Newcomer / tinkerer

[Neil4444Participant @neil444488680]

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum. I'm nowhere near the skillset of a model engineer & would describe myself more as a tinkerer (or as wife says a professional bodger). I spend much of my time under old cars, fixing bikes, in the guts of a jukebox or making something for the local community (e.g. smoothie bike). I often need to manufacture parts (washers, fixings, etc) and my lack of a lathe has often resulted in me spending hours trawling ebay for something specific or having to get someone to make something for me. Which is what brings me here. I'm looking for a small lathe so will be looking through the forum pages for info & advice.

Neil

[Neil4444Participant @neil444488680]

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Welcome aboard shipmate ! Where abouts are you – roughly ? Noel.

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Hi Neil

Welcome to the forum

H

[Neil4444Participant @neil444488680]

Thanks for welcome. I'm in Sussex.

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

Welcome Neil. We'r not all super – skilled, many are just like yourself – keen but willing to learn. The question you ask is a very common one – what sort of lathe do I need? Its a bit of a how long is a piece of string question or there isn't a one size fits all answer. If you start going through a miriad of previous posts you will probably get confused – bit like when buying a car – some people like ford, some vauxhall, VW etc and then there is engine size, Petrol ,diesel, electric etc – you get my drift?

Start by thinking about – honestly – how much money you are prepared to spend! how much physical space is there where you will be putting a machine? If you eventually decide to buy a new machine also remember that tooling can cost as much on top as the machine itself! If buying secondhand you may get all that thrown in which helps.

Try to get a rounded idea of what sort of things you will most likely be making – obviously the size & scale will determine the size of machinery you need. You will Never find an ideal piece of kit for every job believe me!

Dont be in a rush, ask advice but the more specific your requests the more useful will be the answers.

All the best. Mike

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Welcome to the Forum.

You will always find help and advice on here.

"What lathe" $64,000 question!.

Nice to buy new, but many a good tune played on an old fiddle, especially when you know how, if the budget bis limited!

I've seen superb work made on a 100 year old lathe.

Find a local Model Engineering Society and join.

You will find face to face advice, maybe even demonstration, or a chance to try your hand..

Where are you located? There may be someone nearby who can help personally.

Buy at least two books, and study them, before you buy. They will help to crystalise your thoughts.

A set of Zeus Charts, you will use them for then rest of your life, from time to time.

These books will tell you how to set up your lathe so that it

L H Sparey "The Amateur's Lathe" was the "bible"

Ian Bradley "The Amateur's Workshop" Covers hand tools as well the lathe.

Stan Bray "Basic Lathework"

Harold Hall "Lathework"

If you choose a mini lathe

David Clark, Dave Fenner and Neil Wyatt have all written books on the mini lathe.

Knowing a little more about lathes, their operation and features will help your choice of machine.

You won't use all the "bells and Whistles" all the time, so may not need them, but when you need one and it is not available, it is frustrating. Sometimes, you can find a means of working around..

Have a look at the Workshop Practice Series of books. You won't need many of them, but you may find what you need to get started among the many titles.

Tubal Cain – Model Engineer's handbook is a good reference book to have, also.

The jobs that you do or want to do will have a huge effect on what you seek, and the features that you want.

Your budget needs to allow for measuring equipment, and accessories, for which you will find a need before too long. (Bench Grinder, Four Jaw Chuck etc )

Using High Speed Steel tools will allow you to learn how to grind tools. (Some older lathes are not suitable for carbide tooling, they are not rigid or fast enough for it, and the bearings will not like protracted time at high speed )

Some you can make, as part of the learning and familiarisation process

Riding some of my hobby horses, Centre Height Gauge, Tap Wrench (es ), Die Holders (Hand and Sliding Tailstock types (Eventually, you may want to make a Sliding Tailstock Tap Holder )

They will all come in useful, and you will use them from time to time for the rest of your life. .

How big? When you have decided, try to find something next size up! You will eventually find a need, and yearn for it! Fantastic work work has been dome on lathes that, supposedly, are too small.

Do you envisage cutting a lot of threads, other than with taps and Dies? Try to decide between changewheels or a Norton Gearbox.

There are books on screwcutting which will help setting up.

HTH

Howard

[Neil4444Participant @neil444488680]

Thanks all for the great advice.

No real constraints on size or budget but I was hoping for a small machine circa £500 just to get me started. I had been thinking just a small hobby lathe as I like the price, size, weight, no external pulleys, etc plus I think they'd be fine for the basic type of work I'd be doing. But then I start to read some bad reviews about how many are produced in China and just badged differently by different sellers and aren't of great quality, strength, accuracy. Then I start to think actually I'd quite like a powered feed, screwcutting, a slightly longer bed, higher clearance, etc, etc, etc…

So as usual I'm going round in circles.

I do keep landing on the Myford ML7 as a good solution but then that's a bigger machine & bigger budget.

Neil

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

£500 won't get a new C1 lathe delivered! (A friend has just bought one as a basic learning tool, before he goes for something bigger and more versatile when he has more experience and confidence. )

Myfords command a premium (Having had a ML7, a bit of a cult, in my view, )

If you want a new machine with power cross feed, you are looking close to £2K, minimum. (Think at least 4 x that if a new Myford with a gearbox! )

Think carefully about:

The size of the work that you want, or will want to do (Once you find how useful a lathe is, you will want to do bigger work) You can do small work in a big lathe, but the converse is much more difficult.

(I've modified 10BA bolts in a lathe capable of swinging work 300 mm in diameter Not that I'd use it for watchmaking, IF I had the skill )

Think about what features you want, and will eventually NEED (A gearbox is a nice to have, but unless you want to screwcut a variety of threads, a power feed set up with changewheels ;might be a cheaper option )

Is Power Cross Feed a big requirement, or a "Nice to Have"? Personally, wouldn't be without it, but that's me., having experienced it.

If possible, try to get some, even if slight, experience of operating a lathe, before making a decision.

A secondhand machine, in good condition, might be better value for money. But beware of an older machine with shiny paint; not all have been refurbished as well ,or as accurately as it might seem.

HTH

Howard

[Neil4444Participant @neil444488680]

Thanks for all the advice.

I decided to start off with 2nd hand older machine and a Beswick (C H Joyce) G5 came up locally with a few extras, tooling, gauges, etc.

Pulley wheel a little sloppy on the axis & the left to right traverse cog has a little play but other than that seems very solid, functions quite nicely & perfect for my beginner's needs.

Just got to rewire (as had to cut it to remove from seller's bench) and then hopefully onto my first very basic project (a new shaft for my son's egg chair) this weekend.

Cheers,

Neil

[egaParticipant @ega]

lathes.co.uk has a write up for the Beswick.

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Welcome.

I'd never heard of Beswick lathes – expecting it to be made of porcelain – I was pleasantly surprised by the write-up on lathes.co.uk. From the pictures and brief description, it would seem to be a fairly sturdy machine in the Myford mode. The fact that the spindle runs in taper bearings is an unexpected bonus.

Enjoy your new acquisition.

John

[Neil4444Participant @neil444488680]

I have some of that variety too – flying ducks inherited from grandparents !

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

You have a lathe, so are ready to start your journey up the learning curve..

You are not the only "tinkerer" on here, (i now have company! )

Find a local Model Engineering Society and join. You will find like minds and a lot of face to face help.

Hopefully, the extras will ,include a four jaw independent chuck; a most useful accessory.

You will need the "Clocks" to centre work in it. That bis a skill which you will acquire as you practice.

FIW my advice is worth, if you are not used to lathes, buy one or more books, A bit of study will save a lot of puzzlement, and frustration., and provide useful knowledge.

First buy? Zeus Charts.

The choose one of the following

The Amateur's Lathe" – L H Sparey.

"Basic Latheowrk" – Stan Bray

" Lathework" – Harold Hall

You will need to get some measuring kit. Since your lathe is elderly, it is likely to be Imperial and ,use BSW and BSF threads. A Digital Calliper converts from Imperial to Metric at the press of a button, and most cover 0-6" (0-150 mm) (As an Apprentice, I bought a 6" Vernier Calliper, since it seemed to be capable of doing the same as a range of micrometers )

As an old lathe, it will probably be unsuitable for optimal,m use of carbide tips; so the tools will ,be High Speed Steel, which will, bring the need for a bench grinder, if you do not already have one

The books will advise how to sharpen lathe tools.

I am an enthusiast for Tangential Turning tools. m You can make your own (Apparently, the UK distributor for the Australian Diamond Turning tool has just ceased operation, so supplies will need to come from Australia with the attendant shipping costs )

Model Engineers'Workshop has published at least two designs for such tools.

There are those of us on here who use them for a lot of our turning work.

One of the first projects, in my view, should ,be to make a Centre Height Gauge. If the tool is not on centre height, ,it will not cut properly, or maybe not even at all.

HTH

Howard

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

£500 isn't an unreasonable budget if you're willing to do some tinkering, I just bought a little project lathe that I'm hoping to get finished for around £500.

Spares or repair Clarke mini lathe eBay £156

Bison 100mm 3 jaw chuck with both sets of jaws and an unused set of soft jaws £60 eBay.

Pratt 6" 4 jaw with a back plate I can machine to fit £28 eBay.

The lathe has no motor so I'm going to fit a 1/2hp 3 phase and inverter, invertek UK made inverter £120 delivered, motor £60 , and the end result should be better than something you can buy new as the electronics on these little lathes seem to be their weak point.

I'll also be addressing all the usual quality control issues with these lathes and would like to add a rack and pinion tailstock function, generally I'm pretty impressed with the lathes build quality given some of negative feedback from owners, I would avoid buying these mini lathes from Amazon and eBay sellers that are not specific machine traders based in the UK, I've seen some absolute horror shows on YouTube of these eBay Specials assembled from rejected parts

 

Edited By Pete. on 09/11/2022 20:15:53

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

The 6" 4 jaw is bit cumbersome on this little lathe, I think I'll buy a100mm 4 jaw when I've finished this project as they're only about 50 quid, this 6" can go on my rotary table, but you get the idea that if you're willing to take on a bit of a project you can build something pretty good for your £500 budget.

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