Newbie from Essex requiring your assistance

[MickBParticipant @mickb25219]

Can anyone help me to identify this lathe please.

Probably British made, 60/70 years old. I’m told it

had a power feed which has been removed. I’m having issues with the tail stock. The widest apertureon the tail stock measures a tad under 10mm. It’s a taper and the only way I could think of measuring it was to either buy a few tools of various sizes to see which fits, I haven’t done this yet, or to place various size drill bits in the aperture. It will not take a 10mm bit, the 9.5mm goes 10mm into it, the

9.00mm bit 20mm in, the 8.5mm bit 30mm in,

the 8.0mm bit 35mm in, 7.5mm 120mm in, the

7.00m bit passes right through the whole 140mm

length.

They’re no makers marks at all on the lathe.

If there other questions that need answering, or

different photo angles required then please shout and

I will do my best.

Ian from ACE Euro Trade who was very helpful

suggested I solicit your assistance.

Many thanks for taking the time to read this post.

Regards

Mick

[MickBParticipant @mickb25219]

Unknown Lathe

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Your measurements are half-way to identifying the taper!

Use them to work out the y-in-x change or the angle (the former is the value usually used) then compare that to the standards published in engineering texts.

If the lathe is British-made the taper is most likely Morse; and if so, centres, drills and other tooling is readily obtainable. The spindle should have a similar, possibly size larger, taper as well, allowing turning between centres.

'

I'm a bit surprised it has no name or trademark on it though that may have been on a plate long since lost. If you can find it, or someone identifies it, then look on Tony Griffiths' lathes.co web-site, our "bible" for identifying and finding the history of machine-tools ancient and modern.

It looks an admirable find, in good condition still capable of quality work.

That little tool-tray (I guess it is) on the tailstock is a neat touch!

Note what seem two tapped holes on the lower edge of the headstock. Do they hide grub-screws locking the headstock to the bed, or are they for an accessory such as gear-box, Myford fashion, I wonder.

[vic neweyParticipant @vicnewey60017]

The power feed simply uses the thread on the lead screw, all that's missing will be the gears and banjo which connect to the headstock mandrel and it should be possible to fabricate something to get it going.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Cute, well made, awesome looking pulley system which could fit a small fanbelt

Is it metric or imperial?

edit: count the TPI on the leadscrew, measure across the bed

Inquiring minds are interested, would love it to be British but it may be German etc

Edited By Ady1 on 22/02/2023 00:07:05

[DiogenesIIParticipant @diogenesii]

Your description of the taper might suggest MT0 ?

0 Morse Taper

[Brian Baker 2Participant @brianbaker2]

Greetings, might it be parts Houghton Cadet, which was normally supplied on a cast iron baseplate.

Regards

Brian B

[MickBParticipant @mickb25219]

1. Many thanks to you all for your valuable feedback.

   Nigel – I have no knowledge of the y-in-x change – isthere something I could read up on? I’ll take pics of the spindle late and send them on.

   Absolutely no name plate at all anywhere. The two

   tapped holes are being used for a cover that’s been fashioned and shown in latest pics.

   I’m a total lathe newbie but it is a very well made piece of engineering.

   Vic – I’d love to find out exactly how to do this – canI read about it anywhere?

   Ady1 – fairly sure it’s imperial but please look at the latest pics. Tooling is 1/4 inch.

   Diogenes II – again no expert but there is a suggestion that it is a fraction small for MT0

   Brian Baker 1 – many apologies but I have no idea – how would I research that thought

   

[MickBParticipant @mickb25219]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Michael Belcher on 22/02/2023 08:26:01:

[…]

Diogenes II – again no expert but there is a suggestion that it is a fraction small for MT0

[…]

.

It may be worth investigating Jarno tapers

MichaelG.

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

I think MichaelG has hit the nail on the head (again) with his suggestion. Jarno taper is expressed as a ratio of 1:20, which equals 0.05. Plotting your reported measurements into CAD, gives an included angle of 2,864°. Tan of that angle is 0.050027, which is close enough in my view. Since the Jarno taper was introduced by Brown and Sharpe – according to Wikipedia – I would start my search on lathes.co.uk with that manufacturer.

Good luck,

John

[vic neweyParticipant @vicnewey60017]

We need to see a full on view of the end of the headstock to see about the possibility of getting power feed restored one way or another. The main part missing is the banjo which fits on the bracket at the end of the leadscrew and has slots to hold the gear change wheels, these are common to many lathes and there are websites showing the making of parts such as this.

The missing gears can be adapted from other makes of lathe and are commonly seen on Ebay.

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Me, again. After a brief, unsuccessful, search for B & S on lathes.co.uk, I tried again with South Bend. Your lathe bears more than a passing resemblance to the South Bend 8-inch Junior lathe. Main difference that I can see are the maker's name on the bed and mounting feet (can't see your lathe's). This might suggest it could be a clone made in Europe?

John

 

Edited By John Hinkley on 22/02/2023 10:31:44

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

It might be worth emailing some pics to Tony at lathes.co.uk and asking him. It does look similar to a Haighton Cadet but with many differences. But would be too small to be a South Bend clone I think, at 10-12" between centres and 3" across the bed ways.

If you have a dial indicator, you can measure how much the carriage advances in one turn of the leadscrew and thus get an accurate reading of its pitch. Looks in your pic to be about 10 and a half TPI so maybe not British but rather a metric machine from the Continent?

No sign of a gear on the end of the headstock mandrel to drive feed gears or screwcutting gears. Perhaps the power feed was some other arrangement, either belts or something like a windscreen wiper electric motor and gearbox hooked up to the leadscrew?

The cast iron tray on the base of the tailstock is very distinctive. Never seen that before. And what is that silver lever sticking upwards next to it, coming from down at the leadscrew end? Never seen that before either. Some more pics of that arrangement and of the other end of the headstock and of the apron on the carriage would be helpful too.

[MickBParticipant @mickb25219]

Hopper

Many thanks for your time it is much appreciated.

I have sent some pics off to Tony as suggested and will report back when I hear from him.

I’ll take more pics later as requested but – and please forgive my ignorance.

The silver lever sticking upwards on the rhs of the cast iron tray locks the tail stock chassis I believe.

can you just explain what the apron refers to and I will be happy to send pics if it.

regards

mickb

[vic neweyParticipant @vicnewey60017]

Posted by Hopper on 22/02/2023 11:19:35:

I

No sign of a gear on the end of the headstock mandrel to drive feed gears or screwcutting gears. Perhaps the power feed was some other arrangement, either belts or something like a windscreen wiper electric motor and gearbox hooked up to the leadscrew?

———–

There does appear to be a large collar/ fixing place for the banjo and the leadscrew is seen protruding from it, very similar to a lathe of mine. what is strange is that the mandrel adjusting nuts are visible but the mandrel itself does not continue on for the fixed gear as is usual. The protruding part of the leadscrew would line up with the missing mandrel gear were it there

I can see how at some time in the past someone might have removed the banjo, possibly because they had gears missing and then it would get mislaid but how come the end of the mandrel appears missing, surely someone would not saw it off, an end view of the headstock might reveal some clues

[MickBParticipant @mickb25219]

Michael & John – I will investigate the Jarno taper and get back to you.

Vic – hope the pics are the correct ones for you to take a look

Hopper – I don’t have a dial indicator but I can tell

You that 3 complete turns of the lead screw = 5/16”

Of movement. I’ve attached a new pic that shows 10TPI which I’m fairly confident is accurate, together

With further pics of the silver lever as requested

I really appreciate all the opinions and time .

Many thanks

MickB

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

4 inches across the bed and 10TPI, nice spindle hole size

The whole thing looks really well thought out, and built,

a Drummond cowells lovechild, a PROPER super adept

It must be a USA import is my guess, a UK maker at this standard would surely be well known

There seems to be a few of these unknowns about

Edited By Ady1 on 22/02/2023 14:29:11

[vic neweyParticipant @vicnewey60017]

Thanks for the additional photo's and don't worry about us using our time to help, we are enjoying it!

I'm even more convinced there was a banjo on this lathe, apart from the end of the leadscrew casting having a location for it, the hole below the mandrel possibly being for the leadscrew reversing mechanism although a bit large for that but who knows, it's there for something and has a machined flange.

The way to get around the missing mandrel gear would be to utilise some kind of fitment inside the bore to extend it and hold the gear, maybe you would sacrifice being able to push lengths of rod through the mandrel but maybe you still could but reduced size depending on what you fitted to hold the gear

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

An early perfecto?

The headstock casting is very perfecto, (not at all "German" -)

Edited By Ady1 on 22/02/2023 15:13:46

[MickBParticipant @mickb25219]

All round shots of the head stock if that helps.

Putting all my cards on the table I do struggle to

understand some of your posts as you are all very.

knowledgeable about the subject and I am anything

but. No idea what a banjo or Mandrel is in this

context but I will continue to try and follow as best I can.

[vic neweyParticipant @vicnewey60017]

Here is an Ebay link showing a banjo lathe banjo the gears are fixed onto it, the mandrel is the part you have the chuck screwed on to the front of, another word you would be more familiar with would be to call it a spindle.

There are lots of banjo's for sale on Ebay UK but you need one where the round part fits your lathe on the leadscrew casting

Edited By vic newey on 22/02/2023 16:13:29

[MickBParticipant @mickb25219]

Thanks vic

[MickBParticipant @mickb25219]

Thanks to your valued feedback I am getting the impression that this lathe has a Jarno taper and not a Morse.

If that is the case I have a couple of questions.

Is tooling this lathe going to be difficult, MT seems to be plentiful but I have not come across Jarno very often?

If it is difficult to get tooling is it possible, practical, desirable to change the tail stock to accept more readily available parts?

thanks

Mickb

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Those extra pics show lots of very distinctive detail not seen on the run of the mill small lathes of the era, like the handwheels, tailstock, apron, cross and top slide construction etc. And it all smacks of quality, not cheap hobby machine. Intriguing.

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