirdest aspect of this pandemic was the bizarre early advices given. It's self-evidently primarily a respiratory virus and spread initially by droplet and only secondarily from contaminated surfaces yet mainstream advice was hand-washing with only very late advice regarding masks and then poorly effective masks! Ventilation has always been the gold standard for prevention of respiratory disease in any factory farm.

I sourced a PP3 mask early on but do admit to downgrading (from looking like ant-man) now that I've had my vaccines. I do hope that hand sanitiser will be enforced forever in food shops, pandemic or not, when you see some of the customers in there.

pgk

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I think we should just get on with it now

Those who want to hide can hide and the rest of us can continue as before

I want xmas and the pub quiz back!

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Ady1 on 16/11/2021 22:53:31:

I think we should just get on with it now

Those who want to hide can hide and the rest of us can continue as before

I want xmas and the pub quiz back!

You can have Christmas. All of it. Forever. That would be worth a pandemic.

[PatJParticipant @patj87806]

The dishonesty of the main stream media is basically malpractice.

A story today mentions "…….in an attempt to force doctors to give her Ivermectin, a de-wormer".

The narrative that the MSM writes over and over is that Ivermectin is a horse dewormer.

But the truth (and fact that you will never read in the mainstream media) is that the folks who invented Ivermectin won the Nobel Prize for it, for use in humans, not horses, and it is on the list of the World Health Organization List of Essential Medicines (for humans).

Only a naive person would believe that any medicine can only be used for one discovered purpose, and only be used either on animals or humans, but not both.

I know that even if Ivermectin is proven beyond any shadow of a doubt by science to be an effective treatment for COVID, many would never accept that. Why is that?

And I know many who are vax'ed who hope that I and other un-vaxed die just so their point can be proven (that only the vax works).

Its not about saving lives, or treating disease, it is about being right, and insisting in forcing your vision of what is right on everyone else in society. It is a pathological thing in my opinion.

I personally hope that both the vax'ed and unvax'ed people all remain healthy and survive this thing called COVID.

I wish no ill feelings or harm on anyone else, regardless.

Can others make this statement with a clear conscience?

.

Edited By PatJ on 17/11/2021 00:18:13

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

The definition of being 'fully vaccinated' is going to be changed to include so called 'booster jabs'.

Stay safe, stay in, stay alone. …..

[PatJParticipant @patj87806]

One can hardly call a vaccine unproven when it has been administered to millions.

The fact that millions have taken the vaccine proves nothing.

Lots of people drank the Jim Jones coolaid, but they are not available for comments at this time.

Basic fallacy lesson 101: Everyone else is doing it, so it must be the right thing to do.

One large online media company in the US (I won't name it) shut down a 100,000 person chat about all the adverse affects and deaths that the vax was causing.

Why does this information have to be censored across all social media?

Wouldn't an open scientific mind want to read everything and decide for themselves?

I fully expect this thread (or at least my posts) will be deleted; it seems censorship is the new science these days.

Censor anything that goes against the "narrative".

.

.

 

Edited By PatJ on 17/11/2021 00:43:10

Edited By PatJ on 17/11/2021 00:44:01

Edited By PatJ on 17/11/2021 00:44:36

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by PatJ on 17/11/2021 00:42:44:

One can hardly call a vaccine unproven when it has been administered to millions.

The fact that millions have taken the vaccine proves nothing.

True, however my statement followed with " While vaccine side effects occur they are mostly trivial "

There are robust systems for adverse medicine reporting and serious studies of risk-benefits of vaccination as a result of those millions of doses. As indeed there are some for risk benefit of ivermectin and other therapies.

pgk

[PatJParticipant @patj87806]

I hear what you are saying, but I am not so convinced of the "trivial" part.

Only time will tell the full story.

My large extended family is divided like the Hatfields and McCoys, often within families.

I can't recall many things in my lifetime being so devisive and detrimental to family and relationships, except perhaps the Vietnam war. That divided a lot of folks in the US, mostly in a generational way (young vs old), mainly because the young got sent off, and came back six months later in a body bag.

I just missed that war.  I was about two years away from the draft when it ended, but I remember sitting up at night, wanting to defend freedom and country, but knowing how it would most likely turn out for me.

Let hope that COVID will soon become a distant memory, with no appreciable cases anywhere in the world.

That is my wish.

.

Edited By PatJ on 17/11/2021 08:58:29

Edited By PatJ on 17/11/2021 08:59:39

Edited By PatJ on 17/11/2021 09:01:05

Edited By PatJ on 17/11/2021 09:01:20

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Nothing like a good 'Conspiracy Theory' to start the mornings reading. I think PatJ has found most of them

John

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

I love the Americans,my late auntie married one & my uncle is still alive plus 2 cousins but by god they do like an alleged conspiracy whereas we in the UK don't. I have no idea who is right, perhaps a bit of both?

Tony

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Many thanks for your valued opinions Mr Rhodes, my comments re Smokers and Obesity were well documented at the time but your head must have been busily engaged in an internal inspection at that time.

Your last sentence I find rather contradictory but hey ho, that's only MY opinion. As a "Heartless idiot", my own choice to protect myself from the ministrations of other heartless idiots is obviously wrong. At this point in time, it's not Law but if it was changed would this make a difference? I think not, On the one hand, we have a "Choice" not to protect ourselves from something that can cause premature death but can't BY LAW choose death as an option.

Regards Ian. – – – – – A heartless idiot.

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

sorry, double clicked.

Edited By Circlip on 17/11/2021 09:46:29

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Gov. policy and the media tend to exert most of the cultural influence where individuals are concerned, which is why US citizens tend to be different in their outlook

The US media tends to exaggerate risk, so 50 Russian missiles in Cuba was going to be the end of the world while at the same time most of us in the west were surrounded by hundreds of missiles for 30 years which were 7 minutes away

Many of us wouldn't be here if it wasn't for vaccines, the chap who was credited with vaccines Edward Jenner has been credited with saving the second most humans in history, after a chap called Jesus

If Edward Jenner was a religion he would have 500 million plus followers once you factor in breeding rates

Life is risk and vaccines make life a bit less risky

Edited By Ady1 on 17/11/2021 09:54:47

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

Yes PatJ , the 'State' denied that 'contaminated blood ' brought misery and death to thousands from the 1960's onwards until people like me exposed the lies.

A girl-friend died because of it , transfused 1963 , died 1983.

And then there was Thalidomide, etc, etc.

[Mick HenshallParticipant @mickhenshall99321]

To PatJ, well said and I agreed with your comments, science should be about debate and alternative points of view

this appears to have been ruthlessly suppressed and only one narrative reigns supreme, as x military I have had many vaccines and I find the term "anti vaxer" insulting I want to see this one tested properly before I even consider having it, an attitude not unreasonable is it? As I see it no one shoud be coerced by for example no jab or no job– its an outrage

I wish everyone well

Mick

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

I would like to challenge the premise that because vaccines have been through a full and lengthy testing regime then they are considered 100% safe with no risks attached. When my eldest daughter was three months old, and this was in 1967, she had the first of her infant vaccinations, this caused her to have her a series of convulsions and left her partially paralysed. Some time after the event analysis showed that she was not unique, other families had suffered the same events and the “problem” was officially classified as vaccine damage, this was from a proprietary vaccine which I would assume PatJ would accept as fully tested through a lengthy programme and deemed “safe”. There is no such animal as a 100% safe vaccine, but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be vaccinated, there is risk in anything that we do in life, the percentage risk in having Covid vaccines has been demonstrated to be such a minuscule percentage of the total number of vaccinations given that it is virtually unrecordable. The risk of problems with a Covid vaccine if displayed alongside other conventional “tried and tested” vaccines would in all probability be no better or no worse. Figures in this country have shown that currently deaths from Covid are much higher from individuals who are unvaccinated against those that have been vaccinated, some would argue that this could be propaganda to coerce doubters to take up vaccines, you have to make your own mind up on that issue. I can understand where PatJ is coming from with his belief in the right to freedom of choice, I have worked briefly in the USA and their culture is very different to ours in the UK, particularly when you consider the difference in Political systems. Despite our family having in the past having had a bad experience with vaccinations we all firmly believe in the Covid vaccinations, I did spend 22 years in the Services where choice in respect of vaccines was not an option and I lived to tell the tale. Dave W

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

COVID-19 Vaccine Analysis Overview

Government data concerning vaccine reactions.

You can search for specific conditions vs vaccine manufacturer.

Edited By blowlamp on 17/11/2021 11:01:51

[A SmithParticipant @asmith78105]

Different natural laws seem to apply in the US. For instance, from what I've read , the Amal carburettors and Lucas electrical systems that have served me well over the last 50 years in the UK, don't work at all in the US. The US reaction to vaccine may well be affected by these anomalies.

[Rod RenshawParticipant @rodrenshaw28584]

Some amazing posts on this thread, and then I read pgk pgk and returned to some semblance of sanity, and then had a laugh at A Smith's contribution. Hopefully Darwin will win in the end.

Rod

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by PatJ on 16/11/2021 19:50:00:

Why would only one treatment to any disease be considered? That would not be a scientific approach to solving diseases.

A real scientific study would look at any/every treatment, and objectively determine which method is working best.

The scientific method that has always been used for vaccines in the past has been shut down for this vax, and anyone raising a red flag about all the vax casualties is attacked and shouted down in the public square.

That is why I say it has become politicized. It has become akin to the Salem witch hunts.

Once they determine that you are a witch (unvax'ed), the only solution is the stake burning thing.

Logic and rational go out the window once hysteria takes over, and hysteria has most definitely taken over.

.

Your very first post politicized it here, come to that a red is a communist in the old world.

We don't have the vitriol you have either.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by A Smith on 17/11/2021 12:13:23:

Different natural laws seem to apply in the US. For instance, from what I've read , the Amal carburettors and Lucas electrical systems that have served me well over the last 50 years in the UK, don't work at all in the US. The US reaction to vaccine may well be affected by these anomalies.

Obviously because the petrol is smaller.

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

" Only a heartless fool would suggest ,even as I assume made in jest, denying treatment to the unvaccinated as a policy of victim shaming based on the totally false "doctors have refused to treat the fat or smokers"narrative. "

Paul not false – if you are overweight doctors do refuse operations.

I get amused by anyone decrying genetic manipulation, the vast majority of food that we eat has been genetically modified, albeit using Mendalian genetics. Your genes will have been genetically altered by chemical and the other organisms that made upto 50% of your body.
I remember when Ivomectin was first being pushed by Pfizer as a pour on wormer. It has been around for animal use for some time.
No medical intervention is 100% safe. i wonder how many read the side effects of the drugs that they take? Some certainly list death as a side effect. It is a judgement on the advantages and possible side effects that has to be undertaken, the few of the general public have the ability to do this. One thing that is obvious from this pandemic is that many have read scientific papers, but lack the ability to understand what they have read..

If you don't like the idea that other organisms in your body genetically manipulate your DNA you could have them killed, but I wouldn't recommend this, it will make you very ill.

[JAParticipant @ja]

Just an observation: The recent postings in this topic seem to be dominated by persons who are not prepared to display a "member's profile". Yes, A Smith, I also used either foot to change gear, sometimes both at once.

I find all this sadly amusing. I hope a moderator does not shut it down.

JA

Edited By JA on 17/11/2021 16:25:05

[Paul RhodesParticipant @paulrhodes20292]

Keith; doctors do not refuse treatment because of obesity or smoking. Rather they assess that the outcomes would be so poor as to make surgery an unacceptable risk to the patient with these adverse factors.

Circlip; I agree with much that you say except the what was most likely a tongue in cheek suggestion of some sort of purity test before treatment. I applaud your measures to protect your own health.

pgk; again I agree with most of your posting but must suggest an inaccuracy. Correct me if I am wrong but vetinary practice has not been using mRNA vaccines for many years. AFAIK this is new technology, and is certainly deployed for the first time in humans with some Covid vaccine (Moderna Pfizer etc) . I agree that millions of doses have demonstrated marvellous safety but this was a gigantic human biological experiment. Though one I support it would be foolish to ignore the concern raised by the University of Brisbane experience of rushing to produce just such an RNA vaccine (abandoned last December). Briefly they used materiel which produced a positive HIV test in a number of the trial subjects. I read, but an not isolate the source, that the building block was material taken from the HIV virus which of course is extensively studied, so readily available. The researchers blithely stated post hoc that "they had considered this possibility". Glad I was not a volunteer!

I remain aghast at the strident demonising of very often ill educated people. Those most guilty are the zealots who hammer on about "the science' when, with masks, spread by fomites and mRNA manipulation these scientific authorities have, like the rest of us, feet of clay.

[Author]

Posts