Non-steaming models. Sacrilege??

[UncouthJParticipant @uncouthj]

Hey folks.

Having seen so much about how difficult boilers are to make, expensive to buy etc. Is it sacrilegious to start considering making non-steaming models?

I mean everything can still move by air, or electronically for 'live' model purposes, just not as originally intended.

Is this something people do?? I mean I'd obviously prefer to do it properly but…

Thoughts?

All the best, Jay

[UncouthJParticipant @uncouthj]

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

The only person you have to please is yourself. It isn't unusual to go to shows and see the engines ticking over on an air compressor due to the safety implications of using a boiler inside.

If it makes you happy, do it. If it makes others happy, even better. Too much of this hobby is taken up by worrying about things that don't matter.

[UncouthJParticipant @uncouthj]

Oh, I absolutely agree Jon. Even still though, no-one wants to be 'that guy'…

[Iain DownsParticipant @iaindowns78295]

I've built vertical engine which is at the top end of model and bottom end of useful in size (2 inch / 2.5 inch bore).

Building a boiler for it is almost certainly beyond my equipment and skill set. Buying a boiler is almost certainly beyond my budget.

But I think the joy has been in the discovery (well, frustration, swearing, embarrassment, remaking, tool breaking and so on) not the running.

And if you lurk around this forum for any time at all you will rapidly realise that more or less everyone dances to their own tune! If you want to steam it, steam it! If it just sits there nearly finished and you take pleasure in the work .. well that's fine too!

 

Iain

Edited By Iain Downs on 26/10/2022 10:05:51

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

I run my steam engine models on compressed air, a few I have tried on low pressure steam. A model driven by compressed air or by a battery isn't a sacrilege in my book, so just do what you want.

Thor

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Cherry hinds/hill's models were never run on steam.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Jay'

As above

Some people build engines to run them.

Some people build engines for the mantlepiece or coffee table.

Some people build engines for something to do and never run them.

Some people buy an engine to run and have no idea how to fix them.

Some people build IC or Glo engines

Some people are pedestrian builders and some build model jewellery.

We are all on here except possibly the third.

Nobody cares what you do unless you wake up the old iron new iron pointless debate or real politics.

 

Just take a look at Blueheelers vid, he's built all types.

Edited By Dave Halford on 26/10/2022 10:44:35

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Mark Rand on 26/10/2022 10:12:58:

Cherry hinds/hill's models were never run on steam.

Exactly. Setting fire to models made for exhibition is a quick way of spoiling them!

I like running engines and exhibition engines for different reasons. They're all wonderful in my book. Being alive and delightfully smelly makes running engines drop-dead sexy. But I don't insist runners be rivet counting accurate with an immaculate paint job. Exhibition engines meet higher standards of craftsmanship, finish and fidelity to a prototype, and although many were proved on compressed air, I don't see any need for them to steam.

Not a model maker myself. I made a few stationary steam and Stirling engines mainly to develop workshop skills. None of them would win a medal! Had a big thrill when they ran, but I can't justify the cost of a boiler, and my interests don't take me that way. I don't display my engines at home or in public either.

It boils down to what ticks your boxes. Cherry Hill is well out of my league and I wouldn't mark her models down just because they represent showroom perfection rather than dirty hard work and aren't intended to run – even though I'm sure they would.

Dave

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

I have wondered recently what the future holds in terms of carbon based fuels use for model and full size steam engines, and indeed IC engine based vehicles. Will the only option for fire based engines be to use green hydrogen? It will be interesting to see what happens.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I doubt the BSA Goldstar model that won a prize at the Midland show is a runner. Live steam is a particular branch of model making but there are many other areas. Ship models seem quite happy to have categories that have nothing below the waterline and others that are radio controlled with all sorts of power sources. You can’t tell whether a model loco works on steam unless it is in steam or shows evidence of having been fired. The inner complexity of a boiler could be left out and just a dummy constructed to build everything else off. I suppose it could be just soft soldered or even glued together. It would save a lot of cost to just build a dummy in steel as no need for copper if just a non steaming showcase model.

Mike

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

I have both have run most of them but a couple only run on air

H

[BazParticipant @baz89810]

It’s your life and you can do your models as you like, I build steam locos and run them on steam, an air line won’t stretch around the track, I build stationary engines and the ones with bronze or gunmetal cylinders get a taste of steam, the ones with cast iron cylinders have to make do with an air line.

[Simon CollierParticipant @simoncollier74340]

I dispute the notion that building boilers is particularly difficult. Expensive, yes, but so is buying a lathe and a mill and tooling to build the rest of the engine. How difficult is a triple expansion engine, or piston valve cylinders? A number of members at my club have built quite complicated boilers first up such as tapered barrels with combustion chambers and Galloway tubes, etc.. experienced club members are always there to advise and help.

What I do find sacrilegious is so called pseudo steam, steam outline locos that have electric motors and batteries.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Live steam models are often not a pure scale model of an original machine. They are modified to work at the chosen scale and may not be a faithful scale copy which would not perform satisfactorily.

Mike

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

It's becoming increasingly popular for classic car owners to have them converted to electric motors and batteries, either by installing the remnants of a crashed Tesla or by a specialist workshop with purpose-made gear.

It would seem to take most of the fun out of it for me but obviously they are happy with it. I can't imagine riding my vintage Harley with an insipid silent electric motor!

[UncouthJParticipant @uncouthj]

I'll definitely build one that steams, preferably a ride along. I guess I'm just wondering how the effort, expense, reward equation works out on smaller models.

I think I'll do one that doesn't steam first, as it'll no doubt become a household ornament anyway. By which time I'll have a better handle on the silver soldering and hopefully the confidence & competence to go for a live one.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, as any model of a steam engine is unlikely to be consecrated, it is not sacrilege to make it however you what to make it. Having said that, in my own opinion, you are allowed the make a model however you wish to, within the law. Something that is classed as "Live Steam" though, should be capable of running on steam and would have a boiler associated with it to be conventional. A model that has a dummy boiler can and does represent a prototype, as many model clockwork and electric train sets do. Of course, you can make a dummy boiler to go with an engine that is capable to run on steam and replace it with a real boiler whenever you wish.

Regards Nick.

 

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 27/10/2022 08:36:24

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Nicholas Farr on 27/10/2022 08:28:55:

Hi, as any model of a steam engine is unlikely to be consecrated, …

With the amount of "prayers" that get said in my workshop, they could be.

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