Nose piece

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

COLLET NOSE PIECE 2MT 1438

https://www.myford.co.uk/acatalog/COLLET-NOSE-PIECE-2MT–1438-1065.html

I am perplexed over the choice of a collet system for my Dore Westbury. It already has a myford thread on the quill together with an MT2. Ive worked on collet lathes. They had a handle at the far end of the headstock which pulled and locked the tapered collet in place. quick and easy for production work

The collet threaded into a long tube which acted as a draw bar pulled by the handle at the far end. It was a common system

So I saw this nose piece made to suit the myford nose. It clamps an MT2 tapered collet into the headstock and by accounts it worked very well.

It appears that these MT2 tapered collets are hard to find and if the original Myford collection hideously expensive

why did this simple system fall out of fashion? It has a 2" dia knurled ring acting on the 12 tpi and this appeared only to need a stout hands turn for an efficient clamp

Myford are selling the nose thingy for £30. so all i need is some tapered collets

Am I missing something?

btw the er25 system has a 10mm drawbar which is slightly bigger than 3/8"

so it means drilling out x 200mm, there is an extra long series drill x 185mm so its possible but sweaty.

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

not a fashion accessory

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Drilling 200mm from where?

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

You can get mt2 er25 collet chucks with 3/8 bsw drawbar. Not common I'll grant you

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Brian

With that nosepiece you also need the collet closer to remove the special and expensive hard to come by MT2 collets. For a greater range of collet sizes that collapse down 1mm on size keep to ER types.

If you don't want to fit long parts in the collet chuck you could use a ER type chuck on a MT2 shank with draw bar provision.

Emgee

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Posted by Pete. on 07/07/2021 23:57:33:

Drilling 200mm from where?

drilling out the centre hole of the quill – which is used for a 3/8 draw bar

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Posted by duncan webster on 08/07/2021 00:14:29:

You can get mt2 er25 collet chucks with 3/8 bsw drawbar. Not common I'll grant you

ive scrabbled around on this all afternoon

so where' the link? the iso std is 10mm

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

I only want to use straight shank end mills and following worthy advice to get a collet system – trouble is many uk suppliers seem to be out of stock – has there been a post lockdown stampede?

im getting there waitng on a question of shank length to see if it will fit Auntie DW

as one door closes, another on slams in your face.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Well here's one at least, 2 minutes on ebay MT2

and here's another, doesn't say 3/8, but the engraving on the photo suggests 94AAOSw1cNaM8i7″>another

and Chronos do MT2 split collets with 3/8 drawbar, but I'd steer clear, very easy to get them stuck

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Have you put some 10mm threaded rod or bar down the spindle to check 10mm won't fit?

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

An older thread here, someone mentioned that later DW miller's can take a 10mm drawbar, so worth checking.

Old DW thread

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Lots of ER collet chucks with MT shanks available on ebay or your local machine parts supplier. I have an ER32 to 3MT and ER32 to 2MT adaptors which enables me to swap jobs from lathe to mill or rotary table without removing part from the adaptor and losing concentricity. Drawbar is made from a piece of threaded rod. You can also get ER chucks that screw onto the lathe spindle.

My Southbend late has a 3MT spindle and accepts 3C collets (Cataract system) and used a special nose piece that fits into the morse taper and a hollow drawbar. Other sizes of collets are 1C, to 5C. I seldom use them and use the ER collets instead unless I have a long job that has to go into the spindle (limited to small dia only).

Paul

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Myford collets: **LINK**

http://www.myford-lathes.com/accessories14.html

MichaelG.

.

Edit: https://www.haythornthwaite.com/128%20Myford%20Collets.pdf

Edit: 2002 Myford price list might be of interest;

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/46828278/price-list-usinages

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 08/07/2021 06:31:28

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 08/07/2021 06:43:33

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

The myford collet had a groove machined just behind the nose which engaged withe the closer nut so it will pull the collet out of the taper to release the work. They also supplied a closer tube to close the collet allowing it to fit into the nut. The collets are therefore non standard and were very expensive, now rarer than hen's teet. There was an MEW article long time back describing how to make the collets. However if you have a nut you can use it to clamp standard mt2 finger collets into the taper though they then have to be pushed out from the back to release. I found a spare closer nut in the oddments tray on trader's stand at an MEX years back and bought finger collets to suit, though subsequently I managed to get a genuine myford collet set nearly complete. If you buy ordinary finger collets it might be possible to grind a groove to suit the nut.

I see that Michael has usefully posted a link to the article on making the collets yourself.  Excellent!1

Edited By John Haine on 08/07/2021 07:14:39

[Mike CrossfieldParticipant @mikecrossfield92481]

I use ER25 collets for holding cutters in my Mk1 DW. I use a shop-made chuck which screws on to the Myford nose. You can of course buy similar chucks ready-made. My early DW will only accommodate a 5/16 drawbar, so I have fitted simple adapters into the 3/8 inch or 10 mm threads on MT2 items like boring heads.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Haine on 08/07/2021 07:07:09:

[…]

I see that Michael has usefully posted a link to the article on making the collets yourself.

.

But, infuriatingly, I have so far failed to locate the patent

Myford literature referenced patent Application 20189, but not the granted patent number.

MichaelG.

.

Ref: https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=129870

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 08/07/2021 08:45:05

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I think it is highly unlikely that a patent would be granted for this. If there wasn't prior art it would fall on grounds of obviousness I think. Myford may well have abandoned the application even before examination so the application may have fallen off the systems.  But as soon as they had an application number there would be no reason not to put it on their publicity.

Edited By John Haine on 08/07/2021 10:04:25

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Haine on 08/07/2021 10:01:41:

.
I think it is highly unlikely that a patent would be granted for this. […]

.

The ‘highly unlikely’ takes a little longer to find … but Mr Percy Blood is our hero:

**LINK**

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search?q=pn%3DGB587076A

MichaelG.

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

this OP shows the extent and depth of knowledge to be found on seemingly mundane topic – like a collet assy- only to find that the subject is a lot more complex than seen at first

Stoopid boy pike wrong again, my DW has a 5/16 drawbar and the spindle is drill out to 1/64 clearance nearly 8mm

but our UK ykw shop confirms shank lenght of their collet set so it will fit with my draw bar and adapter – you have to check and not make assumptions

so I will go for that and have done

maybe get some actual work done

I feel like Ive had a pillar drill without any proper drill set – but MEW has set me right thnx 10^6

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Aell I'm surprised – well done Michael. Mind you it would have expired by 1964 so nothing to worry about.

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Well truffled out Michael

Over the years I have traded various sets and part sets of the Myford collets to get a set that suits my needs. The metric ones are quite tricky to find. My understanding is that the Myford ones were made for them by Crawford Collets but these passed through my hands:

The three marked RHL were subtly different, but still fully functional, from the Myford ones so perhaps Myford weren't the only firm to make use of the Mr Blood's patent.

Rod

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

2MT direct fit collets are available, with 3/8 BSW or M10 drawbar tappings, depending on whether Imperial or metric collets

For a LONG time I have used Metric direct collets with 3/8 BSW tappings…

The 2 MT Myford Mandrel will accept upto 1/2" so a 3/8 BSW drawbar will ,pass through.

With the advent of M12 tappings, such a drawbar should still pass through.

If the DW is smaller, then the collets, or collet chuck will, need to, be bushed from M12 down to 5/16 preferably BSF to use a finer and shallower thread, or M8.

Bushing 3/8 BSW down to 5/16 is not really possible because 5/16 is tapping size for 3/8 BSW.

But nothing to stop the drawbar being 1/4 BSF. That can exert more than enough force to cause problems freeing a 2MT afterwards!

Howard

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