New myford

[Charles LamontParticipant @charleslamont71117]

Could Stephen the OP please clarify, do you have a lathe already? Jason has inferred that you do but, unless I have missed it, you have not actually said so anywhere in this thread.

I bought a brand new Super 7 in 1973. (Just to rub it in, with a stand, and threaded body 4 jaw and 3-jaw Griptru chucks, but no gearbox, it came to £277.) It has since been fitted with a 3-phase motor and VFD. I am hoping it might get another 15 years or so out of me before I am knackered.

There are very nice second hand machines out there for much less than a new one, and it is not hard to discern good from bad.

[Charles Lamont]

On Charles Lamont Said:

Could Stephen the OP please clarify, do you have a lathe already? Jason has inferred that you do but, unless I have missed it, you have not actually said so anywhere in this thread.

I bought a brand new Super 7 in 1973. (Just to rub it in, with a stand, and threaded body 4 jaw and 3-jaw Griptru chucks, but no gearbox, it came to £277.) It has since been fitted with a 3-phase motor and VFD. I am hoping it might get another 15 years or so out of me before I am knackered.

There are very nice second hand machines out there for much less than a new one, and it is not hard to discern good from bad.

I just looked at his previous posts.  In November 2023 he apparently had myford super 7?

[Neil Lickfold]

On Neil Lickfold Said:

It depends what you want to make and how accurate the roundness of the final items you are wanting to make. Even for your 8k, there won’t be an eastern machine with a spindle that will produce as round of a part as the Myford S7 or the newer version of it. I agree that if you get one, to get the VFD and 3phase motor. You won’t regret the variable speed convenience.

The OP has indicated that he wants to make stationary engines. From my experiance of using the suggested far eastern machines then they will be more than capable of doing that sort of work. Also IC engines and hot air engines both where close fits are needed. Over 50 examples that a far eastern machine can cut the mustard for that particular use.

Just like any other hobby owning the top of the range kit is what some people like whether it is that latest carbon fibre bike frame, set of golf clubs, etc but at the end of the day a lot is down to the users ability and at least with a far eastern machine you have the excuse of blaming the machine😥. This is why I asked why the wish to change and suggested using the existing lathe for a while as if the OP is not getting the results he wants it may simply be the need to gain some experience rather than hope a “better” machine will solve his problems.

Yes Old posts suggest he has a Myford (with problems?) and was intending to buy a mill. One of those problems was the Myford not turning parallel if a new one were not set up right that too could suffer the same problem, again user related not the machines fault. This also brings us to knowing a dog from a nice machine and why I asked. If the existing one was a nice example then why the need to change?

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Just two points to note. I am surprised that a beginner would consider spending that much money on a lathe !

Regarding Mr Sheen, now that,s something I never thought of !

I,m sure my crappy machine would really appreciate it, since the most it ever gets is a quick clean down after use, along with a squirt of oil

True what my Granny said, “Yis learn something new every day ”

I say, leave the man to it, it,s his choice.

[derek hall 1Participant @derekhall1]

“I caught him polishing it with Mr Sheen once, now thats love!”…….

Ok I have an imperial circa 1963 super 7 with gearbox, I bought it second hand in the mid 1980’s. It does everything I need to do, making tools, repairing and making clocks, stationary engines for example…

However would I polish it?….of course not it’s a machine tool. I see lots adverts for lathes with comments describing the paint finish as if it were a car. Once you have machined some steel and brushed away the swarf the paint is scratched!

Would i buy a Chinese lathe? Not sure, I did some work on a newish large Warco recently and it was a right mangle of a lathe, backlash everywhere and it was only a couple of years old and rarely used. I would want to see lots of different models in the flesh before i parted with my hard earned cash. However no way would i pay for a new Myford super 7, especially at 8k.

But it depends what the OP wants to do with it….maybe just polish the thing and admire the paintwork…

[Charles LamontParticipant @charleslamont71117]

To summarise, we seem to be advising against “all the gear but no idea”. I hope that is not too unkind.

I wonder if we can help sort out whatever may be wrong with the existing machine? Thoroughly learning ones way round the machine, how to take it to bits and put it together again, how to adjust it, how to solve problems, where the shortcomings are, TLC in short, is all just as useful as learning how to make stuff with it.

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

“Accessories were important back when the Myford ML7 hit the streets because a lathe was the only power tool most people had.   Today milling machines and other power tools are much more common, and they do many tasks better than lathe accessories.   Having bought a mill, I’ve spent very little on extras for my Far Eastern lathe.”

All of that is perfectly true. The price of far-eastern products has facilitated amateur workshops that are for more comprehensively equipped than those of our forebears who, in a lot of cases, had to build their own milling machines and grinders etc., hence the Dore-Westbury and Quorn et. al. But we all have to start somewhere and younger enthusiasts may still not have the financial wherewithal to purchase anything more than a lathe in the first instance. When my ML7R (£525 in 1979) was delivered it was totally useless, no motor, no switchgear, no chuck even; all had to be purchased as ‘extras’ as was the British way of pricing products in those days. My ‘drilling machine’, perforce, was a B&D D500 in the drill stand. Pressing the lathe to do many things became a necessity, hence the gradual acquisition of accessories and attachments. Maybe beginners today have more disposable income available for their leisure activities, I just don’t know but that’s how I had to start out and I look at the comprehensive kit and controls that appear to accompany all far-eastern machines with amazement at what you get for your money.

[Charles Lamont]

On Charles Lamont Said:

To summarise, we seem to be advising against “all the gear but no idea”. I hope that is not too unkind.

I wonder if we can help sort out whatever may be wrong with the existing machine? Thoroughly learning ones way round the machine, how to take it to bits and put it together again, how to adjust it, how to solve problems, where the shortcomings are, TLC in short, is all just as useful as learning how to make stuff with it.

Hence a bit of my questioning Charles.

Does the OP feel able to sort out issues on an older machine, if not could that be the reason for wanting a new one. We have to assume that new comers to the hoby may not have an engineering background much like myself.

Does he just want to be making models and not wanting to spend time sorting out problems with the older machine, again a reason for wanting to start afresh.

Is the old machine not giving the results that a new one might such as poor finish? Could just as much be down to a poorly ground tool and/or not at the right height in which case whether it’s a new Myford or an old Minilathe the problem is not with the machine.

It’s a bit like accessories some here enjoy the making of tooling or restoring machines almost to the extent that it is a hobby in itself, others just want a tool that will work out the box and allow them to use it for what they actually want to do.

I’d also be interested to hear how a new RDG Myford compares to a new Beaston one? Are they to the same quality or have things changed better or worse?

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

“To summarise, we seem to be advising against “all the gear but no idea”. I hope that is not too unkind.”

Not too unkind in my case, it sums me up perfectly, LOL!

[Dave WoottonParticipant @davewootton]

Bet the poor OP is now totally confused and wishes he never asked!

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

I started out with a used ML7, but eventually beacame ware of its limitations, FOR MY USE, (2 MT spindle bore, being one, lack of rigidity when using a Vertical Slide, or a Rodney milling attachment) – Maybe that was me being heavy handed?

With retirement approaching, considered the new Super 7 Sigma with 4MT spindle. With 3 and 4 chucks, steadies,, gearbox that was going to set me back £8K+ (in 2003) and still no power cross feed.

In the event, I bought an Engineers ToolRoom BL12 – 24, (A dual dialled lookalike to the Warco BH600 or Chester Craftsman). With 5MT spindle, and 5-3MT sleeve, VFD fitted, delivered and installed, it cost a quarter of what the Myford was quoted, and had PCF, and all the extras.

Having had it since September 2003, the only problem was noisy tunbler reverse gears, (Fixed). It has been used for all sorts of work, including cutting Imperial as well as Metric threads.

Have just adapted a Vertical Slide for a SC6 to it.  As with all Vertical Slides, not as rigid a my elderly Warco Economy Mill/Drill, but has it’s uses, if used gently.

Like every machine, it has limitations.

And Yes, sometimes, I do miss the ML7. It started me out on my machining journey, about which, I have no regrets.

As long as you work within the limitations of your machine, (Whatever it is) you can do amazing work on it. One of the limitations is your ingenuity, or lack of it.

Howard

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

For the original question, I don’t think anyone who has recently bought a new “New Myford” has replied.
Personally I would not buy a new Myford (I have a early ML7, Seig mini-mill from ARC Euro Trade and a Pultra) but that’s personal. If paying for a new S7 does not leave the hobby budget so depleted that you struggle to fund tooling materials etc then that is a clear indication that it is not a good idea. If the budget is OK then it is a technical and personal preference decision. Enough has been said on those.

Robert.

[Mick BaileyParticipant @mickbailey28509]

I’m of the age where a Myford S7 was an envious machine to own and at the time was perhaps the ideal machine for the model engineer. My dream was to buy one brand new and have it for the rest if my days. I did get the chance – Tabwell tools in Bakewell started selling machinery and not too many years after closed down. They were selling up, and a S7 with hardened bed and every extra was on sale for £3000. I think that would have been late 90s.

I didn’t buy it because at the time I was doing more work that would have been on the limit of its capacity. I’ve since regretted the decision and would still like to own a S7 despite all the comparisons with Chinese machines. I suppose for myself its the connection to what I consider to be the golden age of model engineering.

I’ve seen some incredible used machines: When Tony Griffiths sold lathes from his home I visited many times and he often had machines bought brand new by an owner that never used the lathe. There are so many lightly used Myfords from the original factory for sale that It’s not difficult to find one in near-new condition with a large selection of boxed accessories. That wouldn’t  be the same feeling as owning one from new, though.

I’ve no idea what a new Myford is like compared with ones from years ago. Is the quality still the same?

[Mick Bailey]

On Mick Bailey Said:

… There are so many lightly used Myfords from the original factory for sale that It’s not difficult to find one in near-new condition with a large selection of boxed accessories.

Is that true?  Not in my experience.    I do see Myfords and accessories selling for premium prices, including a few paint and putty jobs tarted up by unscrupulous types keen to separate innocents from their money.

I’ve no idea what a new Myford is like compared with ones from years ago. Is the quality still the same?

Myford’s most serious problem by far is their costly to make lathe design requiring a great deal of work in the factory to bring it up to specification.   As labour is expensive, a good chunk of the £8k asking price is likely spent on it.    Though I see no evidence of quality dropping yet – early days – there’s a risk cost-cutting might result in below specification Myfords being sold.    The only way to know is for someone to do a protracted side by side comparison.   Never been done on any hobby tooling I believe.  Our resources limit us to subjective opinion, which can take decades to reach the truth, if ever!

Dave

[Mick BaileyParticipant @mickbailey28509]

I didn’t say they weren’t premium prices, but little-used S7s are about, sometimes at a tolearble  price. My friend bough one for £2200 quite recently from a deceased estate. He thought he was buying just a lathe on makers stand with reversing and gearbox and when he collected it there were quite a few Myford boxes with it. The accessories didn’t appear to have been used and the lathe was in perfect condition.

Even paying upwards of £3000 for the right machine from a private seller is less than half the price of a new one. There’s a lot of scrap and rubbish for sale (especially many of those advertised as refurbished), but it’s a sad fact that a fair number of cherished Myfords are owned by older people and when they die the family has no use for the machine.

 

 

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

[…] Myford’s most serious problem by far is their costly to make lathe design requiring a great deal of work in the factory to bring it up to specification.   As labour is expensive, a good chunk of the £8k asking price is likely spent on it.    Though I see no evidence of quality dropping yet – early days – there’s a risk cost-cutting might result in below specification Myfords being sold.    […]

A question that has troubled me ever since Beeston closed: What exactly does the new incarnation of the Myford factory look like ?

MichaelG.

[Mark EasingwoodParticipant @markeasingwood33578]

Keith Appleton filmed inside the factory, not people working tho’

Myford Video

Mark.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I thought I remembered reading that new machines were being built from stock castings etc from the original company, and of course they refurbish machines to as-new condition I believe.

[Mark Easingwood]

On Mark Easingwood Said:

Keith Appleton filmed inside the factory, not people working tho’

Myford Video

Mark.

It’s an impressive show, Mark … but it somehow lacks the feel of honest toil by proud workers in a proper factory [which is what I remember from the Beeston open-days]

Probably just a sign of the times.

MichaelG.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

To me those factory images are more of an assembly, refurb and “fitting” setup than what would be used to make the parts such as machining the raw castings, making leadscrews etc.

No doubt work is subbed out and done to a specified quality as to whether that is better or worse it is hard to say and may well be driven by price. A modern CNC machining ctr may well be able to do the job more economically and to a better standard than “old Harry” used to at Myfords with dated equipment.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

I have been there, during the week about 10 years ago now. It is what you see – an assembly room no bigger than the RDG operation over the other side of the carpark where lathes get assembled or refurbished to order.

[John Haine]

On John Haine Said:

I thought I remembered reading that new machines were being built from stock castings etc from the original company, and of course they refurbish machines to as-new condition I believe.

<p style=”text-align: left;”>When I last spoke to them they had run out of ex Beeston castings and were getting new ones cast locally</p>

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

That’s positive.

[southernchapParticipant @southernchap]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>I simply do not understand why anyone would rationally want a new ‘Myford’ lathe.</p>
It can’t be ‘all the gear and no idea’ as there have  been, for quite some time, better alternatives available on the used market: the various Boxford models, Harrison M300s or M250s, Colchester Bantams or Chipmasters. All of these would fit in an reasonable size hobby workshop in a garage

If a 6’x6′ shed then, I’d be inclined to look at one of the Warco Chinese benchtops.

The Chinese  benchtop lathes are like modern Ford cars: not refined, but with a lot of useful equipment you wouldn’t get unless you spent a lot more.

I don’t know what car a new ‘Myford’ would be like? I was going to say a Morgan: impractical and a sentimental vanity item, but apparently Morgans are still considered pretty fun and capable in comparison with their rivals these days.

It’s also a bit like buying a modern ‘Mini Cooper’ and claiming you’re now part of some great British heritage. It’s not a real Mini in any sense. If you own a modern Mini, you don’t own a part of heritage. You own a modern car that happens to have the same name and a vaguely similar shape as an old car that used to be made (varying badly or well) in Britain.

Anyway, it feels like kidding oneself. The new Myford now have not got a real sentimental value as there’s no continuity of production (even of the castings).

I rather think that I would sum up a new ‘Myford’ with the aforementioned motif: a misapprehended sentiment based vanity purchase that doesn’t offer functionality that less money spent on something made overseas would provide, nor the sentimental authenticity of owning a real ‘Myford’.

I just don’t get it.

 

 

[Mark Easingwood]

On Mark Easingwood Said:

Keith Appleton filmed inside the factory, not people working tho’

Myford Video here

Mark.

It’s always nice to see domestically produced products instead of Chinese ones.

[Author]

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