New workshop – your recommendations

[merlinParticipant @merlin98989]

If you have a wooden door to the workshop you could fit one of those little spy-ball thingeys that will allow you to see what is going on in the outside world, front or rear. They are cheap and easy to fit and no-one can see in.

[Charlie Smith 1Participant @charliesmith1]

Our garage is a prefab concrete deal with asbestos roof, the Thing I would most change about it is the fact that the above head storage is non existant, because the small angle iron cross braces easily bend with any weight on and make the roof bow. If your ever likely to want storage overhead then you will have to think about this before construction as our prefab concrete panels are only bolted together and although it serves well it is limiting factor with regards to metal storage etc.

Also Run some Cat 5 network cable whilst you've dug up the trench for power or you will regret it if you use a CNC machine or want any kind of connectivity, and wifi just wont reach.

Water for cooling / drinking / quenching?

Also doorways are a consideration for garages / workshops will you ever need to get something big in or out that wont fit through normal doors? -probably likely, Maybe you could get some cheap roller shutter doors from an old shop / garage / industrial place.

Compressed air, do you use it often? would it be an idea to run static piping instead of wrestleing rubber hoses every time you get the compressor out?

[littlerickParticipant @littlerick]

I would suggest putting a earth wire from ALL metal machinery to a good earthing clamp… Its not uncommon for a static build up to occur where friction is involved… A belt of static can be far more dangerous than sticking a finger in a socket.

Rick

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

John,

You don't say what sort of floor you'll be having, but I assume it will be concrete. When we had our new garage built, I tiled the whole lot (30 square metres!), common practice out here in France. Mind you, you have to be careful in your selection of tiles so as not to get ones that are "slippery when wet"! I found out the hard way! I use a piece of off-cut carpet in front of the machines for comfort underfoot (and to catch a lot of the swarf)! A quick go with the wet and dry Vax soon sorts that out. You can just see a bit of the tiling in one of my album photos soon after installation of the mill.

I'd second all the tips regardng insulation. I don't have enough and there's an annoying gap at the bottom of the garage door where the wind whistles through. On the plus side, I'm a dab hand at rust removal!

Good luck,

John H.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

From a purely practical viewpoint, I'm increasingly convinced it make sense to live in the workhsop and move the tools into the house. A much better use of space, and the loo and kettle are much easier to get to. Anm 8×16 garage or shed should be big enough for the distaff side's requirements, just make sure it is nice and warm!

Neil

[Harold Hall 1Participant @haroldhall1]

On another forum my posts were removed for even mentioning my books, even though the subject had initially been raised by another, as selling was not allowed on the forum. I think I am safe here though.

My book "The Metalworkers Workshop" covers the subject of setting up and equiping a workshop. Of course, with only 160 pages it is brief in some aspects. There is also a version published in the US having the same title.

For more details see here **LINK**

Harold

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Neil,

Your comments remind of the member of a club who did just that.

Every room, except one bedroom, had its fair share of machines installed.

One room had a commercial riveter in it, which tended to upset the neighbours when used at night!

Geoff – Two bedrooms converted into HobbyRoom & Office

[Jerry WrayParticipant @jerrywray14030]

I question the use of fluorescent lights with rotating machinery.

Jerry

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Jerry Wray on 14/09/2013 12:26:28:

I question the use of fluorescent lights with rotating machinery.

Jerry

Please lets not drag this subject up again, it's been beat to death over the years.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

If any of this helps anyone, I offer the following details of my shop; (sorry to be SO wordy).

The one thing that I got wrong was to mount the workshop on slabs on sand/cement.

With 20/20 hindsight I would have had a concrete base, probably with steel reinforcing mesh.

1) CONSTRUCTION.

After very protracted negotiations with the Head Chef/Gardener etc, the maximum allowable size was 10'9" x 6'9" (NO WAY could the Bay Tree be re located, nor the Patio Wall!).

To provide headroom above the Mill Drill, the external height was 8 feet, sloping down to 7'6" at the rear. (Guttering takes the rain into a butt which helps cheer the Head Chef/Gardener etc a little).

For security, it has no windows, (I would only have covered them with shelves anyway).

The door is a fire door, the weight of which required 100mm x 50mm framing at that end, with a 6 lever lock, and three home made hinge bolts (see later). This is set, slightly off centre, (to align one edge of the frame with the front edge of the Fitting Bench,) in the 6'9" wall nearest to the back door of the house.

All wood construction, the framework is 50mm sq, with 19mm external cladding, and fibreglass insulation covered by 12mm ply internal cladding.

The roof is similar construction coverd by underfelt and good quality top felt , bitumen bonded to the timber. Nails only used to secure the capping strip around the edges.

The external walls are painted every two or three years with two or three coats of a water based preservative

2) Flooring.

The basic floor is 18mm ply, supported by 5 off 8" x 2" bearers, running the length of the shop. The centre two were spaced so as to admit the legs of a folding crane for machine entry.

I was lucky enough to be given some ex industry plastic mats with which to cover the "central" area of the floor.

These sit on top of some 15mm chipboard.

Similar, but in rubber was available from Toys r Us, at £18 for a 1 metre square. (MUCH cheaper than buying Industrial matting from folk like Cromwell Tools).

3) Electrics

Not REALLY the best!

Fed from a RCD in the Utility Room via flat 2 core and earth cable (What I would call 14/029).

There are eleven metal clad double sockets (One of which contains a filter, to prevent anything nasty from the thyristor invertor for the lathe from upsetting our house, or anyone else in the locality connected to the same phase) connected on a ring main.

It is MOST unlikely that I would use two machines at the same time, as well as a Fan Heater, so no problems anticipated, or seen, with current draw.

(A Brennenstuhl monitor, never shows the invertor for the 1.5 hp motor on the lathe drawing much more than a couple of amps. On a heavy cut, or a very rare dig in; the belts will slip).

Lighting

All fed, quite incorrectly, from sockets!

Two 5 foot fluorescents on the ceiling (the second, switch fed off the first when needed).

A worklight over the Fitting Bench and Bench Grinder, now with an LED lamp.

Two worklights, one each side of the Mill Drill, fitted with LED lamps.

(The worklights came, as you might guess, from the scrapyard at work, and merely needed cleaning up)

The 24 volt Halogen supplied with the lathe. (Modified by filing two 5/16" slots on the outer edge of the "reflector" to improve ventilation. Since then, the appetite for 24V 50W lamps – which are seen as frequently as hens teeth, has ceased).

Benches

Lathe Bench – Actually some ex supermarket wharehouse staging, standing on heavy angle iron to spread the load. Originally was supposed to be levelled by M10 setscrews, but so rigid that the rear leg at one end lifted in unison with the front one. This necessitated a rethink on the lathe mountings! The lathe now rests on three heavy angle iron cross bearers, which are supported by welded on angle irons resting on the 3 x1.5 inch lateral beams of the staging.

Fitting Bench, Steel topped, box section frame, bought from the scrapyard at work, 60 x 30 inches, but cut down to 18 inches wide and rewelded.

Mill/Drill is on 60 x 30 inch deep steel topped angle iron bench, (again ex works scrapyard) but cut and spliced to fit between the wall and the chip tray of the lathe (which slightly overlaps the end). Beneath are wooden drawers containing, in a jumble, tools like hacksaws, and automotive items that may come in handy one day. The drawers are supported on heavy angle "ladders" , welded to the bench at one end and bolted at the other.

High above the Mill/Drill, on the end wall, is a security light, which will illuminate if the mains supply fails, to allow switching off all electrical items, prior to exit.

Ventilation is by an ex equipment 6" fan fitted high up, between the cladding, and with fixed vents at floor level. Externally, there is a duct over the fan opening, to prevent rain ingress.

Heating, when required is by a thermostatically controlled 2 Kw fan heater,. which only runs for a small percentage of the time, given the insulation. A lot of time, I work with the door open unless it is raining.

Rust is almost unknown, VERY little seen in the ten year life of the shop. Last winter was the first time that any, even very light, was noticed.

 

Edited By Howard Lewis on 14/09/2013 13:04:53

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Home Made Hinge Bolts

These are just long (2 – 3 inch) heavy gauge (10 -12) woodscrews with the heads turned down, or off.

These are driven, one at a time, into a pre drilled pilot hole in the rear edge of the door, by means of a drill chuck, to leave about 1/2 to 3/4 inch protruding.

The door is then partially closed so as to mark the door post for the position of the clearance hole into which the bolt will fit.

The process is repeated for as many other Hinge Bolts that you want to fit.

With a good quality, 5 lever lock, (or Padlock on a hasp that has been coachbolted to the door), the workshop should be fairly secure against the lock being picked, the door forced, or the door being lifted out after the hinge pins have been driven out.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Update:

I have just bought a compressor the other week from MM on one of their VAT free days (usual discl&#39 German model, BT-AC 200/24, & have it fitted with one of MM’s 5 meter spiral coil hoses, its noisy but it packs some wallop on output when I tested, It plus a 2 year guarantee.

Charlie S… was contemplating running a static pipe around the wall myself, but at the mo’ I’m not using the compressor that much, so for now…

Someone mentioned Part P… (John S?) My wiring was fitted in accordance with Part P regulations & accompanied with the appropriate installation, compliance & test certification (home insurance notified to this effect).

Have also put 2 fire extinguishers in there as well, not the large industrial (6Kg) type but 1 kg size home model (also put one in the kitchen to boot!) I have now removed the ugly space blanket from my roller door & will be fitting sheets of kingspan/Celotex to the inside, as the door is 1” integrally insulated I’ll only be fitting the 25mm thickness, so, along with my previous post, I’m more or less done with setting up… he sez!

Cheers

George

[Jerry WrayParticipant @jerrywray14030]

Sorry John,

Can I take it that there are no known accidents amongst the model engineering fraternity traceable to that cause?

Jerry

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Note. If you bitumen the felt to the roof timber it will be a pain to rework. It took me days to strip the cowboy job on my garage because of this. Cowboy 2 had floated another layer over it probably after seeing the mess from the builders original job. The nailed up first layer allows the wood to move with time and temperature. Wicks feltt and trowel on mastic is great. Don't use the 'torch on' or other gimmick as they skimp on the mastic.

The vapour barrier needs to be on the inside side of the insulation not up against the wall. Make a ventillated air gap between the wall and fibre insulation so that any mositure that gets in from outside can get out again and not get sponged up by the insulation. One way is to use a thin layer 1 inch of polystyrene spaced off by loads of plastic milk bottle tops nailed to the wall. Despite the expense note that Celotex or Kingspan is nearly twice as good per inch as fibreglass.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The chap who built the workshop to my drawings, has an excellent reputation, (Never advertises, satified customers are his sales force) and used bitumen to secure the felt, (No nails equals no possible leakage points) He tells me that a bitumen felt roof can be covered upto four times before total stripping is needed.

So far, mine is ten years old from new and has caused no problems. (You get what you pay for, so he used good quality under and top felt).

Yes, when the roof eventually does need reworking, the bitument will be a PITA to remove, but worth it for the freedom from worries about leakage and the ensuing rust on all my lovely equipment.

(Final reworking probably won't be in my lifetime)

Howard

[Jerry WrayParticipant @jerrywray14030]

Some weeks ago I mentioned that I had ordered a new lathe, Warco 280v-F.

Some days later a ordered a new VMC mill, which has now arrived and has been positioned, but I am still awaiting the lathe.

Pictures of the VMC are in my album.Luckily the flooring joists took the load.

JerryNotts

[merlinParticipant @merlin98989]

Spy-ball definitely – it will save you wondering what the sudden noise outside is all about and whether the postman has brought your Premium Bond win. Cut a flap in the insulating curtain so as not to disturb the seal at the bottom.

I don't think that there can be a really convenient place for 13A sockets but I wouldn't have them on the front edge of the bench. I wouldn't feel happy leaning against them and a spill of white spirit or paraffin could run there, unless you put a back slope on the bench top. A socket with a plug inserted can rob the bench of about 4 inches in depth, with the lead probably lying on the bench surface ready to be cut by any heavy item. Anything heavy slid onto the bench will be stopped by the socket, possibly by the plastic switch. Mine are about 8 inches or more above or even higher and I have been pleased with this.

I, too, thought about the flickering fluor effect but I have never witnessed it.

In the vice area leave yourself plenty of headroom for leaning forward and for wielding a hammer.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The modern compact fluor bulbs are OK, they operate at a much higher frequency than the 50 hz of the old ones, so they won't cause a strobe effect. Ian S C

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

And another point. Make sure you don't get absorbent flooring like mine. You spend a few hours making a very small detailed part and it leaps out of your hand never to be seen again – until you make a second one. And of course, these things are non magnetic.

[Daniel SchmidtParticipant @danielschmidt54957]

Stay away from carpeted floors. You will hate cleaning spills all over your flooring.

[Kevin BennettParticipant @kevinbennett25223]

you need good door security I have 3 locks one is a door bar also an alarm as I have had a recent brake in my workshop

[David FrantzParticipant @davidfrantz83085]

Do not underestimate the importance of good lighting. This from somebody that has done the lighting in his shop 3 times.

I have aver reservations about your approach to the floor. Ideally the floor should be a heavy slab of concrete at least 6" thick. This especially the case if you ever expect to install larger machines.

As as for electrical considerations, things are done strangely in the UK. I'm not sure I can help a whole lot but at the very least have individual circuits for your larger machines. This especially the case for large air compressors, lathes or mills. For safety always have the overhead lighting circuits separate from the machinery circuits.

Machine mounted lights are another deal. Generally you want a sub circuit that is installed as part of the machines controls. This so that the machine is completely dead when powered down. This doesn't happen in reality all that much though. An alternative is overhead track lighting.

For your flooring either epoxy paint or hard tile. Works stations can be made more comfortable with rubber mats or wooden slat mats.

Dont over do benches, storage becomes very important as you build up your shop. In some instance you need need something more like a counter top on a set of storage cabinets. Frankly this would not be unlike a kitchen.

Posted by John Coates on 30/04/2013 19:47:38:

Started marking out the garden for the new workshop today. Decided I need to start so it might be done this year and I don't spend another winter looking at my freezing garage wishing I could be metal bashing

It will be 12' by 8' internal. Double layered flooring laid cross wise over 50mm insulation on concrete over hardcore. Walls and roof will be 50mm insulation with log lap exterior (felt on roof). All walls and ceilings boarded out. Small windows looking west. Moisture and vapour barriers.

What I want are your learned thoughts about anything else I can design in or should consider. So far from reading "shed" or "workshop" threads I have gleaned:

– you can never have enough power sockets: I intend to run power from the consumer unit in the garage via a conduit to a smaller consumer unit in the workshop. This will have a lighting circuit and power circuits. All my machines (lathe, mill/drill, shaper) are converted to 3 phase from inverters so don't need a huge fuse rating (10A I reckon?) for this circuit. Other stuff (pillar drill, grinder, bandsaw) are single phase

Can I have the machine lights (bench height) on the same circuit as the ceiling lights (probably fluoro tubes) ?

– flooring: needs to be cleanable and durable, any suggestions?

– layout: there will two 2' doors in one of the 8' ends. I consider this the "dirty" end as it is closest to the doors so easiest to sweep muck out onto tarpaulin or the like

But what about swarf control? From the mill and shaper the blasted stuff flies everywhere so will reach all corners of the workshop unless I do something. Pointing the shaper towards the door is one possibility so the swarf flies that way! Maybe a perspex screen around the mill/drill?

Any wall adjacent are not occupied by a floor standing machine will be benched

Anyway those are my thoughts at this stage. Any other considerations or suggestions gratefully received

John

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