NEW LOOK – Model Engineer & Workshop

[parovozParticipant @parovoz]

Here’s an admission…..

I used to take Model Engineer every fortnight without fail and have ALL my back issues. I refer to them for certain things and often spend half an hour upstairs in the library dipping into some old issues for enjoyment…..

But I gave up on the Model Engineer magazine a good number of years ago, over 20 years!

The main initial reason was that the standard of draughtsmanship went off a cliff when people started producing CAD drawings of very low quality. Yes, I admit I’m a bit ‘old skool’ but CAD is no reason for poor quality drawings, one can produce really excellent drawings with CAD. Also there was a severe lack of good quality construction articles, we had Roy Amesbury and Keith Wilson etc producing excellent work and inspiring us to go that bit further. There were too many almost ‘dumbed down’ articles that were a real turn off.

I picked up an issue of ME recently and was very disappointed in the quality. There were NO construction articles in the issue I read through (in the past there would be generally between 2 and 4 per issue) and there was really nothing to inspire. We have a Club issue that arrives, we have every issue back to 1898, and nowadays I normally scan it in about 30 seconds… It does not hold me.

When I was a kid in school ME to me was the best thing since sliced bread and it inspired me to go and ‘cut metal’.

Now I don’t know what the answer is, and I hear a few interesting comments on who may buy the magazine these days and how we inspire the next generation. I certainly see that the next generation coming into the hobby are doing mainly CAD and are also doing a lot of 3d print etc in their models, we have a number of younger members in that domain, and it’s good. Should ME be supporting that? Possibly?

Then there is a balance of preserving the traditional skills of bench work and manual machining and giving the younger generation access to this physically creative side of the hobby.

The other aspect is the nature of what we build…. In the past steam was king and locomotives topped that pecking order. I’m not sure that is so relevant today either. For rail should we be looking at modern traction and the intricacies of producing highly detailed models in this sphere, as opposed to boxes with batteries that we so often see. How does ME develop the hobby and push the boundaries of what Model Engineers can achieve in a modern manufacturing environment.

We maybe need a blend of ‘old skool’ skills with a modern and progressive outlook that will bring in the new blood and develop the ‘art’ into the next 50 years…. What will that environment look like?

So not a ‘rant’ about how good it was and how bad it is now…. But just a thought on what should ME be going forward, for who, and what is it’s ‘mission’…. is ME purely focusing on the old duffer ( I’m one of them ) with time to kill or showcasing a fascinating STEM hobby for younger people to embrace. I think we probably need a balance of both.

As to the cover shown at the head of this…. From my ‘old duffer’ perspective, this is a ‘pipe and slippers’ mag and not one any of the younger people I know would even pick up…. It just doesn’t look relevant.

 

All the best…..

 

[old foolParticipant @old-fool]

I assume from the above comments this thread was started before the mag. dropped on my welcome mat. I have to admit I was a bit sceptical as I’m not a model engineer. truth be told I’m not much of any sort of engineer! More an enthusiastic amature stabbing about in the dark!

However I needn’t have worried. My interest in engineering stems from years of being involved in “Off road motorsport”, Maintaining and developing vehicles for that. I’ve had a lathe for a long time but when the lockdowns came I decided to try and further my skills. I aquired a book by Harold Hall on basic lathework and tried to learn new skills. So it was nice to see a tribute to someone I knew nothing about.

It also seems useful to see how people solve problems in totally different contexts which I can then apply to my own projects.

Finally. I’ve seen in the past critisim of too many photo’s, to me they are very useful since often I don’t know technical terms for actions and processes the pictures make it clear what’s going on and helps me learn the language.

Can’t judge on one issue, but so far a stay of execution!

Bob

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

The new mag generally works clearly on my iPad (13”) except for print quality in Club News which unfortunately is very poor with almost pale grey skinny lettering.

The new mag appears in my archive but only if I log in from the ME section not from the MEW section.

Apart from those niggles it is a good effort and hopefully will carry on under new ownership.

[alan ord 2Participant @alanord2]

Still not received my copy!! Rang Mortons and was told I should get it in the next few days!!!!!! I used to subscribe to both ME and MEW but cancelled my subscription a few years ago because I was not happy. When this new mag came out I thought I would buy the first one and if I was happy with it I would subscribe for further copies. Well this is not a good start. Told the lady from Mortons I could have waited and gone to WHS this morning and bought a copy today. Told her I was not happy but her response was a waste of my time. Will I now subscribe not sure.

Alan.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

They can only estimate when the mag will be delivered. It has been a howling gale in the South West for 24 hours so if the postie came up my hill today she would deserve a medal let alone getting out  of the van and battling up my path.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Mortons can’t do much about Royal Mail.They are all sent out as one big batch not individually leaving you till last.

I’m still waiting for mine and it is quite irregular as to when it arrives, sometimes before the digital, sometimes the same day or in this case probebly a week later.

[Phill SpowartParticipant @phillspowart84010]

Overall, I’m quite happy with the new magazine. It’s the first one for a long time where I’ve read all of it (I tend to just skim some of the longer instruction series). The mix of modelling and workshop stuff is much better value for money-I didn’t really want to pay for two subscriptions, and have yet another magazine to read every few weeks, so only got ME. I look forward to future issues.

The article on the Isle of Man locos was very enjoyable-something to aspire to/be inspired by, but lighter than a full build series. I suggested previously that some kind of single article, 1-2 page introduction to various designs would be nice, and this felt quite close to that.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

New Look … BUT … Still an identity crisis !

Someone at Mortons surely needs to re-write this:

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MichaelG.

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Ref. __ it’s the footer of this very page

[parovoz]

On parovoz Said:

The main initial reason was that the standard of draughtsmanship went off a cliff when people started producing CAD drawings of very low quality.

Could you be more specific as to what you mean by that?

 

[GreensandsParticipant @greensands]

Reading through the article on the 2-6-0 Class 4 tender engine in the current ME&W I was surprised to see in the opening paragraph the statement that the crossheads had “for obvious reasons” been cast from stainless steel. I would  have expected the crossheads to have been machined from silver steel or even mild steel as shown on the drawings by Don Young for his Black Five, not stainless or am I missing something?

[Greensands]

On Greensands Said:

… I was surprised to see in the opening paragraph the statement that the crossheads had “for obvious reasons” been cast from stainless steel. I would  have expected the crossheads to have been machined from silver steel or even mild steel as shown on the drawings by Don Young for his Black Five, not stainless or am I missing something?

Me too!   The only advantage I can think of is Stainless resists rusting, so is low maintenance shiny.  But stainless tends to  gall, making it essential to white metal it.

OK with white metal except the advice is get it by melting down old toys, most of which these days are plastic! Antique toy soldiers would be good, but I suspect old Dinky Cars are an unsuitable Zinc alloy.   Plumbers solder would be good, but only the old-fashioned Lead type (still available), not the modern Tin version.

I guess the author is old-school with a well-equipped workshop that can cast stainless.   If I were to make his loco, I’d ask the forum for advice, and if no-one knew, I’d substitute silver steel.

Interesting.   I’m reading an LBSC build series published in 1960, very well written, and full of tips.  But it too calls for stuff commonly available decades ago that’s hard to source today, so a modern builder would have to substitute.

Dave

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Why would you choose silver steel? If you want hardened bearing surfaces then case hardened mild steel would be adequate surely

Traditional white metal bearings, more properly called babbit metal, are tin based alloys. Wikepedia has lots of info. I’ve cast them for narrow gauge loco bearings, quite a complicated procedure. You have to tin the surfaces to start with, then heat the component and the white metal to the right temperature before pouring or it all goes pear shaped. Would be a lot easier with modern IR pyrometer, we used special wax crayon called Temple sticks for the component, and dipped pine spills in the melt. When the wood charred it was hot enough, but get it too hot and you’ve spoiled the metal.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

For white metal I would use a dip pyrometer. Noel.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I suspect that Greensands’ question might best be answered by addressing the punctuation of the text !

i.e. Mr Hewson, for obvious reasons, had the items cast … and the fact that they were cast in Stainless Steel is relatively trivial.

MichaelG.

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Edit: __ no connection implied, but this is informative:

https://www.investmentcastchina.com/stainless-steel-vs-other-metals-for-lost-wax-casting/

[duncan webster 1]

On duncan webster 1 Said:

Why would you choose silver steel? If you want hardened bearing surfaces then case hardened mild steel would be adequate surely

I’d go for silver steel because I have the necessary tools and experience, and the part is quite small.  Never had occasion to case harden anything yet, and see it, perhaps wrongly, as best for larger items where it’s cheaper and easier to make them from mild-steel, but a hardened surface is desirable.  A moderniser might consider PTFE.

Traditional white metal bearings, more properly called babbit metal, are tin based alloys. Wikepedia has lots of info.

What is Babbitt Metal? It’s a family of different alloys ranging from ‘mostly Tin’ to ‘mostly Lead’. Wikipedia provides this table:

They all contain Tin, Lead and Antimony.   Antimony increases hardness and slipperiness.  Tinny Babbitts are hardened by adding Copper, whilst the Lead based Babbitts contain Arsenic for the same purpose.

My point is that melted down Dinky Cars and modern Tin plumbing solder aren’t Whitemetals suited to bearings.  Probably better than sliding on plain steel but inferior to a real whitemetal.  In the absence of actual Babbitt Metal, then Lead Plumber’s Solder is a good substitute – it contains Antimony and by sheer good luck the alloy is similar to a high-Lead Babbitt.

As the loads imposed on bearings by Models are relatively low compared with full-size, I suspect our choice of whitemetal isn’t critical.   The heavily loaded bearings in a late Victorian steam loco were expected to last tens of thousands of miles, and did, with careful maintenance!  After about 1850 a lot of scientific research went into improving bearings, to reduce maintenance and friction, and the result saved lots of money!  For professional use, several different Babbitts are available, each tuned to match a particular use-case.  In contrast, model locos are lightly loaded – occasional short trips round a flat track rather than clocking up millions of miles hauling 10000 tons of Iron Ore across the US!   We get away with third-best compromises, because our bearings have a relatively easy life.   Could a big traction engine builder comment?  Their size and weight must stress the bearings, but I assume (engineers never assume!) not much, because they are low-mileage.

IMLEC tests engine efficiency over a few short duration runs, and it’s not unusual for engines to break down attempting that.  Be interesting to start an IMLEC-like endurance trial, in which the winner is the engine that pulls a heavy load over the greatest distance, refuelling and re-watering allowed.   Assuming the valve gear and other parts held up, I’m sure a protracted endurance test would expose DIY bearing deficiencies.    Fortunately, the way we enjoy model locos does not require them to be highly reliable.   The exception might be the electric and ICE units often deployed by clubs to haul the paying public on open days.  These are built with manufactured parts and are much more reliable than steam models.   Have to say though, I’d much rather be pulled by steam – they look good, smell good, and by golly they do me good.  I don’t care if their bearings are made from rotten banana skins!

Dave

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Can we please try and keep this thread to the “Look” of the new mag not specific discussion of content.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Certainly … it looks vulgar

MichaelG.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Unfortunately I tend to agree with Michael about the cover. The magazine seems to be attempting to be all things to all men, so unlikely to please a majority.

I gave up on ME many years ago, I just could not stomach the “20 plus part” series. I doubt if many people actually made the items in these longwinded articles.

I will give the new look magazine the benefit of the doubt for a few issues, but I fear that cancellation is on the horizon.

Andrew.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I don’t know if may build from the current ones now but just about every popular loco running around on club tracks these days would have had a multi part series in ME. Same for Traction Engines, Stationary engines and IC engines in their day. So certainly a lot of people made from these long running build articles.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

It is a bit of a relief to only have one magazine a month to find time to read and I am finding the format with lots of small articles rather nice. Dipping in randomly and limiting myself to one item each session.
I had a thought and checked – the photo captions have worked well with crisp bold type and only a few a little mixed with the background. I was initially going to say the head photo in Workshop Diary spreading over onto a second page was wasteful but on reflection the overall presentation of that article was pleasing on the eye and a relaxing read on a Sunday.

[WearyParticipant @weary]

There is also the ‘regulatory’ issue that a boiler design published in Model Engineer (& Workshop) is considered an ‘accepted and proven’ design by the Federations’ insurers and therefore boiler inspectors.  This can make life a lot easier for model engineers!

Hopefully even a truncated short construction series would publish the boiler design in the future to ocntinue this ‘facility’.

Phil.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Ah goody, we can now all make Luker’s Stainless Steel boilers now😀😀😀

[Michael Gilligan]

On Michael Gilligan Said:

On Graham Titman Said:

This is a page from Model Engineer may 5-18 1923 […]

Really ?

… in colour ??

MichaelG.

I think he meant 2023! I did this for a while after 2020 for some inexplicable reason…signing something like “T Gale 7/4/1920” –  even though my father wasn’t even born until october that year!

 

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

Nothing wrong with a long series if it’s an interesting subject that you want to build, especially if it’s filled with useful detail – I’d rather have the option of ignoring a series I don’t want to read rather than lose the possibility of ever seeing one that inspired me.

[parovozParticipant @parovoz]

Agreed with Diogenes on the long series…. I never built the 5″ De Glehn compound of Roy Amesbury or Keith Wilson’s bulldog, the Grasshopper Skeleton Clock ( Wilding ? ). These were LONG series…. But as a pimply youth they inspired me, I learned a LOT from them. The lack of these kinds of series and articles was the main reason that I gave up on Model Engineer, and never went back to it.

As always the sword is double edged….. and there is no single answer. But my opinion is that ME should not be dumbed down too far…. We ABSOLUTELY need to encourage the beginner and less experienced engineers…. But we also ned to showcase the BEST. The ME should be both Education and Inspiration. And it does not have to be just locomotives.

The final part is….. We also have to encourage those who are really good…. To write the articles.

All the best.

 

 

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