new to myford lathes

[Andy AshParticipant @andyash24902]

O.K. So I hope you're ready for a mammoth monster post……..

The method for setting up the lathe is going to vary, depending on what kit you already have.

If you're serious about using the lathe you're going to need a four jaw chuck anyway. In my opinion you're better off with a four jaw than a three jaw if you only have one chuck. That's not usually the way people think, but if you use a four jaw then you're going to need a dial gauge and magnetic base to go with it.

* Generally, once you get used to it, the four jaw chuck will be nearly as quick to use as the three jaw.

* With the dial gauge it will be much more precise than the three jaw.

* It can hold almost anything within the capacity of the lathe, which the three jaw cannot.

You're going also to need a piece of 1" diameter ground stock. A 13" piece of silver steel is ideal.

1) The first thing you're going to have to sort out is the gibs;

You can forget about the compound slide. You'll need to get he gibs for that right eventually, so you can get a good turned finish. To set up the lathe, you can remove the compound if you want. It doesn't affect anything. Gibs that matter are those on the saddle and the cross slide. The screws for the saddle are over the back, and for the cross slide they're on the right.

What you have to do is adjust and lock each screw to get a minimum of slop (twisting) throughout the whole range of the slide. You need to do this whilst not incurring excessive friction by over-tightening. On a new machine, the gibs will be easy to set. On an old machine, there will probably be some kind of compromise between the range of friction free motion, and the slop in the most used areas of the slide.

The slop will be by the headstock for the saddle, and somewhere in the middle of the cross slide. You can have the slides ground true if you want. A dovetail bed like the ML4 is the most awkward for the professional machinist to grind.

Do the lower slides first. When you do the upper slides, ensure that the lower slides are in the tightest region of their travel. That way you're only trying to eliminate the slop in one slide at a time. Start with the saddle, and when you're happy do the cross slide. If you're going to, do the compound last.

The headstock has three bolts and no dowels. There is a considerable range of movement, so the lathe can naturally turn quite a strong taper. The main bolt is the one below the pulley. It needs to be nipped, but not tight. The other two are below the front main bearing and hang down. These need to be loose.

 

2) Then it's the headstock adjustment;

You're not going to need power to the headstock for any of this, so make the belt drive loose.

Put the ground bar into the 4 jaw and roughly centre it by eye. There will be a whole length of bar sticking out of the chuck, but that's fine. Don't let the chuck get too tight. Put the dial gauge on the cross slide and move the saddle so that the dial gauge stylus rests on the bar within about 1/2" of the chuck. Accurately centre the bar, without moving the saddle.

Once you have the bar centred close to the chuck, you're going to find that the bar is wagging around, because there is such a length sticking out of the chuck. You're going to have to minimise that, and the only way you can do it, is to use packing between the jaws of the chuck and the ground bar. It's a process of trial and error and it will take a while, but you cannot do to good a job of it. I would recommend various different approaches depending on how accurate your chuck is.

a) If the chuck is good, then the bar will not wag much and I think you will be able to use thin hard packing, like brass or steel shim stock.

b)If the chuck is bad, then the bar will wag a lot, and you may be better off with soft packing like iced lolly sticks.

c)You might find a combination of both works.

Be methodical, get it concentric near the chuck, and then assess the runout at the end of the bar. Use a permanent marker add packing and repeat.

If this all proves too difficult you can get a test bar which is ground all over and has a no. 2 morse taper on the end. You put the test bar directly into the spindle nose and ditch the 4 jaw. This could work out quicker, but it might not work out at all. If the taper is not true in the spindle nose, then you'll never get the bar true to the bearings. With the four jaw and the packing, it will always be possible to achieve truth, but it might take forever to set up.

Don't forget that you don't have to cut anything, so if the truth is accurate but weak due to the use of soft packing, that's O.K.

Once you get the bar true to the bearings, don't put any forces into it. Treat it as precious.

Edited By Andy Ash on 07/05/2016 11:16:56

[Andy AshParticipant @andyash24902]

Only now you can run the dial gauge along the side of the bar by traversing the saddle. The bar does not need to be rotated, and it's probably better if you don't. If the stylus is not quite at centre height, it doesn't matter that much. Just keep the gauge so that the stylus moves in the horizontal plane, fairly close to centre height.

By moving the dial gauge back and forth along the bar, you will observe the misalignment in the headstock. Using, a small lead or brass weight, tap the headstock casting, low down close to it's seating plane. Gradually you will be able to bring the bar parallel with the bed of the lathe. Tighten the (loose) front bolts first. Then the main bolt under the pulley. Check that nothing moved. When you're completely happy that you have alignment, and that nothing can move, you can break the set-up down and see if you can turn parallel.

3) The final task is to set the tailstock true.

You need two centres and a long test bar. The ground bar from the headstock setup would do. You can make the test bar yourself, but you will then need a fixed three point steady. Obviously if you don't mind sacrificing your nice 1" ground bar, then the centres could be drilled into it with a hand drill. Then you don't need the steady.

If the test bar already has accurate centres, then you can just run the dial gauge along it like before. You adjust the screws on the front of the ML4 tailstock to position the offset. Adjust the screws until the dial gauge reads true. Do bear in mind that the adjustment screws and the clamp oppose, so if you tighten the adjustment screws, you'll need to loosen the clamp and vice versa.

Get an initial setting by pointing the centres at each other close to the headstock.

If you don't trust the accuracy of the centres in the test bar, then you can turn a short section of it, with the same cross slide setting at each end of the bar. When the turned diameters measure the same size, the tailstock is aligned.

Setting the tailstock on the ML4 is an iterative process. Because there are two screws to adjust the offset, then it is possible to have the tailstock barrel slanted relative to the bed. If this happens then the offset will be different depending how far out the tailstock barrel is poking.

Once you're accurately centred, you'll need to fully extend the tailstock barrel. You put the dial guage back on the cross slide, and with the saddle run the stylus along the side of the tailstock barrel. This time simply adjust one of the two screws to bring the barrel parallel to the lathe bed.

Obviously, when you do this your original accurate centre will have gone. So you need to do it again. You'll need to go around that loop until you're happy that the tailstock is true to the bed and by inference the headstock bearings.

I hope it doesn't put you off, but that's what you have to do, to bring it right.

Edited By Andy Ash on 07/05/2016 11:21:31

[wayneParticipant @wayne]

Wow Andy

who could ask for better than that mate you are a diamond .ive restored classic cars /classic guitars ,so im up for a challenge .

ok here goes a list of things I already have .

I have a dial and magnetic stand

a newish 5" 4 jaw independent chuck

a 4" pratt 6 jaw self centring chuck pretty spot on im told

a 15" x 1/2 bar that I got out of a ram (best ive got at the min

a 8" x 1" bar from another ram .

and mics and calipers inside bore gauges a live center

I think a good clean up to start make sure theres no hidden grime that may upset any settings .

Andy again thank you mate , you have ended my hours of searching the net

[Andy AshParticipant @andyash24902]

The six jaw in a nice thing to have. I don't have one. I decided to spend the money on collets.

I'd watch out for the rams especially if they are worn. They have to be straight and round. If they are it's fine, but if they were they would probably be in hydraulic cylinders! I don't know, I'm sure you'll work it out.

The live centre is essential for actual turning operations at the tailstock end. Never trust it for setup. Dead centres are so cheap, just buy a couple and keep at least one in reserve with a really sharp point. Quite often you want to turn between centres, and you will want a dead centre in the headstock end. You can use a tap wrench as a dog, and a bolt projecting from the faceplate as a catch.

The beauty of between centres is you can make several similar items and do each operation in turn. On centres you get very few runout problems even though you are continually swapping the workpiece in and out.

A faceplate is a very useful and very simple thing. Anything you can't do in the four jaw, you can do on the faceplate. I've even had my tailstock mounted on the faceplate before. (It was broken and needed repair)

 

Edited By Andy Ash on 07/05/2016 16:59:13

[wayneParticipant @wayne]

Hi Andy

an old mate gave me the 6 jaw when he retired from engineering he offered me his own boxford lathe free but at the time I was healthy and working 24/7 so didn't have the time , .he showed me a scaled down model he made of his 1950s era Norton 650 the detail was out of this world even the brake levers worked .and the 6 jaw was his favourite . on a side note I have Multiple sclerosis that started in my 40s some days I find it hard to think never mind stand or get my hands to grip things ,so I cant work and things are tight at times,so I will get a faceplate and some centres when funds permit .but less of that .ive been up the shed and made a handwheel for the feed screw which I think will help more with checking the full length and smoother operation as my apron hand wheel is not the correct wheel and is quite stiff and jumpy on the rack .I think the whole machine as been bodged up im starting to think about buying another and using one as spares . I was looking at one on ebay that looked complete a clean it went for £65 complete with stand /motor/and shaft and other bits n bobs .but as I tell the wife even a bargin costs money .the rams are quite new long one is from a rowing machine and the other from a hydraulic jack out of my mates boot that was never used. I mostly want a lathe to make air rifle tuning parts .I have already done a few but using my pillar drill as a upright lathe but its time consuming and more manual work to do . again thank you your such a help .

kind regards wayne

[Doctor DeniedParticipant @doctordenied]

Was the £65 ML4 this one? If so I was the person who bought it, i've been trawling threads looking for information about it for the last week, while waiting to collect it.

[wayneParticipant @wayne]

yes doctor denied that's the one .I was going to bid but it had ended before I had chance .

regards wayne

[wayneParticipant @wayne]

hello all

I got a super deal today 6 biscuit tins and a small toolbox full of lathe stuff ,a live centre /3 dead centres/12 change gear wheels/ and studs a back gear , a new feed screw handwheel / 4.1/2" backplate /a fixed steady/ a magnetic dti holder / a scribe gauge block/ toolbox full of cutting tools / adjustable reams /books manuals ,something that looks like o die holder but not sure ,gibs saddle or crossslide feedscrews not sure yet ,and other bits ive not gone through it all yet ,but I know 99% is myford stuff , £50 all in ,the cutting tools alone are worth that . plus carbide tips and holders .so now I have plenty of bits I can set my lathe up anything I cant use I will let you know.

cheers wayne

[wayneParticipant @wayne]

hello all

Well after stripping my ml4 down ready to clean up I have hit a brick wall ,the top slide as got a crack in it caused by the idiot who had it before me who fitted a quick change tool holder but must have stripped the original thread ,so they have forced in a helicoil which as cracked the cast about 1 mm gap by 25 mm long so that's why theres so much play even when adjusted so in effect the slides are wider one end to the other , I didn't notice the crack till I cleaned it up ,so now im on the lookout for a top slide or any suggestions ? I could get the crack welded up but that wouldn't make it parallel it would need to have the heli coil removed then grind the crack heat it up hoping to try and close the gap a little in a vice to get it parallel again then weld it then rethread it ? and I guess wouldn't be cheap to repair .I don't have welding gear now .or I would have done it . anyone got a way around this .im all ears .

regards wayne

[wayneParticipant @wayne]

I thinking again ,would it work if I added a adjuster to the opposite side of the top slide to take up the slack and wobble out as I feed ?

regards wayne

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

Wayne – I've got a spare one. Private message sent.

George

[wayneParticipant @wayne]

Hello George

that was quick mate im interested just let me know.

regards wayne

[wayneParticipant @wayne]

Hello all I managed to get the spindle out of mine today and its a mess full of grooves and scores , a threaded bar would look better , and it is a taper bearing that's been tack welded to the nose end top of the headstock but only to the top of the journal ? the p/bronze bushes are both there and they both still clamp down on the mandrel the original thrust bearing is missing due to the taper baring being fitted , bit of a bodge job I think .yes I know its a very old lathe and its been (modded) but not very well . the saddle had two of the adjusters snapped off leaving un adjustable stubs so I got them out and made new ones so that's ok now and will be adjustable on all four bolts . the tail stock adjusters were screwed through the front plate and the lock nuts fitted to other side so they didn't work but ok now .lots of silly things that could have been sorted easily .but I think its been just stripped in the past a quick paint over the crud .and that's it im stripping the paint as I go and checking for issues .could the mandrel scores be built back up any way ?

kind regards wayne

[Andy AshParticipant @andyash24902]

Hi Wayne,

I'm guessing that they have only welded the bearing to the top of the casting, so that the adjuster can still be used. If they had welded the outer to both parts of the slitted boss it would have prevented the slot from changing size.

Replacing the gib screws is always good. Make sure the locknut is good too. They'll wind themselves out if they can. Having good slots or even using socket screws can really help get the setting "just right".

The silliest little things make a lot of difference!

I don't know what to say about your headstock. The safest thing is to put it back as it was. The best thing to do is to find a way, to get a proper solution. A single taper roller bearing (if that's what was used to replace the thrust race) is distinctly non-ideal. The scoring alone, you might get away with.

Certainly if there is scoring in the region outside the actual journals then use a stone or a file, to reduce the height, so it cannot damage the bearings further. In the region of the actual journals, as little as possible change to the spindle. On the up side, because the bearings are so much softer than the steel spindle there shouldn't be too much scoring.

In the end you're just going to have to judge how far to go, based on how confident you feel, and how worried you are about making it worse. These old machines are pretty cheap, so it wouldn't be the end of the world if it was unusable afterwards. Equally if it's all you can get your hands on, or you just like the machine, maybe you'd be more cautious.

The scoring, could of course be reversed. It is possible to build up with weld, or better to have it metal sprayed. The critical thing with that would be that you would have to find someone to cylindrically grind it, back to it's nominal size. I suspect there is not enough value in the machine to make it worthwhile.

I think I said earlier. You don't need an immaculate machine to do very nice work. It might take longer, but knowing how is certainly part of the skill and the sense of satisfaction and achievement.

If you are unable to prevent the spindle being loose in the head, you will find it almost impossible to do good work. As long as it runs freely without any perceptible slack, all of the other problems are can be worked around.

[wayneParticipant @wayne]

Hi andy

thank you for your reply

it annoys me at times because I used to recon engines so line boring /crank grinding and all machining involved was a day to day thing ,and I could have restored the headstock in no time , but that was then , as for sorting the lathe out I know I am capable I just like as much info as possible from people who already know the machine in question ,it saves headaches , and yes they are cheap to those that can afford a gamble but unfortunately I cant. I cant work and on a very tight budget plus health issues .so I try to keep my brain active .that's why I wont be beat and let a £200 lathe get the better I cant afford to he who dares rodders

regards wayne

[wayneParticipant @wayne]

hello all

the story of my ml4 is becoming a nightmare .today I stripped all the nasty paint off the headstock to find filler on top behind the taper bearing that's been tack welded on ,and yes its a mess in the past the journal casting as been snapped and welded in a fashion once the filler was removed . bubble gun and blue tac would look better ,but I will continue my challenge till a ml4 headstock comes along .so if anyone has a spare for sale please contact me .

regards wayne

[wayneParticipant @wayne]

hello all

does anyone know if a myford ml7 rack will fit a ml4 my ml4 rack is 21" long with 6 fixing holes ,the ml7 as 6 fixing holes but I cant find the length or hole spacing ?

 

regards wayne

Edited By wayne on 21/05/2016 00:24:50

[wayneParticipant @wayne]

hello its ok now I have been told the ml7 rack don't fit .

regards wayne

[wayneParticipant @wayne]

hello all

can anyone help ? im looking for a 3 step flat headstock pulley for a myford ml4 mine is badly out of balance due to bad machining when it was made. its oval inside belt face runs true but the wall of the pulley is thicker on one side hence speed wobble it must of been a Friday when made ,if anyone can help please reply .

regards wayne

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Suggestion: Take it off, rig up a temporary belt system, skim it true, and refit?

[John Allan Watson BrownParticipant @johnallanwatsonbrown]

Glad someone else has a ML4. Can you join or pop along to your local Model Engineer society? They would have machines to get your pulleys true again. You might even have a fellow member with our type of lathe and chat about the best way to fix this over a cup of tea?

[wayneParticipant @wayne]

thank you for your replies .

good idea Ady1 I may try that when ive completed my renovation .

hello john thanks for the invite but I cant travel my illness limits my every day .

regards wayne

[wayneParticipant @wayne]

hello all

I rechecked my ml4 3step pulley 1 inch bore , and its not worth trying to skim it true ,a few teeth are chipped and 1 missing .so im still looking .but a can only find ml7 v pulley s and I don't know if one would fit a ml4 and if the gear would mesh with my back gear ? only other option I think ? I would like to keep it flat belt if possible ,so if anyone as changed from flat belt to v system and still have your old flat pulley for sale wink wink please contact me

regards wayne

[wayneParticipant @wayne]

it don't matter now ive got a pulley

regards wayne

[Colin SpenceParticipant @colinspence32575]

Hi, I am new on here and trying to find some help with a Myford Lathe I bought a couple of years ago. I am only now getting round to putting it together and setting it up. Firstly I am not now actually sure what model it is, I thought it was an ML3 but now after reading this thread I think it could be an ML4. The serial number is RD3211, I will try to add some pics but at the moment it is stripped down. I am also not sure what the gears are called but again hopefully some pics will help. There is a gear selector just below the headstock with two gears exactly the same, they have 20 teeth each and really need replacing as the teeth are worn. Also the gearbox cover and backplate have been broken, backplate was repaired but not well and the cover looks like it has been glued together. One of the mover wheels has been replaced with a modern round wheel but the screw thread has been botched together, I don’t have a pic of that at the moment due to the snow but will post when I can. I have looked on eBay but I see nothing for the early ML series lathes and all the gearing looks different. Any help at all would be amazing thank you in advance.

Pics to follow When I figure out how to add them!!!! 😉😉😉

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