New to model engineering

[BOB BLACKSHAW 1Participant @bobblackshaw1]

Hello, I have just retired and would like some advice on what type of lathe and milling machine would best fit a 8ft x 5ft solid floor shed. I have looked at Warco machines but are belt drive more reliable than the variable speed. The advice would help as I do not want to buy a machine then find later on I am not happy with it. I was a fine limit sheet metal worker some 15 years ago so have a good understanding with work shop practice, I miss making things as I have been in security work since the engineering days. I live in Bedford any advice will be appreciated, thanks for any replies.

[BOB BLACKSHAW 1Participant @bobblackshaw1]

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Welcome aboard Bob,

Those of us with variable speed would never want to go back to belt swapping.

What sort of models do you plan to make? Think of the biggest parts you will want to make and add on a margin for error and comfortable working and that will give you an idea of what machine you need.

Bear in mind future projects may well be bigger and you you will use up that extra capacity!

Neil

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

.

Hello Bob.

You could do a lot worse than have a jolly up the A6 to Leicester and go and see Ketan at ARC

He stocks the Seig C6 which should fit nicely into that space leaving you some room for storage and tooling ect. Plus you being able to move around.

Link to C6 **LINK**

You as somone who has spent time with 'tools in your hands' it would be nice for you to see and feel a machine before you part with your coins I should think.

Don't forget to budget for tooling.

Nick

[john kennedy 1Participant @johnkennedy1]

I would say that http://www.warco.co.uk/metal-lathes-metalworking-lathe-machine/303007-wm-250v-lathe.html

is a far better bet with inverter drive and power cross feed.

No connection other than a satisfied customer. John

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Posted by Nick_G on 21/08/2015 13:33:45:

Don't forget to budget for tooling.

Nick

When I first started (I'm still starting 2+ years on!) someone said "budget 50% for the machine and 50% for the tooling and accessories"

I honestly thought that was mad, "I'll just get what I need" I thought, and to a great extent I did.

So I'll revise that statement for whichever kind sir told me that

"budget 50% for the machine and AT LEAST 50% for the tooling and accessories in the first year"

– I think that's a fair estimation, and I'm still amazed at how much enjoyment I get out of my investment pound for pound despite it costing a lot more than I imagined.

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

I've had a WM250V (inverter model) for several months now and am very happy with it.

Where in the country are you, there may be folk around you that can give you the benefit of their knowledge and machinery experiences.

[Anonymous]

Hi Bob,

Welcome to the forum. I'm not sure I can offer any direct advice, but I am happy to talk machine tools and accessories in general. I'll send you a PM.

Andrew

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Hi and welcome Bob – I can second Graeme's post – the Warco WM25OV is a great Lathe..

Garry

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Welcome to the most satisfying hobby there is Bob.

Ditto what Neil said about VFD power.

As soon as I used my lathe for the first time after fitting one, I soon converted all my other machines to use VFDs and never looked back.

Russ B said it, I having spent at least that, if not more on tools and accessories.

Before you install any machines or tools, please insulate the shed.

Do let us know your whereabouts, as I'm sure some of those local to you would be only too willing to be of assistance.

Geoff – Hmm cheese or Mackerel on toast later, decisions decisions

[john kennedy 1Participant @johnkennedy1]

He says he lives in Bedford

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Welcome Bob

I've had my WM250V-F ( pre-inverter days ) & my WM 16 mill since 2012 & cannot complain with either machine; I wished I'd got the WM18 as I wanted the bigger MT to suit tooling I already had but budgetary reasons precluded taking that route, 'ce la vie' as the saying goes. I certainly would consider the Warco range as a good start up system, their aftersales service is very good too. If you're anywhere near their showroom it would be well worth a visit to get a 'hands on' feel, no other connection other than a satisfied customer.

Do remember to allow a good margin for tooling, FWIW I would suggest you invest in the Eccentric Eng. diamond tool holder as this will cover 95% of your cutting tool requirements, it does majority of mine, & easier to sharpen ( usual disclaimer  ), then you've got to think about drill chuck/s, live centres, DTI's, decent set of drills, metric & imperial etc. etc, then gradually build up from there, I'm still getting this & that now 3 years on, dependant on what my pension, & finance director ( SWMBO &nbsp will allow…  

George.

Edited By mechman48 on 21/08/2015 16:27:26

[BOB BLACKSHAW 1Participant @bobblackshaw1]

Hello, thanks for your replies on this matter, it seems that the lathe needed wll weigh around 180kg that is the problem I will have is getting a lathe of this weight in position.

The warco vm240 weighs 110kg which more manageable, are they worth considering.

As has been said by OuBallie I need to insulate the shed first.

Many thanks Bob

[its-smeeParticipant @its-smee]

I started off with a clarke 300M lathe and small mill but you soon out grow them once you learn to use them. I now have a Warco WM-250V-F lathe and WM16 mill. But I did end up buying an "engine lift" to help put them in lace.

john w

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Have you considered laying another floor on top of the existing base, possibly putting in extra battens between your floor joists & infill with gravel, possibly use 3/4" OSB, MDF, even decking boards would suffice to take the extra weight if you can before setting up, as with OuBallie, certainly insulate your roof & walls with Celotex or Kingspan insulation boards, inc. your door, not forgetting plastic membrane on the outer side… ( inner side ) My garage conversion has 25mm Celotex panels, foil backed both sides plus a 25mm air gap which does away with the plastic membrane need, according to the builder , then covered with 12mm OSB, I've also plaster boarded the roof space & covered with 'space blanket', so far I've not had any sign of rust appearing anywhere. I'm sure other members will tell you of their insulation methods…ea. to their own .

George.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Posted by its-smee on 21/08/2015 16:44:35:

I started off with a clarke 300M lathe and small mill but you soon out grow them once you learn to use them. I now have a Warco WM-250V-F lathe and WM16 mill. But I did end up buying an "engine lift" to help put them in lace.

john w

Same here tho' started with the Clarke 500c combined mill & lathe; my engine lift certainly helped but Bob may not have the room to manoeuvre about in his shed… so a couple of rugby playing heavyweight pals would certainly help.

George.

[BOB BLACKSHAW 1Participant @bobblackshaw1]

Hello

This has started me reminiscing, I worked for Adroit Tools in Luton in the 70s and to do fine limit small sheet metal components with a tolerance of + – .15mm or 0006 inch we used the fly press with in shop tooling that used Promecam top tools and beds, Pierce All punch and dies. shop made guillotine. All small jobs of tight tolerance were done on the fly press using slip gauges rather than the main machines.

This is another item in the shed I would love to have, but again its how to get it in there owing to the weight, is the fly press used by other engineers in the work shops as they can do any small job with tight tolerance with home made tooling.

Bob

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

Hi Bob.

I don't know your situati​on, e.g. access to your workshop etc.

We have all compromised on things in the past and often live to regret it.

If you are going to spend the money, spend it once.
Get the right tool the first time (be it a twist drill for £1 or a lathe at £1500)
I use Dormer Driils. They cost more but last really well and stay sharp. I have several other drill sets bought at various times and they all sit dusty on the shelf now.

Your machine can be moved safely by 4 good men and some ingenuity.
Unpack your machine where they deliver it. Take as much weight out of it as you can.
Use Straps to carry the machine to the workshop. Rollers are another great way to move things (Broom Handles etc.)

Getting it on to your Bench is usually the toughest part. Lift it a bit at a time if you can. Once you can collectively pick it up just do it.

The final and most important part of this job is the last bit. It usually involves a short trip to the Pub !

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Go along to the Bedford Model Engineering Society. They won't bite. There is also Luton Model boat club that includes some model engineers, Milton Keynes has a club too.

Clubs are a good source of contacts for bargains on tools and machines. They also have people to help move heavy machines up to a couple of tons.

Do not spend any money on tooling. None. Not at all. You can always buy that later. You must commit all your budget to the lathe first or you will have to compromise. and you can't just add two inches to the spindle while you can get tools a little at a time.

Look at your shed roof. If it is a standard garden shed the felt is cheepo crap that only lasts a couple of years. You cannot risk a leak so upgrade it with proper roof felt at least, or corrugated iron if possible. 8×5 is very small. My storage shed is 8×6. Look to the height too as it might need raising up on a stub wall. I hurridly popped my storeage shed onto 4x4s from a neighbour but have some breeze blocks for its next growth spurt..

If buying new try not to be suckered into an overpriced sheet metal stand. You can probably make far better yourself for half the price.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

If you can hang on for 3 weeks The St Albans & District Model Engineering show is on 26/27 September and last year had 2 lathes for sale. (ok one was an Adept) plus bargain tools and free advice.

and cakes.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> Do not spend any money on tooling. None. Not at all. You can always buy that later. You must commit all your budget to the lathe first or you will have to compromise.

> If you can hang on for 3 weeks The St Albans & District Model Engineering show is on 26/27 September and last year had 2 lathes for sale. (ok one was an Adept)

I knew we were seeing adept inflation but…

Neil

[Author]

Posts