New Warco WM250V (I think) with some concerns

[Chris Warnes 1Participant @chriswarnes1]

Hi All,

I recently bought a Warco WM250V DRO lathe in their sales which arrived the other day, but whilst setting it up I have some concerns. Warco have been excellent so far with their responsiveness and support, so I am not overly worried, it will be sorted however would be good to get people’s thoughts and advice.

I expect some, if not all issues are general over worry and unfamiliarity with the lathe (I am moving from an old tired Myford ML4). However if I run through problems so far:

– First was that the lathe came with both belts fitted, contrary to the manual which notes specifically to fit the belt before using. Warco confirmed the manual is wrong in this instance and both belts do come fitted

– Second is the RPM digital display isn’t working. I’ve traced this down to the filter board being dead after removing the front panel to gain access. Mains voltage is coming into it fine but there is no voltage output to power the RPM display. Warco have said they will replace this no problem

– When running the apron away from the chuck using the half nut engagement leaver, at speeds above around 1000rpm (guessing as I have no display) I get a light “thumping” which can be felt through the half nut engagement lever, it is in time to the rotation of the leadscrew. There is a cut out slot running in the leadscrew running its length I am sure an edge is catching ever so slightly on something but I see no adjustment options on the half nut. It doesn’t seem to happen with the apron running towards the chuck. Its most notable when the gearbox is in B position so I think with the leadscrew running its fastest. Perhaps this is my ignorance and the half nut should not be engaged when in high RPMs?

– Most worryingly (I think, could be ignorance!) is that the oil sight glass on the side of the apron is showing a low oil level. This in itself is not an issue, but on opening what I thought was the oil fill plug on the other side of the apron, it is full of grease. I really hope I am missing something obvious here and the plug on the left hand side of the apron is indeed for grease, and there is another oil fill plug somewhere I am missing?

I am hoping others with Warco WM250V lathes can comment on how theirs came, whether their experiences are similar to mine and whether I am just over worrying about things (and also if there is a hidden oil fill port I am missing!). I must reiterate Warco so far have been excellent with their support.

Thanks and all the best
Chris

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Hello Chris,

Sorry I can’t comment on the issues you’ve raised (I have the WM250), but rest assured, from my experience, Warco will do their best to get you sorted.  Unfortunately, the manuals are generally pretty poor.  I’ve had three Warco machines (WM240, WM250 & WM16), and found the manuals to be out of date, not well translated, grainy photographs and lacking some relevant information.  Not too much of an issue for someone with experience, but not helpful to a newcomer.

 

 

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

As Bo’sun says, the manuals generally are pants. But in my experience over the years, Warco is a good co. to deal with and they should address all of these queries to your satisfaction.

I’m a bit confused about your leadscrew comment, is the leadscrew gearing currently set for feeding or screwcutting (regardless of the 1000 RPM you mentioned?)

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

I’m not familiar with Warco products and their manuals, but Grizzly in the US generally have very good manuals on the same Chinese made tooling and can be down loaded.

[RobinParticipant @robin]

I got these 5V PSU’s with my Warco mill. They were sort of hanging free with wires all wound up with cable ties. Luckily I was able to pull 5V off the VFD and lose them. All neat, works a treat X) (Experimental smiley)

Robin

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

I’m not familiar with Warco products and their manuals, but Grizzly in the US generally have very good manuals on the same Chinese made tooling and can be down loaded.

Grizzly manuals are generally better than the Chinese originals  – but you have to be able to identify the Grizzly version of the machine you want a manual for to get the Grizzly model reference. If you just go to the Grizzly downloads page there are hundreds of manuals & the Grizzly model numbering system is totally random – adjacent model numbers are usually for very different pieces of equipment.

Prior to getting a Warco GH600 I tried to find a Grizzly manual but, in that instance, I was unable to identify that Grizzly had ever sold that particular lathe and so could not find a model number to get a manual. Warco did have a link on their site to the GH600 manual (when it was pointed out to me), but that was different to the manuals supplied with the lathe (the download manual was for a variable speed lathe, not the gear head version).

I found Warco responded quickly to the query I had about the lathe (the saddle travel dial on my all Metric lathe is graduated in Imperial units) but, ultimately, were unable to resolve the situation due to all the lathes being supplied by the manufacturer that way.

Nigel B.

[Anonymous]

Given there is a slot in the leadscrew I assume that is used to drive the saddle for normal turning with power feed, without needing to engage the half nuts. Unless you have lightening fast reactions, or have an Ainjest high speed threading attachment, you won’t be screwcutting at 1000rpm. So I can’t see a need to engage the half nuts at high speeds.

Andrew

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The apron might only have assembly grease to avoid oil dripping our during shipping. Use a bit of wire through the filler as a dipstick.
I don’t see an immediate equivalent in the current Grizzly range but you can look at the pictures to see if you can see an apron that looks the same. There is often ‘mix and match’ in the way these lathes are built up from modules to the importer’s preference and to get power x feed a larger ie 12″ swing style apron style might have been specified.

The half nuts tend to be in slides on these lathes that do have adjustment but that might only be possible with the apron off. However nobody in their right mind would would ever run screwcutting above 500rpm. (Cue Andrew with his Ainjest to refute that).

[Chris Warnes 1Participant @chriswarnes1]

Thanks guys,

The impression I get from all responses is that Warco will be good at resolving any issues, and so far that is exactly my experience – they have been excellent at responding and I’m totally happy anything that needs resolving will be. The age old comments about issues are bound to arise its the way they are dealt with that matters.

Mike apologies my explanation was quite poor, and having gone back to the manual to make sure I use the right terminology I have confused myself further! Regards to the light “thumping” at around 1000rpm+ this is when using lever “C” of Fig.15 on page 10 of the manual to engage the half nut (the lever bottom right of the front of the apron). The power feed lever (“Q” of Fig.15) is in its “neutral” position (neither up nor down).

The change gears are configured as delivered which match the first column of the chart on page 13 of the manual (30,60,45,80,85/Z1,Z2,Z3,Z4,L) with the gearbox in “B” position. A reduction (I think) of around 1:7.5. This does mean the leadscrew is rotating quite quickly when the spindle is at 1000rpm+ (132rpm+) and this might not be recommended and results in the leadscrew oscillating or whipping slightly?

Its trying to determine which are actual problems (filter board being a definite) and which are just me coming from a much slower speed lathe and perhaps not understanding where limitations lay.

On the Grizzly manuals I did have an initial dig, the WM250V looks close to the G0602 but not exactly the same. I will do some more digging as a better manual would be good.

Thank you all and hope you are enjoying a long bank holiday weekend!
Chris

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

You are unlikely to be screwcutting at 1,000 rpm (The thread on the leadscrew will be in use anyway.)

The keyway in the Leadscrew will be used to power the saddle for power feed, either for turning, or if the machine has the facilkity for Power Cross Feed.

Again, although the chuck may be rotating at 1,000 rpm, the Leadscrew will not, even with a coarse feed rate. You would be unlikely to be feeding 3mm / rev at 1,000 rpm. The Saddle would cover the length of the bed in a few seconds!

Pure guess work, but IF the Leadscrew has a 3 mm pitch, for a finishing cut you are likely to be looking for a feed of less than 0.1mm per rev, so the Leadscrew will be rotating far slower, about 33 rpm so the “thump” is likely to be less pronounced. (Might be a burr, running the length of the keyway; which can be removed with a diamond file.  Have a look!)

For a fine feed, you will need to set the change gears to give a ratio of about 30:1, so will need a compound train. When setting the meshes, start at the Leadscew gear and run a piece of paper through the mesh to get a little backlash. Having done that, you can swing the banjo to set a similar mesh between the large compound gear on the stud, and the pinion on the Spindle.

Does the surface finish seem to be good, on a fine feed, for finishing? This where it will matter, and a finishing cut might be only 0.025 mm deep or less, with a feed of 0.1 mm per rev.

Effectively, you would be producing a helix, 0.025 deep with a pitch of 0.1 mm!

Suck it and se; you may be pleasantly surprised (Assumes a sharp tool set on centre height, possibly with a minute nose radius.)  Carbide tools may not be as amenable as HSS for shallow cuts and fine feeds, since their raison d’etre is to remove metal quickly, although they cam pleasantly surprise.

Howard  fat fingers strike again!

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Forgot to say that if you are power feeding, you should not be even trying to engage the half nuts.

Is it posible that the “thump” is the half nuts JUST contacting the Leadscrew when the keyway is being used for power feed? A slight adjustment, or must keeping hands off the Half Nuts engagement lever, might cure that!

Many lathes are designed so that either the leadscrew, or the power feed can be engaged, but very sensibly, not at the same time.  Otherwise everything would lock up.

You can’t have the Leadscrew trying to move the Saddle at 1 mm / rev and the power feed mechanism trying to move it at 0.1 mm /rev!

Finally, if you are unsused to a lathe, buy and read, at least one book on lathework.

Stan Bray, Harold Hall, Ian Bradley, L H Sparey are authors to look for.

Neil Wyatt, David Clark, and Dave Fenner have written books on mini lathes. Whilst these will have detail that does not directly apply to your machine, the detail and scale are the difference, not the theory.

The basic principles are the same for all lathes.

As an Apprentice, I used, for short periods, Dean Smith and Grace, and Edgwick centre lathes, as well as Capstan and Turret lathes.  All different in detail, but all working on the same basic principles.  After the basic three months on lathes, I saw but did not touch, a machine tool for about 20 years!

And I did not own a lathe for another few years after that!  But would not be without one, now.

Howard

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

One more thing to investigate as a source for your noise or vibration is the chasing dial. This is swung in and out of engagement with the leadscrew and clamped using the capscrew on its right-hand side.

On my metric WM250V this thing clicks if I have it engaged. Which I don’t because some discussions on here have suggested it’s not usable on metric threads on metric machines, and I’ve found myself doing mostly Imperial threads anyway – it’s a lot simpler just to leave the halfnut engaged and reverse out between passes. I suspect that the thing is there simply as a marketing requirement rather than for *actual use*  ;-D – and the manual carries no clue as to the logic it employs.

Nevertheless I like the machine a lot and it’s done nearly 9 years with me now, with no real troubles other than the ones I’ve made.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

To power feed you have the shaft running and then move the apron lever with the black end up or down to engage a dog clutch type arrangement which drives the cross slide or a pinion that engages with the rack on the front of the machine to move the carriage, it takes it’s drive from the slot in the leadscrew. This can be used throughout the rev range.

To screwcut you engage the half nuts with the silver lever to the right of the apron and are unlikely to be wanting to do it at anywhere near 1000rpm. The half nuts take their drive from the actual screwthread.The noise is you running the machine too fast in screwcutting mode

get some Warco “head oil” for the apron, it does leak out so needs a regular top up.

[Bazyle]

On Bazyle Said:

…nobody in their right mind would would ever run screwcutting above 500rpm. (Cue Andrew with his Ainjest to refute that).

Not me! Despite the Ainjest manual specifying speeds up to 3000rpm, I normally run at around 400-500rpm. Above that I find it difficult to get the half nut engaged when the detent comes round.

Andrew

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

The possibility of a burr in the keyway does seem a good reason for feeling a roughness at a particular point. I would find out where in the apron the nuts are and get an idea where to check for the burr or damage. It may be easy to rectify if simply a burr, but any damage visible should be a matter for Warco to take care of. As already noted, they are a good firm to deal with and like to keep their reputation, so they will definately help. I used to live about 2 miles from their works and back in the early 80’s my firm bought a new Myford Super7 from the founder before Warco existed.

[Chris Warnes 1Participant @chriswarnes1]

Once again thank you for the suggestions and reassurances. My testing thus far has been without actually cutting anything – just getting the lathe onto the workbench, levelled and then running through to make sure everything works as it should. This is part of the trap I set myself I think!

Quite easy to start bumping speeds up whilst testing, think you’ve found an issue and then go down the rabbit hole before stopping and asking whether I’ll actually be using the lathe that way. As you have all pointed out, no I will not be screw cutting at 1000rpm! 😀 The RPM display not working probably heightened my sensitivity (paranoia?) to issues.

I’ve checked for burrs on the slot in the leadscrew and nothing I can see or feel, and the chasing dial was backed off during testing (though good suggestion as that does tick when engaged). I’ve stayed well away from both the half nut and power feed being remotely engaged at the same time so I’m confident its not that. Short of tearing the apron apart I am happy the lathe behaves as it should at more sensible thread cutting speeds, so I am inclined to think I am/was just running things too fast for the half nut when testing.

Book/resource suggestions are always welcome I will look some of them up thank you. I do have The Amateur’s Lathe by L.H.Sparey which has been great alongside my old and now retired Myford ML4.

It is also worth mentioning that the plug on the side of the apron does have a big icon of a grease gun (I think, definitely not an oil can) next to it, so I am fairly confident that is supposed to be for grease and I’m just failing to locate where the oil fill plug is. There is definitely more than just packing grease inside there but its almost impossible to take a picture of. I am sure Waco will point me in the direction of the oil fill plug and it will be embarrassingly obvious when they do 🙂

[Chris Warnes 1]

On Chris Warnes 1 Said:

My testing thus far has been without actually cutting anything…

That’s precisely where you are going wrong. When I got my (secondhand) centre lathe cutting metal was the first thing I did once it was wired in. Same with the repetition lathe and both manual mills; get power connected and cut metal. In 20+ years I’ve never done half the tests talked about on here. I just make stuff.

Just for completeness I did the same with my new CNC mill. I cut a test piece with a program supplied by the manufacturer with the mill and computer sitting on the floor and some temporary wiring.

Andrew

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Within it’s limitations, the ML4 is a good machine, still capable of good work.

Can be useful to do work where you don’t want to break down something already bset up in the main machine.

As advised, start cutting metal and getting the machine set up, without twist, and with the tailstock aligned.

In this case, familiarity should not breed contempt, but improve output in both quality and quantity.

Go for it!

Howard

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