Non tilting; tilting head…..tilt

[ShentParticipant @shent]

Hi all,

Had my first mill arrive today which was great but have run into an issue immediately, hopefully someone can help. Tried tilting the head by loosening the 4 bolts attaching it to the column but no joy, saw what I thought was a retention pin (pictured) and removed it, the head started tilting…great stuff….but then stopped at around 45 degrees and now wont move back to upright or any where more than +/- 5 degrees of its current 45 degree position, anyone have any ideas about this at all? Mill is a Weiss VM32L.

(Have put this one another thread of mine but off topic so moved to here)

Cheers

Mark

[ShentParticipant @shent]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Have you read the instructions, I think you are meant to just pull the handle on the pin not take it right out, should snap back in against the spring pressure.

Also I think you should only have loosened the 3 outer bolts, the central one is the pivot.

Edited By JasonB on 17/12/2019 19:16:49

[ShentParticipant @shent]

Yeah checked the instructions Jason, I think this version on the 32l is fairly new so nothing covered in the instructions. If I look in the opening I can see the divit for the pin and have fixed it back on again but it did not solve the problem of the head being stuck at 45 degrees.

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

How 'loose are the bolts that you have undone? It is possible if they are too loose that one of them has dropped back into the recess that allows them to be fed into the circular tee slot that they run in. Try nipping up the bolts and then just loosen enough to permit movement and see if that allows the head to be rotated.

Can you post a picture of the head showing the bolts you have loosened.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Firstly, I'm only guessing about this. The head probably should only tilt 45 degrees either way, so it has likely hit a stop. You ought to re tighten the central bolt, as the head could be nodding forward and jamming. Taking the weight off the front could also allow the head to be returned to vertical. That spring loaded rod with the tapered end looks like it aligns the head in the vertical position.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Head tilts 90 deg each way on that one.

Pin goes into detents at 0, 45 and 90 deg

[ShentParticipant @shent]

Thought that might be an issue so tried that earlier Gray, I did loosen them quite a bit so there is a possibility that when i tightened them again the threads could have caught on the cast iron and so didn't pull through properly, will try again in the morning and post some pics as the thing is outside at the moment as dismantling was the only way I could get it in my shed……..It's covered up but I am prayingthat it doesn't rain tonight.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

With the head stuck at 45 degrees, and assuming the pin is back in place, it will require holding back while the head is returned to vertical.

[ShentParticipant @shent]

I really hope it is just nodding forward Mart but I took the weight off it by moving it about whilst trying to bring it to vertical, and resting the head on a couple of pieces of wood on the bed but it didn't seem to do anything. I'm hoping fresh eyes on it in the morning will show me what to do.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Not sure why the head should stick at 45 degrees. Some photos would be good. My similar mill has two bolts controlling head angle, and the pull knob disengages a detent to stop it flopping over when the nuts are are slackened. (Pic from a Grizzly Manual; they're often better than ours, even if they can't spell centre!)

The top bolt is the axle, the lower nut is to lock the head at the wanted angle. Normally both are done up tight. To move the head, the top bolt is slackened slightly then the lower – not much, just enough to allow movement. Once those two are slackened pulling the knob allows the head to swivel. It's heavy – be careful to keep it under control.

Good news is the mechanism is simple – there's not much to go wrong. How loose is the head? Possibly it's tilted forward on the axle and wedged. It may need to be lifted and pushed backwards while the nuts are retightened. Perhaps a two man job, one lifting while the other removes excess slack on the nuts.

Wish you'd asked on the Forum before mioving the head. We'd have advisedyou not to touch it without good cause! The reason is 99% of the time, a milling head should be vertical to the best possible accuracy, 'tramming'. Not done roughly with a scale or a set-square, a DTI is used to get it right within about 0.007%. Keeping the head spot on and whilst nipping up the locks is 'fun'. On these simple machines it's usually better to angle the work than to tilt the head.

Sorry if this is unwelcome advice, but I recommend not taking new machines apart and inspecting them. It can cause a lot of bother unless one is familiar with machines already. Better and safer to test machines by cutting metal and judging the results. Cutting errors are more revealing than eyeballing the machine or attempting precision measurements. Dismantling and measuring to isolate and fix actual issues is one thing, accidently making trouble whilst exploring is to be avoided!

Dave

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

You may have to try to remove the head completely from the column before going any further. Watch out for electrical connections when doing so. It will certainly be easier to manipulate without the extra weight and bulk.

[Iain DownsParticipant @iaindowns78295]

I've just ordered one of these so I'm keen to find the result!

I'm not planning to tilt the head, but who knows?!!

Iain

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Right photos but exploded views are wrong in this manual

[ShentParticipant @shent]

Your advice is definately welcome Dave.Unfortunately dismantling is the only way for me to get it into the area it will live in so no other option unfortunately. I should have asked here beforehand but I do like to just crack on and try to figure things out myself without hassling people first. I have DTI's, Calipers, squares, and I know I'll need to order a surface plate amongst other things, not too worried about tramming in, it will help me to understand the machine…….it'll take hours and be frustrating as hell but lessons will be learned.

Removing the head at a 45 degree angle is plan B Mart if I can't correct whilst on the machine, just want to get it in the shed…..its warmer in there

Iain, it looks like a decent machine, thats about all i can say at the moment.

Thanks all for the replies and will put some pictures up in the morning.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I would not bother with a surface plate but would get the mill trammed if you want to do any half decent work with it.

[ShentParticipant @shent]

Yes Jason, have a similar picture in my manual and had found another manaul on an american site DROpros or something like that, for the part that I put up pictures of it just states screw……….great thanks Weiss lol. I have emailed them drectly and emailed Hugh at Amadeal to see if they know what the issue is.

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

The head fixing to the column looks similar to my warco wm16, but this has just a central nut retaining nut and one nut to allow the head to tilt, where yours seems to have 3 nuts around the central one.

When I bought mine (secondhand) I had to remove the head (and table) to be able to move it. If you need to remove the head you can lower it onto a wooden support on the table to take the weight and then remove the nuts and wind the head forward using the table.

I found a video on you tube showing this. I will try to find it and post a link.

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

This is the link I referred to in my previous post. It's a bit over the top – I just supported the head on some wood on the table but gives you the general idea.

**LINK**

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

PM have a better manual that mentions the pin and shows it in teh exploded view

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Could you lay the mill on its back to remove the head? It wouldn't need support in that position so the angle wouldn't be an issue.

Brian G

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

Looking at the manual posted by Jason, p17 describes the function of the pin you have removed.

[ShentParticipant @shent]

Yes I had seen that video Stuart, will be doing the same with wooden blocks tomorrow if all goes well, only issue is that the head is at 45 degrees so need to make a wooden V to support it properly which I should be doing in the morning (glad i booked the rest of the week off now).

Thats a fantastic manual on the PM-30 Jason, much better than what i have, nice one.

It would be very difficult Brian to lay the mill down where it is but if worst comes to worst that may be the only option left, nice idea.

Cheers all

[ShentParticipant @shent]

Just landed on that page Stuart, definately the right thing to do then when I removed them as the plan all along was to remove the head completely. Its funny to see video after video of people removing heads by rotating, supporting, and pulling away and I can't get past step 1. lol.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by JasonB on 17/12/2019 20:58:33:

PM have a better manual that mentions the pin and shows it in teh exploded view

Page 17 gives details for the head removal. Tilting the head specifically states to loosen 3 bolts, not four, so I expect the head is likely jammed on the boss on which it rotates. I may have damaged it sufficiently to prevent movement.

[Author]

Posts