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[Toby JonesParticipant @tobyjones79461]

Hi all,

been following a lot of the forums on here for a while to inform decisions to get home workshop a bit more kitted out. Primarily looking to do larger work but want to start with the fundamentals on smaller machinery so I get to grips with stuff.

Will continue to float around, but any bargain equipment drop me a PM!

kind Regards

[Toby JonesParticipant @tobyjones79461]

Hello! – Engineering Student

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Welcome!

As you probably already know:

What machines you buy will depend on a ) What you want to do. b) space available and c ) budget.

When you have decided (a ) and (b ), (c ) will need to be drip fed over the years as the need / wish for extra equipment comes to light.

So apart from letting yourself in for a lifetime of pleasure, frustration and learning, the almost endless road of decision making extends before you.

Be proud to be an Engineer with practical skills, as well as knowledge. You will be one of the band who produced the world that we have today (infections excepted! )

Howard

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Hello Toby and welcome to this Forum. You may be better to jump straight in with larger equipment ( within reason) because if second hand it is often cheaper to buy an, you can make small things on big machines but it is often difficult to make big things on a small machine.

Brian

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Welcome to the forum

H

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Hi Toby,

Welcome to the mad house!

It helps for people to know your approximate location in order to perhaps help you out/

Regards, Martin

[Toby JonesParticipant @tobyjones79461]

Hi everyone,

Pretty blown away but such quick & friendly responses – its already evident its a great community!

I am down south – nr m25/gatwick.

I am still part the way through my degree, (studying in the midlands) but spend a good 90% of my time outside studying tinkering with bits of car or whatever I can get my hands on. Ive experience building engines/fabricating and have been bitten by the 3d printing bug, to which I am spending most of my lockdown churning out parts! I am on my industrial placement at the moment, and have started to save a bit of wedge to get some tools that I can use throughout my career/ life as an engineer! Ive always really tried to design as much as possible for manufacture, and have loved having a natter with the technicians/shop engineers at uni or the engineers we use at work for precise turned/milled pieces.

I am pretty limited for space, but would certainly like to get some bits and pieces that would hopefully serve me well. (approx. 1 workbench for static tools) Ive got previous for pulling stuff out the skip, so bonus points if its bits/ old equipment that just need a mild rework to get a new lease of life!

Id really appreciate some advice (or direction to the relevant thread if its already been covered in detail) on good, reliable "beginners" machinery – I think predominantly a drill press (think I could squeeze a pillar drill in…) and a bench bandsaw. I would love to have a lathe, but really dont think Ive the space (I suppose space could be made!!) Even better if its second hand!

Keen to know your thoughts on what other equipment you would class as "must have" for a young engineer. – ive the usual – calipers, DTI and a reasonable array of hand tools, but I am sure there is more I can learn about.

Thanks Again

Kind Regards,

Toby

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Being a fully paid up Luddite, and TIGHT, my list would start.

Buy cheap, buy at least twice, for many things.

A cheap Tap broken in a workpiece can be expensive!

But we all have to balance cost against value for money, especially where the tool is likely to be used for only one job. (Odd ball Taps / Dies or gear cutters Don't ask! )

Assuming that you already have a sturdy bench ) a good vice. Costly but worth it. Have seen cast Iron vices broken by using as a press We ALL do it. Record if you can afford it, industrial quality and take a LOT of wearing out!

A 6" Bench grinder (The wheels will almost certainly need dressing to true them to reduce vibration ) Will be invaluable when you want to sharpen drills / grind lathe tools.

Bench Drill press. Cheap ones are barely, if at all, better than a good pistol drill in a matching bench drilling attachment. Was not impressed by a £50 three speed one. That got little use and found a new owner

Buy good quality drills, cheap ones wear out quicker, and may be less accurate than the more expensive makes..

Ditto for Taps and Dies. You are likely to make up quite a variety of types, eventually.

Once you have a lathe, you will never want to be without one! Unless you want to turn tele legs for motor cycles, you may be able to cope quite well with a mini lathe.

They will swing 180 mm and have centre distance of 400 mm. Don't need a lot of bench space, and are extremely useful. Lots of accessories available, when your requirements expand, and moderately priced.

And the change gears allow thread cutting (If you choose so to do instead of using Taps and Dies for sizes up to 12 – 13 mm ) and fine power feeds. Cross feed will need t you to learn how to turn a handwheel slowly and steadily.

Buy from one the normal Model Engineering suppliers, such as Arc EuroTrade, Warco, Chester, Axminster, SPG, etc. In that way you will get service and spares back up if it is needed.

Have to admit to not being a fan of Machine Mart. Never impressed by their back up, but that may have been our local store.

Every machine has its limitations, but it is amazing what can be done by making best use of the features!

You will need measuring equipment. Initially, you could probably cope using a LIDL / ALDI 6"/150 mm digital You can spend a lot more if you wish by buying more professional instruments.vernier, but £10 can be a good starting point.

Eventually you will probably find a need for dial gauges (Plunger and Finger types ) and magnetic stand for them.

Certainly when you fit a 4 jaw indepenent chuck to the lathe. (Holds work that cannot be held accurately in a 3 jaw , or when it needs to be accurately centred )

Hope that all this rambling is of some help

Howard

[Toby JonesParticipant @tobyjones79461]

Hi Howard,

Thats already a wealth of information – much appreciated! I have already learned the hard way with some cheap bits (snapped taps/drillbits wedged into bits engine… or those supposed 5 minute jobs where you end up destroying what you were trying to fix) so certainly resonate with buy once and buy good – more than happy if it takes me a little while to get setup with stuff.. Glad I asked about a drill as Ive been eyeing one on screwfix for a while but suspect its made of cheese… I had certainly overlooked a bench grinder – sounds like a very useful tool!

I am pretty much sold on a lathe.. I just need to throw out enough stuff to make space for it! Interesting to know RE machinemart as I was looking at the clarke metalworker series… Warco arent too far from me so maybe when things open up ill get a chance to have a look! when you mean swing, is that the major diameter it can turn across a given length? if so 180mm sounds plenty.

Bench is currently a work in progress, which ill hopefully finish in the next month and get bolted down proper – is it pretty common to have the mini lathes just sit on a workbench rather than a large bed?

I am sure to be opening a can of worms here with names of "quality" brands – but my initial thoughts are Dormer/Cromwell/Kennedy etc.. any brands which are a big fat avoid??

I have some reasonable measuring kit already, that ive bought over the last couple of years (DTI, Digital Calipers some slips & a nice set of feeler gauges) my xmas gift to myself from machine DRO got lost in the post (mitutoyo setsquare and a rule) but they are on the list too. I do some cowboy stuff with a mightymig and so itll be nice to confirm that yes, that part is indeed welded wonky. The angle grinder appears to be quite a good friend of the mightymig… I wonder why!

Thanks again – ill do some reading tonight and see what else is on the list!

Kind Regards,

Toby

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

You look to be going in the right direction.

Good kit lasts for a lifetime. As an Apprentice I bought a secondhand Rabone Chesterrman vernier from my Chief Instructor. Used it for years until bought a cheap LIDL digital calliper. That has needed more than one strip down and clean. Needs an O ring to keep the battery cover in place between deciding to freeze! Contrast with the vernier! Even made a base and pointer to use as a height gauge while in the Toolroom.

Yes, Swing is the largest diameter that can be turned above the bed. It will be less above the Cross Slide, obviously,

Our American cousins describe their lathes by Swing, so what the English call a 3 1/2 inch lathe (referring to Centre Height ) will be described as a 7 inch lathe.

Some lathes have a Gap bed. My old Myford ML7 allowed me to (JUST ) turn an 11" brake disc in the gap. My present lathe has a removable gap (Not yet needed after 17 years ) which will allow the swing to increase by 50%,

Am good at spending other people's money, so will suggest buying some books. There are lots about but a few will often be used for guidance, memory refreshment or reference.

I still use the Zeus charts from my apprenticeship in 1958, despite having newer versions! The later ones have new information at the expense of details of the older, now less used and non preferred, threads

As I said, a fully paid up Luddite

An angle grinder can make many a weld look good, it does for me!

Howard

[Anonymous]

Welcome to the forum.

Swing is a convenient number for marketing, but not necessarily that useful. As it's measured to the lathe bed unless the work is a tube you might not be able to hold work of that diameter as the chuck jaws will hit the bed. Also be aware that the swing over the cross slide will be smaller, so you will not be able to machine a part of diameter equal to the swing and also of the length between centres. I'd add at least an inch (~25mm) to whatever work diameter you might need to get a swing. Same goes for centre to centre, unless you really do want to machine between centres.

Andrew

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

While I cannot disagree with the advice you have been given I have to admit I have modified it in my own purchases.

I have a mini lathe, the Sieg SC3 from ArcEurotrade and one of their smallest milling machines. These were both purchased from ArcEurotrade and the service I had was great – even when the fault was due to my ignorance! They are just outside Leicester and if that is close to your part of the Midlands could be a useful place to visit when that becomes possible again.

The size of these machines was determined by the space available in my garage with washing machine, tumble drier, bike, camping equipment etc etc.

I had the option of buying ex industrial machinery, but just no space or a small traditional lathe like a Myford, but unfortunately I do not have the experience to inspect or renovate one as necessary, nor the money to buy one with a guarantee from a dealer (up to 8- 10 times the price of a mini lathe)

Regarding the advice against cheap tools – if it breaks or does not do the job fair enough – but there are many that are adequate (I don't say excellent) but which will see me out – and the convenience of having tools there waiting has to be taken into account – for example a set of reasonable drills is not as good as a set of the best – but it is better than no drills at all if you are still saving up. I suppose I still have a cheap set of drills, but those I use have been replaced with better and those I don't use – well if I don't use them they can be as cheap as they like!

IMHO the soundest advice above is the part where you are warned you may need to replace equipment as you come to use it and your needs change.

My miniature workshop does what I want it to, particularly when I also have access to larger machinery at my model engineering society when necessary.

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 23/12/2020 21:22:59

[Toby JonesParticipant @tobyjones79461]

Further useful context and advice – again much appreciated. The more insight I get before driving a purchase or me inevitably blowing something up can only be a good thing!

ArcEuroTrade seems to come up quite frequently, so will have a bit more of a look at what they stock..

Thanks Chaps!

Toby

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