Nissan Leaf grief … such is progress !

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

An interesting little story on BBC News:

https://apple.news/AKKH7G3O8Q3e7QJW85rMicA

… and presumably via other links.

MichaelG.

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Owners of Nissan Leaf electric cars have accused the firm of “dumping its pioneers” after it announced its app would stop working for older vehicles.

The firm says the app – which allows remote control of functions such as heating – is stopping because the UK’s 2G network is being switched off.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Cynical sales ploys based on designing cars on combining “because-we-can” instead of “because-it’s-necessary” with over-rapid obsolescence.

The comments on when to charge the car presumably assume charging at home. If you have a proper, wired-in charger it has to be installed professionally, but whether that or the sort plugged into a 13A socket, use a time-switch.

It should not be necessary to use a portable telephone to operate everything…

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Just look at the number of cnc lathes that are ‘obsolete’ after a few years. Beware a lathe with ELS.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Buried in this link it says that providers may remove 2G service at any time before the dead line .

Swift caravans have a similar pointless system and there are loads more of those than Leaf’s about.

Cynical sales ploys are also known as ‘adding value’ Yar?.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Business opportunities to make wifi to 2G short range relays?

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

You know, it’s not just the UK where 2g is being switched off and many countries will be ahead of us. Maybe it wasn’t a good idea to design in only a 2g radio interface but what do you expect Nissan to do?

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

See https://eu.korewireless.com/2g-3g-network-sunset-dates#usa to see schedule by country.  Quite a few major countries have closed down 2g already and 3g will go soon.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

What to expect Nissan to do?

I’d expect them – or any car designers – to stop being so besotted with portable telephones!

[Nigel Graham 2]

On Nigel Graham 2 Said:

What to expect Nissan to do?

I’d expect them – or any car designers – to stop being so besotted with portable telephones!

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… and yet; at the other extreme of the usefulness spectrum, there is this:

https://youtu.be/3DjdLsTCLFw?feature=shared

I only learned about one.network last night, but I’m very impressed so far !

https://one.network/

MichaelG.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I HATE organisations that choose to advertise themselves with YouTube videos!  Most of us can read and those that can’t probably won’t be customers.  Especially when the video appears to be sponsored by another scam space heater that defies the laws of physics.

[John Haine]

On John Haine Said:

I HATE organisations that choose to advertise themselves with YouTube videos!  Most of us can read and those that can’t probably won’t be customers.  Especially when the video appears to be sponsored by another scam space heater that defies the laws of physics.

Sorry I spoke, John !

I used the YouTube link thinking it would be more convenient for readers

… Can’t do right for doing wrong round here !

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… all the content [without any ####### external adverts] is available ‘clean’ on the website … which I have now linked in my previous post.

MichaelG.

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

Swerving dramatically from the original topic…

Look, I really hate to be a Jeremiah, and throw cold water on MG’s enthusiasm for one.network, but it’s worth looking at such a development’s possible consequences. Suppose it’s taken up widely: it then becomes a massive, probably dominant node in the network of traffic information. If it should then be relied upon by a sufficient number of users – either private or corporate, the consequences of it going down or being hacked become enormous. It would be an attractive target…

Here in NZ, we get more-than-occasional failures of EFTPOS and/or internet banking, which causes more than a few problems. No doubt it’s similar in other countries. NZ has withdrawn cheques, so low-tech alternatives are restricted. Cash still works though, albeit only for low-level transactions…

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Feel free to be a Jeremiah, Kiwi

… my only objective [in the original post, and in this recent digression] was to prompt some intelligent discussion.

MichaelG.

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

I know that’s your frequent objective, Michael, of which I thoroughly approve. Mine too!

[Kiwi Bloke]

On Kiwi Bloke Said:

….it then becomes a massive, probably dominant node in the network of traffic information. If it should then be relied upon by a sufficient number of users ….ues, so low-tech alternatives are restricted. Cash still works though, albeit only for low-level transactions…

Google is already dominant in traffic information integrate in its mapping and nav app.  I had an awful experience of following a Google alternative route round a village on the A65 with roadworks – unfortunately most other users of the road were doing the same and the alt route through narrow c country lanes was totally choked with artics and coaches.

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Japanese design teknowleggy and sales has always worked on the principle of “Here it is, buy now, and now for something completely different” One Honda motorcycle came into the country and six moths later was replaced by a new model without the importation of ANY spares. Again on M/Cs remember the Wankel powered Bike? Sorry, down to Joe public blindly accepting the status quo of the latest must have gizmoes. Hopefully my basic Sandero will last me out cos I don’t like the latest aberration of what I found to be a reliable steed without ‘new tricks’ as standard. On other vehicle, which dipstick came up with the idea of an automatic Handbrake?????????????

Regards  Ian.

[NealebParticipant @nealeb]

Been going downhill since they took the manual advance/retard control away. And as for automatic chokes – don’t talk to me about automatic chokes. Can’t even find the window winder on this thing I’m driving today.

Has to be a short note – got to take my accumulators down to the village to get them charged for my radio…

 

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Another phone oriented annoyance coming up is Hive heating. I control the church heating using the computer interface which a few months ago started to also require phone pin confirmation. Shortly they are forcing me to use only the phone ‘app’.
The hall heating is controlled by someone else on the Hive phone app. When they updated the app recently it became unreliable until you took the update.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Progress is purely chronological and does not imply or mean improvement.

It can bring that and usually does, but improvement is only such if genuinely enhances or eases the task. or ancilliary ones such as maintenance.

So that example – automatic advance/retard – was both progress and improvement. Inventing the starter-motor even more so after people were injured – one fatally – when using a starting-handle but forgetting the manual advance/retard control.

Having to use a portable telephone in place of a direct switch, on a car, may be progress but hardly improvement. Similarly, designing a car so you can’t replace a burnt-out headlamp bulb at the roadside may be styling “progress” or ease its construction on the assembly-line, is also not good engineering so is not an improvement.

Similarly, why make heating a church or hall so complicated? You know when either building is to be used so it needs simply a week-running time-switch. The actual task – heating the room – has not changed. All the so-called “app” does is add complexity.

 

[BT has tried selling me that “Hive” nonsense. I ignore it. From past experience I can’t operate a “smart”-‘phone and don’t want one again anyway, but I do need the heating and I can operate the simple timer on the boiler itself.]

[Nigel Graham 2]

On Nigel Graham 2 Said:

What to expect Nissan to do?

I’d expect them – or any car designers – to stop being so besotted with portable telephones!

Looking at the numbers:

The Nisan Leaf came out in 2010 – from personal experience, software is chosen 3-5 years in advance and the version frozen some 6-12 months before production, suggesting that the idea of using mobile telephony would have been designed into the product around 2005-7 and final versions locked in 2009. As an aside, 3rd party software is contracted to be available (with bug fixes/updates) for a minimum of 7 years and potentially up to 15 years after initial install in my (limited) experience.

2G came out in 1991 as the first iteration of the digital (as opposed to analog communication) GSM specification, 3G commercially arrived in 2002 and rolled out slowly across the world as 2Gbecame the norm.

So the Leaf design was presumably being thought through less than 3 years into the arrival of 3G and very much seen as (b)leading edge, no great surprise that 2G was chosen as a reasonably mature technology that was becoming available near-universally.

Some 30+ years down the line, that piece of technology is slowly being turned off – a reasonable lifespan and comparable with other arrive and depart technology (Video recorders….fax machines…).

Today’s connected cars are way past the “solution looking for a problem to solve” point and have entered into the marketing end of the spectrum – whether that is monitoring what’s happening to the vehicle itslef or selling you a particular function that can be turned on (and off) in software remotely – like infotainment options, extra functionality, etc. Whether that is a good thing or not depends a bit on your point of view, but it mirrors much of our modern consumption – such as access to CAD suites for example.

My 2 c almost over, just one last gem that I found at the Science Museum in London last year referring to the initial Cellnet/Vodafone launch in early 1985 – there is a short video with an interview with a Cellnet senior manager who stated that the entire mobile telephony business plan was built around the target of 20,000 mobile phone users in the 1st 10 years….. Cellnet alone hit that target within the 1st 5 months of operation!

 

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Thank you for that detailed explanation, Simon.

I think we see in so many things, manufacturers’ “because we can” becoming mixed up with buyers “so we must have”.

Nothing new in it of course: fashion has been around since time immemorial! Bronze? That new-fangled shiny stuff is for arrow-heads, not brooches!

However, fashion and profits are now also responsible for obscene waste and for making things far more complicated, potentially unreliable and costly to make, use and repair than is really necessary.

I’d be the last to say cars don’t need heaters, radios and windscreen-wipers, but horribly-named “infotainment screens” to distract the driver, and idiotic subscription services to do what otherwise needs only a switch? The latter at least is to help not the motorist, but the manufacturers’ profits.

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Heaters though.. I don’t know what the state of play is now but friends who did buy a battery car several years ago said they dared not turn the heater on except on short, local journeys!

Really though it’s all academic to me because there is no way I could ever own this sort of car. Not even a “pre-owned” Nissan Leaf.

Errr… just how is anything “pre-owned” ? It’s as daft as “pre-booked” . Once made it is owned full-stop… by the manufacturer then the dealer, then….

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

https://nationalhighways.co.uk/road-safety/ecall/#:~:text=eCall%20should%20only%20be%20used,location%20directly%20to%20emergency%20services.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/security-and-emergencies/emergency-assistance-vehicles-ecall/index_en.htm

 

 

[HowiParticipant @howi]

Well! well! well!, no surprises here on this forum.

Progress is what it is, it is unstoppable, you either run with it or give up but you can’t stop it. Good or Bad? if it’s bad there is usually a mechanism to redress the issue, I give you an example of modern vehicles which have gone over to all electronic(touch) control for everything on the dash, driven by bean counters saving money on the physical knobs switches etc. we are not allowed to touch let alone use a handheld mobile phone when behind the wheel (I would ban anyone that does) but we are foirced to use dashboard touch screen??? the mind boggles. Forunately the manufactures have had their hands slapped and told to stopo it.

auto handbrake? before I bought my latest car (6years old now) I would have thought the same but I would not  now be without it.

I installed Nest heating controls on my CH as soon as I could when moving in to a new (old) property and again would not be without it.

If we are out during the day but want the house to have started to warm up when we get home, I can log into the system and turn it on. Normally it would sense we are not at home and keep the heating off, then switch it on when it senses we have arrived home. I would say it has saved me a good deal of money over a conventional thermostat over the years we have had it.

The progress deniers on here have literally given up/can’t be bothered.

Tells you everything you need to know!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Does anyone here know more about the recent Jaguar i-Pace story:

Was the eCall system involved, or did the driver just get lucky ‘phoning the Police ?

MichaelG.

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Police ram runaway electric car after brakes fail on M62

 

A runaway electric car had to be boxed in between police cars after an electrical fault left the driver unable to brake on a motorway.

The driver of the Jaguar I-Pace had been travelling on the M58 at about 14:15 GMT on Wednesday before calling police to plead for help.

Officers were able to escort the car on to the M57 and then the M62.

It was finally halted 25 minutes later between Junction 11 for Birchwood and 12 for Eccles, police said.

A police spokesman said officers “worked together to stop all other traffic” and before bringing the car to a halt at about 14:40 GMT. No one was injured.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Interesting that the Nest can sense when you get home, technically easy but I didn’t know it was a feature provided. I do however think the ability to turn on the heating before you get home encourages people to do so when they can perfectly well keep their coat on for an hour when getting home. Time switches set in advance can be as bad and both probably result in a 10% increase in fuel consumption.
We need remote control of the church hall because the schedule is not fixed with extra kids parties and irregular hirers. The church too has extra non regular functions which the Rector being on site could cater for but clergy expect other people to do that sort of thing for them most of the time.

The car controls should have been designed with an interface that could have an updated controller plugged in but probably all on one board to save costs.

Wrt increasing take up of features. When we launched a WiFi capable router in about 2003 we thought people might have 2 or 3 connected devices but catered for 7 because it was 3 binary bits in the register. Hadn’t considered the explosion in internet on phones but now when someone has a party in their house 30-50 friends will connect.

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