Northumbrian

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

Sorry about opening up an old topic but there is a link to all the 15 parts of this series on the Extras page .I am interested in doing this loco but there is an old thread that concerns me regarding drawing errors. I can see the frames were re-issued in part 3 but is there anything else potential builders should be aware of?

 

Can somebody please confirm that all corrections were posted in the 15 issues that made up the series (4355,57,59,62,64,66,68,70,72,74,76,78,80,83 and 4385) and not in any other issue, either the gaps or later issues?

 

If further information is available could the webmaster just add a note to the item on the Extras page so we can all be informed and seek out the corrections

 

Thanks in advance

 

Pete

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

All corections were posted as far as I remember.

Just the frames were changed.

regards david

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

Thanks David

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

David is that posted in the mag issues as Doubletop asks or I think more likely posted on the forum in any one of several threads?

 

I also understand that the drawings from the author have a few differences to the ones published in the mag, or things on one are not on the other, boiler bushes spring to mind.

 

Jason

Edited By JasonB on 09/06/2011 16:47:48

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

I am thinking mag issues.

 

I don’t know what is on the purchased drawings as I have not seen them.

regards David

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Bushes were discusse din this thread

 

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=42092

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

Thanks everybody.

 

The thread Jason pointed us to identifies that bush E is not dimensioned in part 11 issue 4376. I think the reason for this is sort of covered in part 15 issue 4385 page 266. Tony suggests using commercial components for the blower valve so your bush is dependent upon what you plan to use. Similarly there are no drawings for the water gauge, bypass valve, lubricator and understandably the pressure gauge.

 

I may be new to this game but I learned early on to source the commercial components before you start and then make your parts to suit. Tapping a bush for 5/16 x 40 to find the part you are using can only be obtained in 5/16 x 32 is a bit of a pain when the bush is already in your boiler.

 

regards and thanks again for your input.

 

Pete

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

I suppose there is one other question. Has anybody made one that is running yet? I searched YouTube but couldn’t find any.

 

Pete

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

The lack of response from successful builders is bit of a worry, even Tony Weale admitted he hadn’t had it going in part 14 of the series. I have had one PM informing me of one running on air and another aborted project. But nobody has informed me of a successful steaming. There is nothing as far as I can see on other forums.

I’ve made a start on this, basically because I wanted to give the boiler a go, being my first ‘real’ boiler and I just happen to have enough of the right sized stock to do it. Then I thought that if I do the boiler first and then want to finish the loco the chance is it won’t fit. So I did the frames last week and this weekend have the boiler parts ready to go and in the pickle. If that all goes well I may purchase the castings and finish it. Otherwise the boiler can become a stationary plant for one of my beam engines.

As was identified in the series (and there are other instances) dimensioning seems to be an issue, but not a showstopper. Corrections have been posted for the major ones but there are missing dimensions some of which have to be guessed as they can’t be interpreted. As an example; on the corrected frames drawing (part 3) take a set of dividers and select any one of the ¼” dimensions, then step around the others, some aren’t ¼” as drawn, so what should they be? I’ve taken the view that the specified dimension is correct, even if the result isn’t the same as drawn. There are also missing dimensions on the boiler that require interpretation. Be aware of the cut in the boiler tube “Note: that the saw cuts do not extend as high as the centerline but finish approximately 5/8” below it.” If you do this you may end up with the cut being a little too deep and a spoiled barrel. It has caused me grief, but hopefully I’ve fixed it with a modified throat plate. Time will tell.

This isn’t meant to be a put down of Tony’s work I think the series is a pretty good job, but you need to be aware that all is not as it may seem and check everything before applying tools to metal. (no doubt that advice should go for anything you do)

Pete

 

 

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Not wanting to hijack the thread but it would be a good idea if drawings could be downloaded electronically and in this case any unknowns could be taken from the DXF.

 

In a worst case scenario you could import two drawing and over lay to see if there were errors.

 

John S.

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

John

 

It would be nice but I don’t think they’d do that as those files contain the real intellectual property. If the .dxf’s were available there would be hybrids of all sorts popping up as new work.

 

Where dimensions can’t be worked out I’ve taken to redrawing in visio to find the dimension. Of course if you have better cad packages that helps.

 

Pete

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

This was tried and tested.

The chap who did the photos built and tested the locomotive.

regards David

 

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

I find some the beauty of having the dxf files lies in being able to print off drawings as and when needed for use in the workshop, without fear of damaging the original. They can be made to a convenient size and have superfluous data removed as required, as well.

 

I think they could – and should be made available here. Maybe even sell them (nominal fee of course) with a 50/50 split for the author and publisher?

 

Martin.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

And who is going to convert them to DXF?

regards David

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

If they were CAD drawn initially the DXF’s would already exist.

 

John S

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Double top it may be worth purchasing the full set of drawings rather than just using whats been reproduced in ME, with luck they may contain the missing info, they certainly contain teh boiler bush info.

 

Which is possibly one reason that the drawings can’t be downloaded, they are for sale elsewhere and maybe ME only hold the rights to publish or put into DXF whats been in the mag. It would be like Harold Hall doing his build of the 10V and then ME putting up the drawings on the web, Stuarts would have the rights not ME

 

Jason

Edited By JasonB on 19/06/2011 12:51:29

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

You do not have to have them in .dxf to achieve what Blowlamp requires as a scanned copy can be read into SCAN2CAD software and then you can crop out what you want to take to the workshop as an individual print of just a part etc.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

A lot of drawings come in as hand drwn sketches.

regards David

 

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

David

 

I had assumed at least one had been built and was probably running as it featured in the series. Tony mentioned that two others were being built by his colleagues, what I was seeking was an independent opinion. Maybe something you could consider as a topic for ME, a follow up on series such as this, particularly from the originator but also from some of those that have given it a go.

 

Jason, John, Martin.

 

There a whole minefield out there on plans distribution, I had a moment with MHS over the plans for the Rob Roy lubricator. They wanted GBP5 for one A4 page and GBP6 to send it to NZ when it could have been emailed over to me in NZ as a .pdf in 30 secs. In the end the thumbnail on the website provided the information I required. A lost sale for them. However, I can see once they start sending plans as .pdf they have the possibility of them being illegally distributed, completely out of control. As .dxf files the problem would be worse as even more of the IP would be lost.

 

On the quality issue I can sympathise with David and the problems with ensuring plans for articles are correct. No doubt they arrive in various forms and states and somebody has to transcribe them into the magazine format. I can’t see him mandating “plans will be submitted as .dxf files” would work as not everybody would have that capability. No doubt this problem has existed for editors since issue 1 of ME. That said the editor is responsible for the quality of the magazine, not the author of the article.

 

Back to the Northumbrian; for now I’m doing this on the cheap based on the articles in ME for me it doesn’t warrant GBP40 for the plans, I’ll take the risk.

 

Pete

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

I had asked this through the web comments topic but as nothing has happened. Can you move this thread to the dedicated Northumbrian topic please to keep all this stuff together?

[n.o.r.mParticipant @n-o-r-m]

Hows your build going Doubletop ?

 

Ive only just started on building this so dont have any build photos as yet (still getting the bits together) but the one thing i did decide to do before making any cuts was to convert the drawing into CAD so i could double check the dimensions (plus convert to metric) and although everything so far seems to be correct Fig 6 on the drawing (pump stay) does not line up as close with the overlay drawing as all of the other parts so just got to double check it.

 

oh and im also only just learning to use CAD so its taking time to get my head around it lol

 

Also Ive decided to keep the firebox support holes at 1/4″ which appears to be the correct position on the drawing (but wrongly specified by the 3/16″ dimension) rather than use the correction on page 266 Aug/2009 edition.

 

As has been mentioned in earlier posts it would have been nice to see other builds in progress but sadly there does not seem to be any about

 

I too decided £40 was a little expensive for the drawings given that this is my first real model from scratch.

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

Norm

 

Apologies for not replying to this but 4 months on, plenty of progress for both of us.

 

The answer to my question “were all the drawing errors noted in subsequent issues?”, is “No”. For those wanting more details of errors go to the dedicated Northumbrian topic here http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/threads.asp?t=160

 

BTW- it is possible to build this without the drawings, I think between the various contributors we’ve found most of the problems. At least Norm and myself are coping well enough without the drawings.

 

Pete

Edited By Doubletop on 26/01/2012 09:04:06

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