Northern Modelling Exhibition

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

'ere 'ere Nigel and Tony, Sandown is most difficult to get to from the north you would spend more than half your day travelling due to poor rail connections.

We used to go to this show when it was at other London venues–last one I went to was at Ascot but I don't think this venue [nice as it is] lends itself to our type of exhibition. If in London it needs to be at a venue with easy connection to main line stations and a short journey time from same.

Brummi hmmm! well we have to think about our "friends" form south east and south west as well remember we do have a great exhibition in the north at Harrogate.

regards John

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

Sandown is just outside London, the capital city and central to the UK.

All the main railway companies have terminuses in London.

Who in their right mind would have a Model Engineering Exhibition in Birmingham?

regards David

[Joseph RamonParticipant @josephramon28170]

Posted by David Clark 1 on 06/03/2012 09:22:16:

Hi There

Sandown is just outside London, the capital city and central to the UK.

All the main railway companies have terminuses in London.

Who in their right mind would have a Model Engineering Exhibition in Birmingham?

regards David

David,

If that's a joke, please add a smiley.

If serious…

Joey

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Perhaps expand the lectures or at last the time tables, often the first lecture is missed by many because of travelling in, perhaps a rolling list where the first one gets repeated later on and probably two lecture halls if that is possible at whatever venue is used.

Insist that people doing the lectures present handouts of what was in the lecture including internet links etc. all to often you see people scribbling on the collar of the guy in front. Only needs a master, MHS could photostat copies as needed. Duncan is never doing anything during a show !

Chris Stevens does a stirling job showing newcommers how to use a small lathe and let them have a go but this is part of the SMEE stand with people over flowing ito the isles. Fortunately at Sandown they have enough room but perhaps a better located area where any overspill can be contained ?

Expand that display to cover milling ?

Any machining displays to be fully attended and not just do one or two short slots per day, it's a waste of space.

John S.

[Tony JeffreeParticipant @tonyjeffree56510]

Posted by David Clark 1 on 06/03/2012 09:22:16:

Hi There

Sandown is just outside London, the capital city and central to the UK.

All the main railway companies have terminuses in London.

Who in their right mind would have a Model Engineering Exhibition in Birmingham?

regards David

Central to the UK in what sense? It is approximately 850 miles from Land's End to John O'Groats, and actually, that puts Harrogate about as central to the UK as you can get from a geographical point of view.

Regards,

Tony

Edited By Tony Jeffree on 06/03/2012 09:38:54

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Who can afford to travel by train these days ?

National Express do some good services, probably not into Sandown but there are park and ride services at many Nation Express locations.

On the Airport run from Nottingham it stops at Leicester, Milton Keynes, Luton and then goes on the the airports.

Perhaps MHS could charter a couple of buses ( the Geriatric Ecpress ) from various points of the compass. Park and ride to straight in, not expensive as they will pay for themselves.

John S.

Edited By John Stevenson on 06/03/2012 09:41:58

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Central in regard to the capital city.

regards David

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by David Clark 1 on 06/03/2012 09:22:16:

Hi There

…………………………….

Who in their right mind would have a Model Engineering Exhibition in Birmingham?

regards David

Only a few hundred companies including the BBC and Crufts who exhibit at the NATIONAL Exhibition Centre. Plus Warley Model Railway Society who hold one of the largest and most successful model Rail exhibitions in the UK, not to mention Meridienne who hold the extremely successful Midlands Model Engineering society just south of Brum.

By the way I enljoy Sandown as my daughter lives just around the corner from it (5 mins) and it enables me to combine visits. But centre of the UK??? My daughter not even would claim to being central to London as it is 20 miles SW only just inside the M25. Mind you we all know that Londoners think thay are at the centre of the Universe which we clog and cap wearing whippet chasing pigeon racers couldn't possibly understand. Ay Up.

T

P,S. the NEC is next to the West Coast Mainline and Birmingham International Airport and just 3 miles from the M6 with almost unlimited parking.   Almost as accessible as Esher!!!

Edited By Terryd on 06/03/2012 10:40:57

[Tony JeffreeParticipant @tonyjeffree56510]

Posted by David Clark 1 on 06/03/2012 09:42:30:

Central in regard to the capital city.

regards David

That is of course true, but irrelevant. If you go by centre of population (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_of_population), i.e., the place which is fairest on the whole poulation as regards distance to travel, then for the UK it would be Appleby Parva in Leicestershire.

Regards,

Tony

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Posted by David Clark 1 on 06/03/2012 09:22:16:

Hi There

Sandown is just outside London, the capital city and central to the UK.

All the main railway companies have terminuses in London.

Who in their right mind would have a Model Engineering Exhibition in Birmingham?

regards David

I think the "central" statment is being laboured on –london is a great venue but Sandown ????

The train journey from the north to Esher staiion–Lancaster is my nearest station, outward 0640h 4 1/4 hours journey return 16.50h 5 hour journey total time travelling 9 1/4 hours plus bearing in mind the journey from Lancaster to london Euston is only 2h 35mins you can see the time to get to Sandown is just not worth considering for the time available in the show. For comparison visiting other shows [e.g. Ally Pally] our journey time is a tad over 3 hours each way.

A pity but we shall not visit the show without a move.

Regards John

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by JohnF on 06/03/2012 11:17:14:

The train journey from the north to Esher staiion–Lancaster is my nearest station, outward 0640h 4 1/4 hours journey return 16.50h 5 hour journey total time travelling 9 1/4 hours plus bearing in mind the journey from Lancaster to london Euston is only 2h 35mins you can see the time to get to Sandown is just not worth considering for the time available in the show. For comparison visiting other shows [e.g. Ally Pally] our journey time is a tad over 3 hours each way.

A pity but we shall not visit the show without a move.

Regards John

What a ridiculous statement.

A quick 2 minutes on Google shows there are trains from Euston and Waterloo to Esher every 20 minutes with a journey time of 25 minutes, so that would still give you Up Norfh to Sandown in a tad over 3 hours, exactly the same time as Ally Pally and no stupid hill to climb.

John S.

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by John Stevenson on 06/03/2012 13:51:15:

What a ridiculous statement.

A quick 2 minutes on Google shows there are trains from Euston and Waterloo to Esher every 20 minutes with a journey time of 25 minutes, so that would still give you Up Norfh to Sandown in a tad over 3 hours, exactly the same time as Ally Pally and no stupid hill to climb.

John S.

Hi John,

As I am travelling to Morecambe soon I checked the Lancaster to Esher times while booking my tickets as I was surprised at your statement. The timetable shows a journey time of around 3hrs 40+ min. That doesn't allow for two changes of say 10 min each and a 15 minute walk from Esher station to Sandown park. So 4 1/4 hrs is not a bad estimate (return journey is even longer).

I have to travel Euston to Esher regularly to see my daughter and family. It takes around an hour allowing for change at Waterloo or Vauxhall.

Regards

Terry

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

John S

Not so John S see the journey copied from the trainline ticket site—I rest my case! Even looking at Euston Esher the journey is 1hr 10min

Outward 4hr 11 mins

Depart	Arrive	Travel by	Train company	Duration
06:37 Lancaster	09:12 London Euston	Train	VIRGIN TRAINS	02h 35
09:12 London Euston	10:20 London Waterloo	Tube	n/a	01h 08
10:20 London Waterloo	10:48 Esher	Train	SOUTH WEST TRAINS	00h 28

Return 4hrs 48mins

Depart	Arrive	Travel by	Train company	Duration
16:52 Esher	17:22 London Waterloo	Train	SOUTH WEST TRAINS	00h 30
17:22 London Waterloo	18:30 London Euston	Tube	n/a	01h 08
18:30 London Euston	20:38 Preston	Train	VIRGIN TRAINS	02h 08
20:50 Preston	21:40 Lancaster	Bus	VIRGIN TRAINS	00h 50

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Hi Guys,

I did not intend my post to be a forum for those foreigners north of Watford to show their lowly status by knocking the Sandown show. I was wondering if there was something to help at the SANDOWN show not knock it. Sandown does have much to commend it, more than adequate parking and close to the motorway network but where ever the show was there would be as many losers as winners in the travelling stakes.

If all shows were truly at the centre of population, you would only need one show a year, how boring!

As for those traders who think they have to make a profit when attending, have they thought to put attendance in the advertising budget and use it as a way of getting their name to the fore.

Every trader I have spoken to says the stand fees are too high, now I know that shows have to break even or better, but how much do they make from empty spaces? Could it be that by dropping fees, they might encourage more traders? Or is it that the malaise has gone too far and we must watch shows fade to zero? I, for one, would rather go to shows than communicate only via the 'net, which seems to be the "modern" way.

I have only one thing to say to those unfortunates who live in out of the way places, come and join us in the sunny south of England, but not near me as there are far to many Londoners already

chriStephens

PS JohnS, Thanks for the vote of confidence (taken on behalf of the whole SMEE team), next time pop over and I'll show you how to use a lathe.

[DerryUKParticipant @derryuk]

<It is approximately 850 miles from Land's End to John O'Groats, and actually, that puts Harrogate about as central to the UK as you can get from a geographical point of view.>

Yes but when the Scots vote themselves out of the UK you can change that to Lands End to Newcastle. So middle then will be Nottingham.

Hang on, didn't there used to be a lathe manufacturer there once?

Derry.

PS when the Scots go we can all enjoy a tax-cut.

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

we do have a great exhibition in the north at Harrogate.

Well, I would agree that we have an exhibition in Harrogate – from my point of view it wasn't that great last year.

The last show in Manchester (at the Velodrome) was not well attended by trade, clubs or visitors (well, not many visitors on the day I went anyway). I don't recall it making a second appearance.

The exhibitor list for the latest effort meant it didn't warrant a look-in for me – non of the "big name" suppliers present to allow for any sort of comparison between products. The exhibits are rarely of much interest, as I have no interest in steam powered anything, railways or hot air engines. I can appreciate the work that goes in to them, but the subject matter leaves me cold – see one shiny locomative & I've largely seen them all !

I went to Harrogate last year after 3 or 4 years of it clashing with other commitments & it was disappointing – less trade support than I recall previously & many of the exhibits seemed the same as the last vist. I think it will clash with a prior commitment this year, but can't say I will loose much sleep over that. I doubt that Arc Eurotrade will be the only trade stand downsizing this year.

The Midlands Show used to be a good day out when it was at Donnington – particularly when Myford scheduled their open days to coincide. Arrive at Myfords for when they opened, then move on to DP with pre-paid tickets & in there for not much after opening time. Good look round, hammer the credit card & home before 4 ! No Myfords & Leamington Spa further than I want to go for a day out – particularly as my wife will no longer accompany me to such events having tired of being barged out of the way by ignorant old men – has meant no visit there since it moved.

Sandown Park to expensive to visit – period, I'm afraid.

£0.02

Nigel B.

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Posted by David Clark 1 on 06/03/2012 09:42:30:

Central in regard to the capital city.

regards David

Does central have a different meaning south of Watford?

Unless I've missed something, I just dont understand these comments.

Ian P

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Well, it seems there was nothing new or original at the show that was worth "borrowing".

It seems there have only been two new innovations in the last couple of years, first and give them due credit, at Ally-Pally the organisers bucked the H&S paranoia trend and allowed SMEE to let Mr and Mrs Joe Public and their offsprings to have a go on a lathe. Second, MHS for free entry on the Sunday, upon presentation of a copy of ME or MEW, again a suitable round of applause should go to them for the brave idea.

chriStephens

[merlinParticipant @merlin98989]

I went to the recent Manchester Show; by train from Lincs to a hotel in the city, then by bus to the show on Saturday. This gave me a rare and special holiday to see M.O.S.I. and a few other interesting places in the city.

I enjoyed the show, which I expected to be smallish, but there were more mod eng stalls, dealers and clubs, than I thought there would be. There was plenty of space in the hall so another metre on all of the aisles would have been welcome. Like most people there, I entered clutching my secret hoard of money in a little poly bag and, whilst feeling lucky and excited to be there, I concentrated on tools (for clockmaking) and prices, working quickly whilst there were fewer people there.

There didn't seem to be any reason for breaking concentration to look downwards. I do hope that I wasn't one of those who prodded the gent in the wheelchair – I wouldn't want to do that at any price. I sympathise and will try to remember what he says, but I can't see things improving much.

I was surprised at the value placed on secondhand books which seemed to me to be on obscure subjects – £40 was not uncommon. Figures like that tend to put me off from spending valuable time at the stall browsing through the other books to the left and right of them just because I have £3 burning a hole in my pocket. I would have expected the £30 – £40 ones to be apart from the cheaper ones and away from light fingers. Perhaps they were all £40! The dealers know their business best, of course.

Being new to this forum I don't understand the reference to E.I.M., presumably the Tee Pub organisation. I wish that they still did their packs of brass, aly, etc.

Although not an aeroplane man I enjoyed seeing and hearing the Vulcan. The tean deserved the applause.

Perhaps I misremember, but about ten years ago when I went to a mod eng exhibition at Harrogate, I had a very long walk from the cat to the hall (and back) which would have been no fun in the rain, or if I had bought something heavy.

I sense that there are tensions in the forum between business interests; I hope that they work in our favour.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Sandown. Diversify. It has been said more than once that the heyday was the multidisciplined shows a decade or so ago. There were lots of boat models which are a traditional part of Model Engineering at the show so get a dozen boat traders in. I've been to more than one show where I couldn't even find some stainless for a prop shaft let alone a propellor.

If there are any kids at the show with their interest sparked is dad going to buy them a £5k loco. I don't think so. Get a couple of stands selling Airfix (or who ever it is now) and meccano. Then the kid will want to come to the show again for the next 50 years.

Don't listen to the old grouches who are only interested in steam engnes. Dolls houses are a perfectly respectable area of modelling and provide some light relief for spouces.

CNC may be too expensive for most but how about adopting the RepRap community and offering a gathering opportunity for them.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

As regards suggestions I was serious about making enquiries about National Express coaches for various parts.

Same about lectures.

Chris S, than you for the offer on the lathe, I may take it up with you because I'm never too proud to admit I still learn new things every day.

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Hi John,

I'm with you there, the person with a closed mind has no mind at all.

chriStephens

[David Paterson 4Participant @davidpaterson4]

Thaey dont need to be big to be good. we could do with a decent trade show, but

this is what is available in Canberra, one / year

http://actmrs.org.au/information-types/actmrs-members/malkara

Almost no trade dealers except for railway layouts, but a great mix of steam, dolls houes, trains, cars, planes, boats, sometimes tools.

Place is packed for two days and supports Malkara special school. 95% of the visitors are not yet model engineers. my youngest, now 16, started going when he was about 4, still enjoys it and criticallly examines every layout and steam model on display.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I have to wade in for Birmingham. There are several really good venues and the costs would be less than for a London venue too.

I work in Brum and have hardly been to London in 16 years, then bang- three times in the last few months, and again next tuesday! It's four hours by car or an hour and a quarter by train from Lichfield (who needs HS2?) And I must say I'm up to here with 'the city' – the air stinks of pollution (even compared to Brum) and you realise just how much the view from London is coloured by teh 'capital city' view.

I think it would be fantastic to se the ME show in Birmingham, perhaps alternating with one in the south. The MMEX by meridienne is OK, but doesn't seem to attract the 'big names'.

I would happily assist the groundwork for such a show.

Neil

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Stub Mandrel on 07/03/2012 21:36:02:

I work in Brum and have hardly been to London in 16 years, then bang- three times in the last few months, and again next tuesday! It's four hours by car or an hour and a quarter by train from Lichfield

Neil

I used to have a car like that…………………………..

John S.

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