New Milling Machine

[Mike WooldridgeParticipant @mikewooldridge98558]

I have started bicycle frame building and need the ability to make up different small bike components such as drop outs, notch the end of tubes etc and am looking first at a mill (will eventually get to lathe as well). I am looking to get something that can manage a reasonable size item and so smaller mills are too small. I have seen a bridgeport or two on gumtree that would be amazing but the truth is getting it to my workshop would a nightmare so I have been looking at the following as a reasonable size / cost that would work for me.

• Warco WM18B
• CNC4You MM32L
• SIEG SX3.5ZP
• Axminster SX3 or 4

I would like the machine to have DRO and also powered with the potential to convert to CNC or start straight off with CNC as most of the things I will make will come from Fusion360 model. I have little experience with any of these machines or resellers and so would really appreciate any input or thoughts. Thanks in advance.

Mike

[Mike WooldridgeParticipant @mikewooldridge98558]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

All will be capable of driving holesaws for notching tubes and milling say 6mm plate/flat bar for dropouts.

If I was looking to convert one to CNC then the 5000rpm spindle speed of the SX3.5 would be a big plus. Most of the CNC work I do is between 4-5000rpm on steel, would like higher for aluminium but it does the job and I'm assuming you are looking at steel frames at the moment.

ARC don't sell the DROs any more but have worked with Machine-DRO to produce tailor made DRO kits to fit the SX3 and 3.5, usually quite a bit cheaper than the cost of a pre-fitted one from say Axminster

The CNC4YOU although it has a slower spindle speed has the advantage of them having done the conversion for you so you won't face the problem of needing a lathe and or mill to convert a basic manual mill.

Edited By JasonB on 12/10/2022 13:17:38

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

I concur with JasonB, I also note the CNC4You MM32L is out of stock, if you want a CNC mill & have the funds I would go for it now but it will be a very steep learning curve IF you are new to machining.

Tony

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Mike

Sounds as if you have some Fusion360 experience. If so I'd advise doing some 3D models of the components you intend to make and putting them onto 3D models of the milling machines. Not forgetting workholding and tool stickout. The latter can seriously bite if you plan on using larger drills on a smaller machine. Even 12 mm / 1/2" diameter can be too long. Buying a machine that turns out too small is a pain (how do I know).

The real world capacity of a milling machine is generally rather less than it might seem to a neophyte. Especially in relation to a lathe. Fundamentally because everything work, workholder, tooling, toolholder et al has to go inside what you see as the workspace so the space you have easily available is rather less than it seems. Its easily overlooked that a decent chunk of area at each end of the table cannot easily be reached by the tool.

Clive

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Having CNC from the start could reduce some of the problems Clive mentions as you can mill a hole or cope the end of a tube using the side of a smaller diameter milling cutter rather than need the height for a drill bit or holesaw/arbor.

Same with coping the top of fork legs to fit a steerer tube, there is no need to stand them vertically or drill with a holesaw held horizontally, simply program the CNC to mill out a "U" shape which could include any rake angle if you are using straight forks. Not only does this eliminate the need for various holesaw sizes to suite different steerer tubes you don't need any fancy jigs to get the rake angles or handing of the two legs.

You can also make use of the X-Y-Z readouts of your CNC operating system rather than having to fit a DRO particularly if you use the wizards for basic milling operations.

Edited By JasonB on 12/10/2022 14:41:40

[Hugh Stewart-Smith 1Participant @hughstewart-smith1]

hello Mike,

if you are anywhere near London, you'd be welcome to drop in on us. We're in East London and we might be able to help you.

Hugh of Amadeal Ltd

[Mike WooldridgeParticipant @mikewooldridge98558]

Posted by Hugh Stewart-Smith 1 on 12/10/2022 14:45:20:

hello Mike,

if you are anywhere near London, you'd be welcome to drop in on us. We're in East London and we might be able to help you.

Hugh of Amadeal Ltd

Hugh,

Apologies I should of added the following to my initial list:

• Amadeal E3 Direct Drive or VM32LV

Unfortunately I am in North Scotland and quite a distance to visit anywhere.

Mike

[Mike WooldridgeParticipant @mikewooldridge98558]

Posted by JasonB on 12/10/2022 13:10:30:

The CNC4YOU although it has a slower spindle speed has the advantage of them having done the conversion for you so you won't face the problem of needing a lathe and or mill to convert a basic manual mill.

There is a big advantage getting something CNC ready as I have nothing to help me convert a machine in my workshop but does anyone have experience with using CNC4YOU?

Mike

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I have bought from them and they were very helpful. Only components rather than complete machine. I've also seen them at exhibitions and spoken to their MD and was favourably impressed. They weren't showing that machine though.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Mike

Big, big +1 for what Jason says about the advantages of a CNC machine when you need to make large holes and do similar jobs that need (relatively) large tooling on a manual mill.

If you don't already have significant manual machine skills I'd advise skipping the idea of starting manual then converting to CNC. Just go direct to CNC.

The manual and CNC mindsets are very different. Much more so if you are proficient in 3D design.

Vastly oversimplifying. In manual machining you think in terms of tool size and build up from 2D plans. In CNC you think in terms of tool paths and 3D. Different world especially when working 12 inches to the foot scale on a smaller machine with restricted workspace.

CNC can squeeze jobs onto a smaller machine that would be essentially impossibly large to do manually. There is a reason why manual home workshop folk like me who work in primarily full size end up with a Bridgeport once we have a workshop big enough to fit it in!

Best to go for a "just works" machine.

Save up for a bit longer if need be.

Even today, when off the shelf "stuff" is far easier to get than in days of yore, converting a machine to CNC and getting it sorted is almost a hobby in itself. Sort of "this year I will build the machine, next year I'll learn to drive it and de-bug it" thing. Two years down the line you can start learning to use it for what you want to do.

Its annoying to discover mid-job that the machine isn't able to do what you think it ought to. With the best will in the world a neophyte is unlikely to be able to fully de-bug a home converted machine. At the affordable end even factory build or professionally marketed conversions have lots of gremlins and gotchas hiding at the outer ends of their working envelopes. Hopefully documented so you don't get bitten by expecting too much of the machine in the wrong places.

Not just us. Even the professionals with a million quids worth of Hemle on the floor complain. As for Haas, which are quite good really, you'd best turn your hearing aid off if you wander into moan space.

Clive

Edited By Clive Foster on 13/10/2022 10:05:54

[LindsayParticipant @lindsaydonaldson93648]

Unfortunately I am in North Scotland and quite a distance to visit anywhere.

Mike

I'm in Angus Mike if you want a look at a SX3.5ZP ?

[Mike WooldridgeParticipant @mikewooldridge98558]

Posted by Lindsay Donaldson on 14/10/2022 11:07:51:

Unfortunately I am in North Scotland and quite a distance to visit anywhere.

Mike

I'm in Angus Mike if you want a look at a SX3.5ZP ?

Lindsay, I might tae you up on that.

Mike

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