New Member – looking for a Myford Super 7 (I think!!)

[flatlineParticipant @flatline]

Good Afternoon!!

I have just joined the forum, as I am a keen but very amateur builder/modifier of the 2-wheeled internal-combustion propelled motor vehicle… I was guided here by various ‘Google’ searches & have discovered a wealth of useful knowledge!!

For some time I have been planning to purchase a lathe… there was a lovely Schaublin 102VM for sale recently, with a wealth of accessories… but I was hesitant as to the potential costs of spares & any accessories I might need… (was I right?)…

I am now considering a Myford Super-7. There seems a wealth of knowledge & help available, and spares/accessories are generally in the much more affordable range…. I have been searching, and it seems everything is available from £250 (probably not for me) through to £3000+ for a beautifully kept machine with plenty of useful accessories.

There are some lovely machines about, I am looking at one from 1955-1958 that looks to have been in private hands but is distinctly a the upper end of the price range, I am making an educated-guess that ‘you get what you pay for’  – but are there any obvious ‘gotcha’s’ that I should look for when inspecting a machine that is (just) older than me??

Many Thanks in advance…

(p.s. based near Bristol, UK)

[egaParticipant @ega]

Welcome to the forum.

Have you discovered lathes.co.uk? The major differences between the Myford and Schaublin are well-documented there.

My pre-power cross feed Seven has serve me well for decades. If, however, I were buying new again as a novice I think I would just get a mini lathe.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I would suggest you look at a Sieg lathe about the same size as the S7 from Arc Eurotrade, they advertise on the forum.  Myfords are nice but overpriced for what you get, and I speak as an owner from new. Members here such as JasonB do some very nice work and could advise which one they have. You get a new machine of good quality and a warranty, and Arc give good support.

[flatline]

On 26 May 2024 at 15:56 flatline Said:

[…]

For some time I have been planning to purchase a lathe… there was a lovely Schaublin 102VM for sale recently, with a wealth of accessories… but I was hesitant as to the potential costs of spares & any accessories I might need… (was I right?)…

[…]

Fabulous machines, but bigger and much heavier than you may first imagine

… I had to ‘ignore’ a nice one years ago 🙁

MichaelG.

[JAParticipant @ja]

I would suggest you contact your local model engineering club. My local club has recently passed on Myford lathes from deceased member’s estates. They will also have knowledge of the work done on the lathe.

JA

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

In my opinion, when buying second-hand, only condition matters.  The brand and lathe model are almost irrelevant unless the machine has been well-maintained, bear in mind a Super 7 could be 70 years old and been thrashed.    Looks are deceiving: a grubby Myford that had a good owner could be in much better condition than a tarted up wreck.  As Myfords attract premium prices, there is a certain trade in tarted up junk.  Quick clean, paint and putty restorations that don’t address problems like severe wear and tear.  All lathes eventually turn into boat-anchors!

Unfortunately there’s no easy way for a beginner to assess the condition of a second-hand lathe, unless of of course the faults are bleeding obvious. The machine needs to put through its paces, all the controls exercised, cutting metal.  Always suspicious when a  machine can’t be demonstrated, although grieving relatives may not know how to.   Cutting metal reveals faults like no other.  Tapers, jambed controls, jumping out of gear, poor finish, noises off, electrical tingles, stalling motors and smoke are all danger signs.   Sadly, an untrained operator is likely to create many similar symptoms by mishandling.

Describing a machine tool as ‘lovely’ is a bad reason for wanting it.    Better I suggest to think in terms of what it’s for.   The Schlaublin mentioned is truly an object of desire, but completely over the top for most hobby purposes.  Won’t be a problem until it needs repairs, at which point expect to pay huge money to get it sorted.   A Super 7 is more practical in an average sized workshop, but likely overpriced compared with a next step up manual lathe like a Boxford.  (Their basic model was about three times more expensive than a well-equipped Super 7.   The advantage of an industrial lathe in good condition is they are very heavily built, reduce the amount of skill needed, and are likely to last forever.)   Three-phase power might be a problem.

I decided to start by buying a Chinese mini-lathe in order to learn from it, and expected to upgrade to second-hand ex-industrial later.  Didn’t turn out that way!  Using a mini-lathe for a year taught me a huge amount about what to look for.   Although rather rough mini-lathes are capable of most modest work, not quite up to Myford size jobs.  Their shortcomings are highly educational, for example the banjo is a pain to set-up, but most seriously I quickly found it was too small for my needs.   The ‘too small’ issue proved that I needed a bigger lathe than a Super 7.  The experience also showed me new Chinese equipment was ‘good enough’ for my needs, helpful because buying new de-risks what happens when a dud machine arrives.   Consumer protection applies, which it doesn’t when buying pre-loved privately.   So now I have a far eastern workshop.

What the lathe is for also covers important issues like Metric vs Imperial.  I do experimental work, for which Metric is a significant advantage.   Others build steam locos and other models from Imperial Plans, or restore old British equipment.  An Imperial workshop suits them far better.   Metric is better today for modern modelling and general purpose engineering, because like it or not the world is slowly moving away from Imperial and US English measure.

The type of work also governs what accessories are needed.   Expect to spend as much on accessories as the lathe itself, so ideal if you can find someone selling the outfit you need as a bundle.  But don’t be surprised to find the previous owner’s accessories include a lot of weird stuff, and many essentials are missing or broken.

How big is your workshop, and what sort of jobs will you do?   This being a hobby, almost anything is allowed.  Some get huge pleasure simply out of collecting and maintaining ‘quality’ tools, and rarely use them in anger.   Others enjoy beating their machines senseless, hacking through metal at Victorian sweat-shop piece-work rates to some narrow purpose like making replica classic car-parts, or churning out Meccano gears.  Others repair stuff for fun or profit, anything from bikes to zithers.    Clocks are different again. Many enjoy making tools.  Though my main focus is experimental, I spend a fair amount of time pootling, mastering various techniques just in case they come in useful.   Some love immaculate workshops, mine is too embarrassing to photograph…

Dave

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Welcome to the Forum Flatline.
You have not given any details of work you want to carry out which makes advice hard but here is my view.
I own a Myford lathe (ML7) and Sieg Mini-Mill. I bought the used Myford for a number of reasons. None of them were really related to the perfomance of the lathe. I did know that a Myford “7” would do what I wanted. My reasons were: Nostalga, a Myford was the first lathe I ever used. Availability, the right one turned up not far away. Condition, An early model but only 3 owners. It was well looked after with some accessories. Price, it was at the lower end of the range, but the seller wanted t to go to a user.
That said it needed some work including a new motor so a 3 phase and VFD was fitted. I like morking on the lathe as much as using it.
Practically I should have bought a new Sieg lathe from ARC Euro Trade. I have been more than happy with the Sieg mill I bought and service I’ve received from them.

A SC4 is close to a S7 in size and is in the middle of the used S7 price range. It has variable speed 1kW motor and cuts both metric and imperial threads. Also the bore thtough the head is larger 20mm rather than 15.
More difficult is the swing. The S7 is 7″ (177mm) over the bed while the SC4 is 210mm (8.26″) BUT the S7 has a gap bed so it can swing narrow items up to 10″ (254mm). This could be important if you want to make or modify things like brake disks.

If you want a lathe to use, rather than fiddle with then a new one may be the better choice. Bear in mind that the apparently similar lathes at lower end of the the price range may need “fettling” to bring to an acceptable standard.

Robert.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

look at a well maintained Myford as an investment rather than a cost, looked after it should hold it’s value. My S7 cost £200 in 1970, second hand, with a bench and some accessories. Lightly used and in good condition value now ? There is a huge range of accessories available ! Not having a Harrison 10 makes me a Myford man ! Noel.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

flatline mentions living in Bristol.   There is a local business mainly selling Myford lathes located in Corsham, about 7 miles east of Bath.  Might be worth a visit to see what he has in the flesh.

I have no experience of the business, or seen it mentioned on the forum before.

Dave

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

Don’t purchase any Myford unless it is fully loaded with 3 and 4 jaw chucks faceplate and catch plate, centres, steadies  drill chuck, change gears and preferably other tooling such as QCTP, milling slide and vice, collets, crank handle etc.

Sure Myford tooling from the usual market places is ubiquitous, but of varying quality and will add up to a high price if  purchased individually.

As all of us old codgers drop off our perches, there is, and will be an increasing glut of these machines, so avoid  pre 1970 machines and only consider the immaculate variety.

Bear in mind Myford owners always think their worn out faithful old dog is worth more than the average, in the same way that most drivers consider their driving to be better than average.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Don’t overlook the Myford ML7. Much cheaper than the Super 7 but will do all the same stuff. Much better value for money and a very capable lathe.

And don’t overlook other good British lathes including Boxford and Raglan, both of which are far superior to a Myford in most ways, yet sell for less because they don’t have the cult following.

All assuming of course that you find a good one. Buying a used lathe is like buying a used car, you really need to know what you are looking at, or take along a friend who knows. As with used cars, a certain percentage for sale are dungers dressed up. Caveat emptor.

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

As Hopper says, other old iron is available, BUT only consider if fully equipped and in immaculate condition. With the less common lathes you will be searching for overpriced hens teeth if you find a fitting or component is required sometime in future.

Myfords are a bit like Singer sewing machines – more were made than people to use them. Also, there remains rudimentary new parts support for them.

The lathe bed is everything, the simple check is to ask owner to adjust gibs to give a comfortable non-play movement in the saddle over 2 to 6 inches from the chuck. Then wind saddle back towards tailstock. If it tightens up when moving backwards, walk away immediately, don’t look back and run like hell as soon as you can. You are dodging a bullet.

[Ches Green UKParticipant @chesgreenuk]

Flatline,

Everything that has been said before, particularly SOD’s input.

I’m retired, have a small workshop and am interested in static steam machines eg https://www.stuartmodels.com/products/set-of-castings/

So my age, space and what I planned to build pushed me towards a small mill and lathe from ARCEuroTrade. Very happy with both after 4 or 5 yrs. Only slight limitation is that the lathe ‘swing’ is 180mm ie it can only make flywheels up to a diameter of 7″, but that isn’t really a big deal for me.

Also being able to source everything from one trusted place (ARC) should not be underestimated. As is the ability to later on buy parts/accessories for the mill/lathe from that same place.

ARC is who I went with after some research…there are other reliable one-stop-shops in the UK but I haven’t bought machines from them so will let others comment.

Ches

[flatlineParticipant @flatline]

Many thanks to everyone who has replied to my introductory post, some great suggestions and advice here… I am somewhat limited for space in my workshop, but am happy to extend my knowledge/search & hopefully find a machine that fits’ with my requirement. Many thanks again 😉

 

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Can only agree with what has been said by S O D and Ches.

The Myford 7 Series is the machine of choice for many. Fantastic work has been done on them.

My first lathe was a ML7, but I found the 2MT spindle limiting, and causing waste of material (Short ends left over), so on retirement I upsized to a Taiwanese 12 x 24 with VFD. But that is just me!

You can do small work on a big lathe, but not so easy the other way round. (I have machined from 6+” diamter to 10BA on it!)

At the time, a new Super 7 Sigma would have set me back four times as much, and not provided PCF, or the VFD.

If the SC4 had been available 20 years ago, I would probably bought that, to get the power cross feed.

Sometimes your choice of machine, apart from space and budget, is determined by what accessories are available for it (And what you anticipate you will want to do on it)

If you did decide on a new machine (or other supplies) I can recommend  (Like many others) Arc EuroTrade. Splendid folk with whom to deal.

My pal and | frequently make the 45 mile each way journey to go over to Syston for stuff, and the enjoyable chat with the folk there. (Not to mentuion the service and advice that they provide)

Howard

[noel shelley]

On noel shelley Said:

look at a well maintained Myford as an investment rather than a cost, looked after it should hold it’s value. …

This is a really good example of thinking ahead, where the correct answer depends on what the owner wants to achieve:

1. Noel, perhaps, is planning for the evil day when he has to down tools.   At that point, he might sell his workshop, and spend the money on a world cruise.   Or the beneficiaries of his Will get the cash, lucky them.
2. I too am planning for the evil day.  I see a different problem!  Selling a workshop is a considerable hassle, with a distinct risk the executor will simply want to settle the estate as soon as possible.  That means getting rid of the workshop; scrapyard, tip, house-clearance, etc.   I decided I don’t want to leave my family fretting about the alleged monetary value of my workshop.   I’ve had my fun, and when I’m gone, they can do what they like with it.   It deliberately doesn’t contain anything that might be considered an investment!

Circumstances matter:  I’d think differently if any of my family or friends were interested in metal-work, but they’re not.

Dave

[Clock polisherParticipant @clockpolisher]

I went down the ML10 route and bought a 1979 Long Bed Speed 10 with two chucks and a lot of peripherals.

It’s only slightly smaller than the 7 series but is more than adequate for my needs.

The weight was a consideration too as I’m limited for space and when stripped down the lathe was just about portable. Carrying the bed through the house and up a loft ladder did make me question my judgement though.

They also tend to be cheaper than a 7 series, not considered as collectible yet presumably.

I got to know the seller first and was very pleased that he was a time-served engineer who had owned and cherished it for years, rather than just a business.

regards,

David

[Clock polisher]

On Clock polisher Said:

I went down the ML10 route…

They also tend to be cheaper than a 7 series, not considered as collectible yet presumably.

…

David

When I first looked into buying a lathe, before marriage, rug-rats and career put a stop to such fripperies, it was an open secret that the ML10 was a good buy because it wasn’t as fully featured as the far more desirable ML7/Super.   On introduction, the ML10 attracted a lot of criticism from Myford aficionados keen to point out what was missing.

Rather unfair some of it, I think.  For example, great concern was expressed that the ML10 bed cannot be re-ground whereas an ML7 bed can be reground 3 times.  It was assumed that all model engineers would use their lathes so much that regrinding was an important consideration!  Not in my world!

Anyway, for a long time ML10s sold for much less than other Myfords, making them excellent value because they are competent machines.  Yes there are limitations, but for many purposes they simply don’t matter.

Not so true today that ML10s are still good value.  Prices have been creeping up.   This century I suspect newcomers seize on the Myford brand-name and ignore the ML10’s actual specification, and pay much more for one than I would.   Up to them – lathes are worth whatever people are prepared to pay for them, whatever I think!

Dave

[egaParticipant @ega]

If I remember aright, Myfords stopped making the 10 some years before they shut up shop. There may be an analogy with the motor industry where it is said that it is harder to make a profit on small cars.

[ega]

On ega Said:

If I remember aright, Myfords stopped making the 10 some years before they shut up shop. There may be an analogy with the motor industry where it is said that it is harder to make a profit on small cars.

I am not sure about the analogy.

Myfords was a private limited company founded by Cecil Moore. It was sold within weeks of his death and obviously had a lot of stock with Home & Workshop still selling bits they bought thirteen years ago. The old company held open days which seemed to be well attanded, at least the two I went to. It did strike me as being slightly paternalistic which may not have been a bad thing but not in keeping with the time.

Returning to the question, the old company did a good business in selling reconditioned lathes. I bought a late 1950s S7 from them over 20 years ago. This practice has been continued by the present firm. It is a sensible option.

JA

[flatlineParticipant @flatline]

I found what I was looking for👍

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Hopefully the mechanicals are as good as the recent paint job. With luck the extension lead allowed you to try it cutting metal which is always a good idea.

[JAParticipant @ja]

It could be my old S7!

It was a good lathe. I put a lock on the top slide (as Geog. H. Thomas).

JA

[flatline]

On flatline Said:

I found what I was looking for👍

Hurrah!   Please let us know how you get on with it.

You probably know this already, but there are a few Myford booby traps!

1.   The Dewhurst switch is an old-fashioned design, not really man enough, or intended, to switch the motor under power.  Doing so consistently gradually destroys the contacts, forcing a replacement.   Purists like to replace with another Dewhurst, because, unlike most modern switches, the Dewhurst matches Myford styling.   Unfortunately, Dewhursts haven’t been made for many years, and are getting hard to find and pricey!   If you have a Dewhurst in good-nick, don’t abuse it!

2. Myfords are fitted with grease nipples. Don’t be fooled!  They are oil points.   Many new Myford owners have been caught out by this, causing damage by blocking the oil-ways with grease so that no lube reaches the ways.  I’d check the oil-ways are free by pumping lots of oil through all the nipples, until it’s seen coming out were it’s needed.

3. I don’t think anyone has found an oil-can suitable for the Myford that doesn’t leak!

4. As the chuck screws on the spindle, it’s not unusual for them to stick.   Most likely in a workshop where the chuck is never changed, and the thing has had many years to jamb good and hard.   Many Myfords have been damaged by by owners attempting to undo a stuck chuck.   If yours is jambed, don’t guess because the obvious answer is unwise!  Instead, ask the forum!

5. Screw-on chucks have another fault, which is coming undone if the lathe is run in reverse.   Only likely to be a problem if following the instructions for metric threading on a Chinese lathe.  Lathes with flange spindles have no problem cutting in either direction, but think twice before reversing a Myford!   Reverse cutting is a useful trick, but far from essential – I don’t think Myford owners are missing much!

Dave

 

[JAParticipant @ja]

Get a copy of the “Myford Series 7 Manual” by Ian Bradley. It is really an expanded version of the little factory booklet although it does not contain the pictorial parts list. It is available from Tee Publishing at a very reasonable price. I think the factory booklet is still available

As for screw on chucks, the comments are used to “beat up” Myford owners, no offense to Dave. I have only ever known one badly stuck chuck which was on a lathe that had not been used for years (belonged to a friend). I remove my chuck frequently (changing to face plate, collet chuck, etc). Always keep the threads clean and well oiled. Also I have never had to run either of the Myfords I have owned in reverse.

Myfords have their failings but owners accept them and keep quiet.

JA

[Author]

Posts