New pound coin

[Gary WoodingParticipant @garywooding25363]

I understand that the physical properties of the new £1 coin are different to the old one. How much is it going to cost the country (ie, all of us) to convert all the affected vending machines etc?

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Does it actually cost anything when more work is created? Money is something of an illusion. The economy is more about the amount of activity that is going on.

regards Martin

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Posted by John Flack on 27/03/2017 14:13:03:

V8 eng……..should have gone to Dolland & Aitchison Ltd?????

Apologies (again) for those who find it incomprehensible. I promise NO more.

HaHa. Yes perhaps I should have said accessing!

I will say no more on the subject either now!

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 27/03/2017 15:10:34:

Does it actually cost anything when more work is created? Money is something of an illusion. The economy is more about the amount of activity that is going on.

regards Martin

It's what I'd call an illusion when it's created from nowhere for the purpose of making a 'bank loan'.

Page 1 of this Bank of England document has info on 'making money' (or 'counterfeiting', when not done by a bank).

Martin.

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

I note the new coin is twelve sided ( or 14 if we include “faces”).

Now I note the twenty and fifty pence coins are what are known as constant radius…ie the one vertex is the center of the other side which in itself is a segment of a circle not a flat…
All this so you can have coins with flats that can roll…down coin acceptors thought’s.

So how will a EVEN number of sides work?
( An aside..I suggested to the chap at my bank …well I guess they a have thought that one out…”I wouldn’t assume that” je said

[vintagengineerParticipant @vintagengineer]

Beating machines is relatively simple, Get the size and weight right and most machines will take them.

[Cyril BonnettParticipant @cyrilbonnett24790]

Be easier to file to shape won't they.

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Just an aside,

I visited the new Royal Mint Museum at Llantrisant last October and a great day out had.

The new £1 coins were in production. For a small charge I minted my own 2016 'old' £1 coin… all those in circulation are 2015 and before.

The details of the new £1 coin were explained.

The Beatrix Potter 50p coins were of great interest, and how they were designed.

I can thoroughly recommend a visit to the Llantrisant Royal Mint.

I have managed to find from coins in circulation 3 sets of Beatrix Potter 50p coins. The Squirrel Nutkin 50p pieces are rather hard to find.

Cheers,

Julian

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by julian atkins on 28/03/2017 00:44:52:

Just an aside,

I visited the new Royal Mint Museum at Llantrisant last October …

The details of the new £1 coin were explained.

.

Except, presumably, the details of the iSIS security feature.

This is the most detailed description I have found so far

https://web.archive.org/web/20140325214810/http://www.currency-news.com/best-new-coin-innovation-2013-finalist-02

… which isn't really very helpful to the back-yard counterfeiter.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: and here is the glossy advertising video from the Royal Mint:

https://vimeo.com/97811876

Edit: see also

http://www.coinworld.com/news/world-coins/2014/04/Visiting-the-Royal-Mint-New-ISIS-technology.all.html#

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 28/03/2017 07:16:11

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by jason udall on 27/03/2017 18:42:36:
I note the new coin is twelve sided ( or 14 if we include "faces&quot.

Now I note the twenty and fifty pence coins are what are known as constant radius…ie the one vertex is the center of the other side which in itself is a segment of a circle not a flat…
All this so you can have coins with flats that can roll…down coin acceptors thought's.

So how will a EVEN number of sides work?
( An aside..I suggested to the chap at my bank …well I guess they a have thought that one out…"I wouldn't assume that" je said

.

This may be of interest: **LINK**

http://mei.org.uk/files/pdf/mm/april-2014.pdf

MichaelG.

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

Surely it was not beyond the wit of science and engineering to create a bi-metallic, forge-resistant circular coin the same size and weight as the old £1 coin, thereby saving the millions being spent on modifying every coin-operated machine in the UK? There is only one set of people who will be picking up this bill, and thats us – the customers.

[egaParticipant @ega]

I do remember the Mars bar slicing but didn't realize it was official policy – see this advert from a 1942 Pelican:

BTW, that was in the days when "honest-to-goodness tobacco" was also promoted.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by Mike on 28/03/2017 09:28:10:

Surely it was not beyond the wit of science and engineering to create a bi-metallic, forge-resistant circular coin the same size and weight as the old £1 coin, thereby saving the millions being spent on modifying every coin-operated machine in the UK? There is only one set of people who will be picking up this bill, and thats us – the customers.

Depends if the problem is forged coins presented as cash or forged coins presented to coin operated machines. If you design the coins with the same properties as the old ones then the old fake coins still work in the machines. This is just an observation, I have no idea what the motivations are in fact.

regards Martin

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

Back in the 60s, there was a rash of parking meters in most towns. the standard coin requirement was 6d. Part of the standard kit on S&R helicopters was a set of 'punch and die' bolt croppers (to cut through the ejector seat peripherals, if necessary). It appears that if a halfpenny coin was inserted in said cropper and handles squeezed, the result was a disc which was quite acceptable to parking meters!!

Although I was on S&R at the time, this is, of course, secondhand info!

rgds

Bill

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

German fag machines were the best, 2shilling coin (I think) passed for a Mark coin. Got a packet of ciggys and change !

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Unfortunately, the Appendices are not included in this copy … but this document is worth reading:

**LINK**

http://financialservices.house.gov/uploadedfiles/hhrg-113-ba19-wstate-amills-20140611.pdf

MichaelG.

[John FlackParticipant @johnflack59079]

It is a feature of UK and some European countries that a change in coinage results in the old system being withdrawn over a period. This is not so in the USA where old coinage continues to be used. Technically a 20dollar gold piece can be exchanged for goods worth 20 dollars, but in reality the bullion value vastly exceeds the face value. There are, I believe, strict regulations regarding exports of coinage from the USA.

I was reading a week or so ago in the financial section of the press that an unemployed guy twigged on to the fact that some of the half dollars had a silver content of greater than face value so he started drawing his "benefits" in half dollars and sorting them out. This is not as difficult as it seems as when viewed in an edge on the silver coins have a different hue. This operation got so large that he was required to open a business account at the multitude of banks that he was using. The amount being credited bought him to the notice of the Revenue authorities who could not find any evidence of malpractice. The banks involved got fed up with counting half dollars which were not of great interest to the general public, so they started to order in bags from the federal reserve, these provided an even greater source of silver half dollars. He is now some form of millionaire and now is looking at nickels whose nickel value is greater than face value

[larry PhelanParticipant @larryphelan54019]

I well remember ration books and Mars bars. I remember when the first oranges and bananas appeared here,after the war. We kids did not know what the hell they were,plenty of apples OK but not much else.When I see the way good food is wasted and thrown out these days,it makes me sick. How much food did your Mother throw out because it was "One day past it,s sell by date?" Not too much,I,d say. The amount of food I see kids wasting,is something else,there are times when I have to bite my tongue.Hope they never see the other side. We,ve been there,done that,bought the tee shirt. When I remarked to one of the staff in Lidl,s recently about the amount of stuff they were slinging out,I was told "We must get rid of it,we cannot sell it,it is gone past it,s date" I thought to myself "Big deal,so am I,but I,d still eat it " I said to him "What would Mein Furter have to say about that?" He is still looking at me,I dont think he knew what the hell I was talking about.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by John Flack on 28/03/2017 13:16:39:

He is now some form of millionaire and now is looking at nickels whose nickel value is greater than face value

If the Sates have some kind of Law making it illegal to destroy coinage, does that not mean that any theoretical metal value is unavailable to him as he cannot convert the coins to metal without breaking the law. I guess he could perhaps wait until the Feds made the coins no longer legal tender but then he is sitting on money he cannot spend without forfeiting future wealth. It the mean time what the hell is he living on? Sounds a tall tale to me.

regards Martin

[ZebethyalParticipant @zebethyal]

If the Sates have some kind of Law making it illegal to destroy coinage, does that not mean that any theoretical metal value is unavailable to him as he cannot convert the coins to metal without breaking the law.

I am not sure if they do, or not, I haven't checked, but I would think this law would be broken every time someone presses a 'penny' (1c piece) into a new shape in one of those machines in most amusement parks.

Sure it is still a coin of some sort, but it is no longer legal tender as both sides have been pressed with a new image and its shape has distorted into a long oval.

[John FlackParticipant @johnflack59079]

Martin kite……..I reported only what I read. Having recently purchased a Phili. minted Wild West dollar dated 1900 US 900 grade silver for £90 it was of interest to me as a coin collector.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Hi John

I'm sure you reported what you read. No reflection on you, I just don't really see how he makes it work that's all. Not everything that is written is accurate. This maybe is, but as it stands it does have some questionable points.

regards Martin

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Zebethyal on 28/03/2017 14:19:33:

If the Sates have some kind of Law making it illegal to destroy coinage, does that not mean that any theoretical metal value is unavailable to him as he cannot convert the coins to metal without breaking the law.

I am not sure if they do, or not, I haven't checked, but I would think this law would be broken every time someone presses a 'penny' (1c piece) into a new shape in one of those machines in most amusement parks.

Sure it is still a coin of some sort, but it is no longer legal tender as both sides have been pressed with a new image and its shape has distorted into a long oval.

I looked into this a while ago and found that almost all administrations own their coins outright; coins are only loaned to you as a token of exchange. You own the value represented by the coin (or note) not the coin itself. As you don't own it, you don't have permission to damage it.

Presumably back in days when the token had an intrinsic value, the law stopped people causing a currency crisis by melting down gold, silver, or copper whenever the metal happened to be more valuable than the denomination of the coin. There have been occasions when gold coinage was recalled and replaced by something cheaper like paper. Hoarding gold has been a crime with stiff punishments in many countries at one time or another. There was a big problem with US Silver Dollars in the 19th century when the value of silver crashed.

These days coinage has such low intrinsic value no-one cares much what you do with it. Apart from the value issue, I couldn't confirm that it's high treason in the UK to deface the image of the monarch. Another illusion shattered!

Dave

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> How much food did your Mother throw out because it was "One day past it,s sell by date?" Not too much,I,d say.

I have little truck with sell by dates. As far as I can tell the date on Stilton means 'wait another month before eating'.

Today I intercepted a bag of nuts on the way to the bin, sell by date 6th June 2017. Apparently the gold covered chocolate coins (worth more than face value then!) were mouldy.

Sceptical, I examined them closely. The chocolate inside appeared OK but ether was indeed the appearance of mould or corrosion around the joint in the foil coverings.

I broke open a walnut, the inside was dusty with spores and there were two small bright yellow lumps of 'something' inside.

Thoughts of aflatoxins and on its way direct to the bin!

Neil

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by larry Phelan on 28/03/2017 13:32:01:

How much food did your Mother throw out because it was "One day past it,s sell by date?" Not too much,I,d say.

…

Almost none. But then she always took a lot of care not to buy anything overripe, stale or rotten in the first place.

Are you saying you're happy to pay good money for food known to be past it's sell by date; that having paid for it you won't sue if it gives you the galloping trots, and that you will pay for any treatment the NHS is obliged to give you?

I do agree that food is wasted because sellers are pessimistic about how long food stays in good condition. But they have to be. They don't know how long it will be in storage before it's sold or how well it will be looked after in transit. If they get it wrong they're in big trouble – food poisoning is no joke.

Dave

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