Nickel Plating

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Hi everyone,

 

Further to a comment on nickel plating on another thread I felt this might be better served by having ‘it’s own’

 

I would like to nickel plate some very small parts on a virtual one off basis. Consequently I don’t particularly wish to make a big outlay to do so. That’s not a case of being ‘frugal’ just that the outlay for a plating kit is rather excessive for the job in hand and the likelyhood of having very little further use for it.

 

 

The intended parts will be similar to these, just slightly larger and three off of each – not a great amount as you can see so what I was hoping to do was a sort of ‘jam jar’ set up, just sufficient to achieve the finish.

These parts are from the original engine that I am copying – the dull finished inlet on the left is not the norm, another engine has this as bright as the needle side (and somewhat brighter than the image appears to infer) The needle itself is not plated.

I have found on Ebay some ‘Nickel Plating Salts’ just a 100ml for £6 which would be sufficient. I know I will need a nickel anode as well but apart from this would I need anything else (I have a 0-30v power supply unit) to carry this out in a very small fashion? Is the set up similar to anodising using the salts as the electrolyte?

Also, as the parts will be made of brass – what will be the best form of degreaser for this material for this application.

As usual any help or light that anyone can shed on this will be appreciated but please bear in mind I really do wish to keep this on the ‘small scale’ .

Regards – Ramon

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

There are folks selling kits for nickel plating, I beleive I have seen them advertised in ME. I haven’t tried it myself, but I do beleive that nickel is one that you can do good job of at the home level without too much risk of poisoning yourself.

 

regards

John

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Ramon, Nickel plating requires a base metal to plate onto so you will need to copper plate first.

I spent six months as part of my army tech. training in a plating shop at Donnington workshops and learnt a lot of basic skills there. Cleanliness both physical and chemical is paramount.

Another item is that the base layer , copper is polished to give a polished nickel layer.

Straight nickel will give a slightly rough surface.

Perhaps you should consider using stainless steel for the components or another alternative is Zinc plated and passivated.

All the processes involve an acid dip which will etch the surfaces.

Stainless steel is the way to go I think.

I sem to remember that most of the spraybars were made of brass in my engines of yesteryear, in fact I had to make a couple of them as some of my crashes were a bit spectacular and bits got broken.

I have also carried out black chrome work which still requires copper plating before being done, the copper is brushed off leaving a beautiful shining black finish which is all but impenetratable. This method was used on the components of the big guns recuperators to stop corrosion.

 

Clive

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Hi John,

Yes I’ve looked into the kits but the expenditure outweighs the likely usage. GLR’s is £70 but I have found another for ‘Brushed Nickel Plating’ from ‘Gateros’ around £40 but even that is rather excessive for the amount to be done. No, I’m not trying to do it on the cheap per se just reluctant to make that outlay for something that will not get any further useage beyond these few parts.

 

Clive your info is very informative – thank you.

I wasn’t aware that the parts need copper plating first for a start and your comment on the brushing probably explains the ‘Brushed’ N P above – an email to Gateros requesting further info has already been sent.

 

I had considered stainless as a possible alterative if getting these parts NP proves too involved so this is an option. You are correct of course in that most needle valve assemblies were made in brass and finished as such and occasionally in ally but plated is very unusual. However it appears that these Eta engines were finished in that way and as such ‘brass finished’ isn’t going to be in keeping with the original. Though they (the engines) are not exact replicas due to the limits of machining I feel I should at least try to replicate the characteristics of the original if at all possible.

 

I can see though I now need to look further into the actual process a lot further before making a decision – in the meantime if anyone else has any experience of doing this at a ‘Jam jar’ level then I’d be pleased to hear from you.

 

Thanks for the input Clive

 

Regards – Ramon

 

 

 

 

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Hi Ramon,

I think that there is some slight mis-information about plating by one of your earlier answerers.

If you are plating Brass, the Copper plate should not be necessary.

In quality work on Steel you should first plate with Copper and then Nickel and then Chrome, if you are Chroming.

I admit that things might have changed in recent times, it is many years since I took the weekly run to the platers.

chriStephens

[jomacParticipant @jomac]

Ramon Hi. The site that I was looking at was one I had bookmarked years ago, It was called “model engineering”, unfortunately its an old Australian site, and hard to find, that also has articles and links to Land Rovers, RC helicopters etc etc On re reading the article on Chroming, I was wrong in suggesting a battery charger, it should be a DC current ie a battery, 6/12 volt with some sort of rectifier, (I am not a sparky). But “Caswell plating” is a good USA site with info on how to plate etc. and reasonably cheap kits, maybe they have outlets over there in the UK, otherwise postage might be a problem. Lets us know how you get on. All chromed IC engines would look good.

Keep up the good work.

John Holloway.

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for that as that’s just the sort of input needed at this stage. I have been sneaking in from the garden (when someones not looking) at any opportunity to find out a bit more. I have found some excellent info on You Tube which is just the kind of thing I mean – done in a jar that is – literally. Because of the domestic interference I haven’t had time as yet to study it though.

As with the anodising done on the previous engines I will now look into this as it does appear to be able to be done without too great an outlay. I would much prefer to go this route than use stainless though that is still an option if all else fails..

 

Yes we have Caswellls over here too John though they tend to appeal to the ‘larger’ user or did when I looked last. I don’t intend to get into chroming at this stage but who knows what may happen in future.

 

Thanks agin for the input – it’s all appreciated

 

Regards – Ramon

 

[WALLACEParticipant @wallace]

There were a few formulas published in the letters page of MEW years ago giving the formula for electroless nikel platting – which might be easier for small componnents. And I think another advantage is that the plating is uniform – with the ‘normal’ electrolytic way, apparently it’s easy to get shadow and masking effects due to the electrodes being not the ideal shape.

 

Hasten to add I’ve never tried it though !!

 

w.

[VersabossParticipant @versaboss]

Hi Ramon,

as it seems the color of these engine parts is the problem? So why not get a few cm (or inches if you prefer) of Monel or the similar German Silver? I think both of these are not to distinguish from a Nickel plated part.

Btw, many years ago I bought a set of electroplating materials from the German firm Conrad. My fear was that it will be forbidden soon. I don’t know if it is now, or if they still sell it. However, I never used it, and it is gathering dust in a closet. Having a look at it, I even think that the ‘Nickel electrode’ is stainless steel and so might not work anyway…

If you would be closer you could have it for a test. 

Greetings, Hansrudolf

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Whatever method of plating Ramon tries he may have trouble obtaining the chemicals in small quantities.

As I think you are after a cosmetic effect then the simplest method will be best.

As an aside, electro plating of copper and nickel including Chrome is porous.

The nice shiny effect of chrome is obtained by polishing the Nickel base and plating onto it with the chrome. This is also polished but sometimes it fails as most of us have seen the chrome peeling off our shiny bumpers.

The plating foreman would soon reject anything not up to his standard and was a patient man and would show how it was done , once!

I did in fact cadmium plate all the bolts and nuts on my m/cycle, passivated, they were not dangereous. The lustre of cadmium is sadly missed and only aircraft components are now cadmium plated.

We also had plating stripping baths and I occasionally ‘Lost’ a job by forgetting it was in there and it was dissolved to a wafer!

One of the main jobs was cleaning and replating the hammer and letter bars off Creed Teleprinters and they all had to be kept in sets.

There was also a degreaser/ paint killer bath called Magnus 755 which would take all the carbon off a cylinder head and return it like new metal. Better to see all the cracks and faults. Gunged up Diesel pistons came out like new as well.

My six months in the plating shop gave me a great insight into preserving of metal and the cosmetic finishes that could be done.

Now of course H & S have all but killled the job.

Later in my Leica service I became involved in Anodizing, and luckily made good friends with the shop operator and learnt all there was to learn of tolerances allowed for the thickness of anodizing. All my maching was in HE30 and was anodized. AA15 or AA25 depending on the location it would be used in.

 

Clive

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Hi again,

 

Thanks for the continuing interest.

 

When I set out to anodize the cylinders on my last engine project it was a very quick and steep learning process but the end results made the effort and expenditure well worth the effort. It was also something that would be repeated again in the future so it was felt the outlay was justified.

 

This requirement for plating on the other hand is not seen in quite the same light so I don’t have the same justification. That said I would like to replicate the original as closely as possible within limits so will continue to look into it in the short term at least before I try the other, probably more sensible?, approach of machining the parts from a similar ‘coloured’ metal.

I have tried without success to source some Monel metal Hansrudolph but thank you for that suggestion. In all my modelling days however I have only ever seen it once before, in welding rod form many years ago and indeed used it to form the pulpit on a model of the Fairey Swordsman.

German Silver – is this another name for Nickel Silver as we know it or a different material? ‘Nickel’ Silver is readily available – certainly from this source here which I found this evening (If you aren’t aware of this supplier it’s well worth a look) – however I think stainless would be the better alternative.

 

I have heard from Gateros and apparently their ‘Brush Nickel Plating’ is ‘brushed’ on using a ‘wand’ connected to a power source. It is not carried out in a solution in a tank set up. Though they say this would be suitable I feel a small tank set up would be the better way to go.

 

I will continue then with the plating approach and, like the anodising, report back here with any results – good or bad – in due course.

 

 

As always my thanks to everyone for their input.

 

Regards – Ramon

 

 

 

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

If you don’t want to set up too much yourself, should you consider going to a professional? I got some parts of my steam launch engine nickel plated locally, the price was not too bad and the results excellent. Chrome would have been out of period for the nominal age of this brand new boat and engine, polished steel looks great for about five minutes or until you go near salt water. Even the nickel will need some care, eg keep it oily.

 

regards

John

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Hi John, yes I have thought of that, in fact there is such a small set up quite locally. However when I previously contacted him about anodising one small part he was quite brusque and quoted a minimum of £35 – with a very take it or leave it attitude. Oh I accept he’s in business alright but I’m sure it could have been included with something else.

Besides, if I went that route I won’t have the opportunity to learn something new and of course never be able to say ‘it’s all my own’

 

Thanks for the thought though. It’s early days yet – I still have to purchase the chemicals.

 

Regards – Ramon

 

 

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

There is a very good book on this subject, number 11 in the Workshop Pactice Series,

It is called Electroplating (by J Poyner).

This is very much a practical book and the subject is very well covered (please excuse the pun) from principles to chemicals, equipment used and power supplies.

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Thanks V8

I shall look into this as I have nothing on the shelf covering this topic.

 

Gray,I have only heard of the process via a friend who has looked into it for much larger items. I have seen some chemical advertised as such in my perusals but it was very expensive.

Is your experience work or home related?

 

The brush plating set up I enquired about still uses a current but it appears the ‘brush’ or wand as it is descibed is part of the circuit. I assume the chemical is then ‘brushed’ on and the plating builds up where it touches.

 

The parts I want to do are not yet made and probably will be the last parts to be done but I’m one to think ahead hence the post.

 

 

Regards for now – Ramon

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Graham has mentioned that some members may not know about Anodising and what it is.

Anodising is a surface treatment on Aluminium to give a hard durable surface and to give a cosmetic effect.

Anodising is non-conducting and would require penetration into the base metal to achieve contact.

The treated surface is extremely hard and does in fact add strength to a component.

AA25 will affect lathe tools and cause wear of the cutting edge.

 

The process is by etching the aluminium surface in a bath of hot caustic for a stipulated time to give a depth of etching which is then rated as an AA rating. I have only used three ratings, AA5, AA15 and AA25. I seem to remember these are Microns. correct me on this.

 

The articles are then place in a bath of sulphuric or Chromic acid and the anodes are Tin or Stainless steel. (maybe wrong) This process puts back a depth of surface and again is time sensitive. Important if items have to fit together.

 

After this they can be place in a dye, Black, red, Gold, Blue and other colours which penetrate the open pores of the anodised Aluminium.

 

The final process is to seal the surface of the coating and there are commercial solutions that do this. It is possible to coat the surface with PTFE as well!

 

Items that are Anodised are Water bottles in colour and shop fronts and I think the Audi car made of Alu is anodised as well.

 

If anyone wants to jump in please do so.

 

Clive

Edited By Clive Hartland on 19/04/2011 16:37:43

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Hi Clive,

Without looking it up to be certain, I seem to recall that the cathode is Lead.

christephens

EDIT I have just had a thought, I’m treating it with care as it is feeling lonely, is there not a really nasty chemical produced if Stainless were to be  used as the cathode, something to do with the Chrome content. 

EDIT 2 this might also would apply if a Stainless container were used. I could be wrong on all of the above, but it would be worth checking first. I tried to check my saved documents on Anodizing but it was only pictures came up, no wording.

Edited By chris stephens on 19/04/2011 18:08:05

Edited By chris stephens on 19/04/2011 18:12:44

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I dont know how I missed the lead and always get the Anode and cathode mixed up!

The Chromic acid vapours exhausted to outside kills trees anyway.

No wonder I have Asthma breathing all that muck in.

 

Clive

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

I’m a little confused guy’s.

 

When I looked into anodising last year my findings were that the only material allowed in the electrolyte was either lead (the cathode), aluminum or Titanium.

 

I was under the impression too that hard anodising was carried out at much colder temperatures which produces a much closer honeycombed surface such that it will not absorb colour. The early test pieces I did, subject to that very cold, cold-spell we had in May certainly lived up to that

 

There is another thread on my trials and tribulations elsewhere under the I/C topics. I assume though that this is the same kind of anodizing – is there another?

 

Regards – Ramon

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Ramon, when I went to my Anodiser he was using’ Tin’ as the cathode. Later he went onto something else and I bought the ‘Tin’ off of him to utilize in my bullet casting to get a 5% tin content in the bullets.

I made a profit by selling it on to the other shooters.

I know that he used Titanium holders as the customer was critical about the marks left by other means.

I have always assumed that the Anodising process was modified by the electrolyte used.

One point to bear in mind is that an Anodiser is after conformity or his customer will start making noises, so a continuous process has to be monitered very carefully whereas we who want small items done are not too worried by that.

 

Clive

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Hi Clive, well that is new to me but certainly serves to show what you think isn’t always neccessarily so.

 

Likewise the electrolyte – all I have read pointed to sulphuric acid but I guess that would be because of ease of obtaining it. Well it was when the articles were written – just try now!

 

I have not yet done enough to require uniformity though you may have read that the two Racer heads came out slightly differing colours. My needs are never likely to go beyond a few parts for an engine but when so they will need to be the same shade. I haven’t reached that point yet but it is something that I will have to be aware of when it arrives.

 

Thanks for your continuing interest

 

Regards – Ramon

 

 

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Some years back I went to a firm callled Star plating as they were the only ones who would do small batch colour anodising, they were doing it in rubber buckets!

It all came out very good depth of colour.

Perhaps there is a pointer here as a DIY job.

I would think that any process will do as long as the end result is satisfactory.

 

Clive

[Simon GearyParticipant @simongeary74381]

Posted by Clive Hartland on 18/04/2011 08:07:58:

Ramon, Nickel plating requires a base metal to plate onto so you will need to copper plate first.

I spent six months as part of my army tech. training in a plating shop at Donnington workshops and learnt a lot of basic skills there. Cleanliness both physical and chemical is paramount.

Another item is that the base layer , copper is polished to give a polished nickel layer.

Straight nickel will give a slightly rough surface.

Perhaps you should consider using stainless steel for the components or another alternative is Zinc plated and passivated.

All the processes involve an acid dip which will etch the surfaces.

Stainless steel is the way to go I think.

I sem to remember that most of the spraybars were made of brass in my engines of yesteryear, in fact I had to make a couple of them as some of my crashes were a bit spectacular and bits got broken.

I have also carried out black chrome work which still requires copper plating before being done, the copper is brushed off leaving a beautiful shining black finish which is all but impenetratable. This method was used on the components of the big guns recuperators to stop corrosion.

 

Clive

no it doesn't . i have plated all the corroded chrome parts on my motorbike ,and none of them had copper on them , complete BS , as long as whatever you want to plate is spotlessely clean you plate plate it with nickel ,

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I disagree, the basis of longevity for Chrome is a base of Copper and then Nickel and then a 10 Micron Chrome plate.

Perhaps a quick look at Wicky will help, if I had NOT applied copper and nickel the Foreman would have jumped all over me. I never saw anything chromed that was not copper and nickel first. Even brass number and name plates were done this way.

Clive

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