NEW LOOK – Model Engineer & Workshop

[derek hall 1Participant @derekhall1]

I realise that all involved in the ME and MEW amalgamation are very busy, but if you want us to subscribe to the “new” magazine, then please update the link(s) on the website to make it far more clearer than it currently is.

As a lapsed subscriber for both magazines many years ago, when I think about subscribing to the “new” magazine it still seems to suggest that I am about to subscribe to MEW…

Got to say that if anyone does subscribe then access to all the MEW and “some” of the ME does present good value…

As for the front page of the new magazine then first impressions count, especially if you are trying to encourage new readers. Less clutter on the front page, more consistent use of fonts etc, and if market research says loco building is not popular don’t have 2 pics of them on the front cover of the new magazine!

I used to work with industrial equipment that was installed in almost every food processing factory in the world. The operators were relatively unskilled so the user interface had to be clear and unambiguous. Many times we used to have to reign in the software engineers for having put “stuff” on the machine that was unclear or not even needed – there was a definite sense of “showing off” and ” look how clever we are, we can do this!”

Technical publications department were the same.

Regards

Derek

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I also think the ME with the beam engine shown earlier looks a lot better than what is in the first post. Not quite F&C which I also took for a long time but it is a lot less cluttered.

No background behind the engine lets you see the subject.

Main content items three short headings in a decent size font not the whole content crammed into a corner

One main colour trend all be it green ties the whole cover together.

 

I suppose the main market is the hobbyist and that separated it from more trade orientated publications, whether hobby or home is the better word is the question but both cover the main proportion of the readership present and future.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Sorry … Amidst all the clutter, I have only just noticed the [witty ?] self-referential nature of the new cover.

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Perhaps only Mr. O’Hara can tell us whether this was by accident or design.

MichaelG.

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

There are (were?) a number of journals for professional Mechanical Engineers, I don’t think a hobby magazine needs to go anywhere near that territory.

Personally I don’t mind ‘Hobby-‘ or ‘Home-‘, but I’d bet that ‘Home-‘ turns out to be the favourite choice by far just because it carries no judgement of ‘amateur’ status..

Will we ever move on from green..?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Such a pity that the word ‘amateur’ has become so degraded.

🙁

MichaelG.

[Julie Ann]

On Julie Ann Said:

Why hobby engineers; are professional engineers excluded?

Julie

Hi, no disrespect to anyone, but if it had a professional tag, would it exclude amateurs? I think most people don’t really understand the meaning of the word amateur, and link it to people who don’t have a clue as to what they are doing. Amateur simply means non-professional, but of course professional doesn’t necessarily mean you have knowledge above and beyond others, it simply means you do it for a living, albeit, you are more likely to have much more training in your area of work, which is often more diverse in many areas that you won’t find in many home workshops. The word amateurish doesn’t mean you’re stupid, it just means you don’t apply things in a professional manner, or have the same skill set, but this type of magazine would help you find a way to achieve you’re goal. I was an “Engineer” in various forms all my working life, but I have no shame of being a “hobbyist”, which is what this and many other magazines are aimed at, but it doesn’t stop me applying the professional training that I had, to my hobby. I dare say that many of the contributions in this magazine are made by people in a professional position, or have been, but it doesn’t stop those that don’t have a professional background. I do think if it had a more professional tone, it would probably put more people off from buying it, because they may think it’s above what they are able to understand, and I wouldn’t be surprised if there are many who read it just out of interest, and without any intention a of making anything, but it could spark them into starting something in time.

Regard Nick.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Just like the contents the title and what is written on the cover will never suit everyone and has to be a bit of a compromise.

I’ve no engineering background so does that make me an Amateur

I do what I do as a hobby but also take on the odd paid commission so does that now make me a professional or mean I’m in the trade

My workshop is at home but should we exclude those that may have their workshop in a lockup or similar, I know there are a few members here in that situation.

And what is a professional Engineer these days? someone who repairs washing machines or someone with letters after their name?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/amateur

 

It’s simple enough … or at least it was

 

MichaelG.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

MG That Twins… completely bypassed me too! I (now retired|) understand that the new world of work has most professional engineers working at home anyway.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

I agree with Michael and Nick about terms and the degraded common  use of the word Amateur, and in the current context it is the common acceptance of the word that matters. Nobody would view the work of dear Cherry Hill or Jason as Amateur, and in my life I have met a few Professionals who were a long way from competent. I don’t like the word Amateur and I’m not sure about the term Home. A word used for many years by various publications was PRACTICAL, implying COMPETENCE, a way to get a job done NOT Amateur or Professional just a can do frame of mind.

While the hardened fan of ME may well know the running sequence of issue numbers, for mere mortals the absence of the MONTH on the front cover may make finding a particular issue or article difficult. Since the new magazine will be monthly the date is less important but PLEASE put the Month and Year on the front cover !

Lets not let the ship sink while we worry about the meaning of a few words, a patch will do for now, a proper job can be done later.    I for one are looking forward to the new look magazine. Noel.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

HaHa. MEW and ME have just popped through the letterbox. Putting them side by side I prefer the crispness of the text on ME and less cluttered look with only 3 items highlighted on the bottom. Outlined text as per SOD’s version above is harder to read, and on this ME the dark blue behind the text makes it much easier to read.
Just need the issue number visible like on MEW. (this is needed when you have looked up something in the index and are looking for a particular issue from 20 years ago.)

|||| NOTE TO EV|ERYONE the letter you are told to expect from Mortons is in the magazine wrapper – it is not the usual address label only.

[Nicholas Farr]

On Nicholas Farr Said:

I do think if it had a more professional tone, it would probably put more people off from buying it, because they may think it’s above what they are able to understand…

While it is important to cater for beginners the magazine also needs to cater for those with more experience and knowledge. If it doesn’t then the magazine will just repeat itself. A beginner will buy it and learn, but then get bored and move on. Another begineer will buy it and learn….rinse and repeat.

If a beginner doesn’t understand something they have two choices. Either they can whine about it, or they can ask questions and learn. If they do the former they are probably in the wrong hobby.

Julie

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi JasonB, I guess you could class yourself as semi-professional. I think the word engineer is a bit ambiguous these days, as it gets tagged onto many skills, but I was a maintenance and fabrication engineer for the want of a better title, but in the last two employments I had, I was just classed as an engineer, although I did more or less, the same type of work. Now being a professional doesn’t make you highly skilled, or you work necessarily better than an amateur, as I’ve had to work along side a few that do some pretty shoddy work much of their time. One job I always got in my maintenance job, because no one else could be trusted to do it, was to install and or adjust control instruments, which kept the water level in sumps at a constant height. The last department head we had, said he’d get me to train one or two of the others how to do them, so I said OK, I’ll get them the instruction booklet, and show them the section that I read, but he didn’t put forward anyone, and shortly after he got made redundant. and shortly after that, I took voluntary redundancy, so I guess someone had to find the booklet and read it to find the bit I read. Amateurs can make some better things than some professionals, simply because they don’t have a labour cost to pay, or have time targets, and can spend more time on planning, research, detail etc.

Regards Nick.

 

 

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

This cover from 1960 does a good job with two colours and two fonts!

The 1960  ‘Model Engineer’ banner puts the title at the top, important when paper magazines are displayed in a shop.  Though the position of the title is irrelevant in a digital magazine, there’s no value in moving it.   Serif bold font with a staggered black outline for emphasis and a modern 3D look. Works for me, and the 2025 magazine is much the same.

The tag ‘THE MAGAZINE FOR THE MECHANICALLY MINDED’ tells prospective buyers what to expect inside.  ‘Mechanically minded’ is double-edged, meaning either ‘competent with mechanical objects’ or ‘brain runs on narrow rails, unimaginative, with low emotional intelligence’.   Not easy to choose words!

Though in 1960 ME was focussed more on steam models, about half the content is contemporary full-size.   Good article  about Hydrogen Peroxide as a fuel, which is applied chemistry.

The main image is of a newly launched tugboat, i.e. modern, and it’s labelled on the left in a ‘modern look’ san-serif font.   Message is, ‘this magazine does new engineering’.  On the right, a different message.  ‘Rebuilding a Drummond lathe‘ is backward looking, signalled by using a ‘traditional look’ serif font.   Works for me.

The footer is used only for admin: price ONE SHILLING.

By modern standards the 1960 cover is very terse, mostly because doing better was labour intensive and full-colour printing expensive.  (At this time the ME editorial team was about ten.  Grossly inefficient by today’s standards, but most things were done manually. )  Though I like it, the cover might not have enough razzamatazz to stand out in a shop, where ME is one of many plying for trade.

Remember Chuck?  Folk either loved or hated his cartoons.   The example from Issue 3095 is a warning to magazine cover designers:

I guess why Chuck is funny or not says something about how our brains work and no-one is good at everything.  To me, Chuck isn’t basic cartoon humour!  Like Snoopy he addresses deep philosophic truths, and not everyone spots that, especially the ‘mechanically minded’!

🙂

Dave

 

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

And what is a professional Engineer these days? someone who repairs washing machines or someone with letters after their name?

It is interesting that German magazines have been presented as an exemplar. Yet in Germany you are not allowed to act commercially as an engineer without certification and letters after your name. A Ph.D. is also respected. In a technical meeting woe betide you (as I discovered) if you don’t always address someone with a Ph.D. as Herr Doktor.

Julie

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

When I was still staff the senior management seemed to think professionals worked long hours and didn’t get overtime. I offended the big chief when I pointed out that amateurs work for nothing. Perhaps that’s why I was much happier as a contractor, none of the pointless management cobblers, and paid for every hour. Wouldn’t have liked the uncertainty when I was younger and still had a mortgage

[Julie Ann]

On Julie Ann Said:

On Nicholas Farr Said:

I do think if it had a more professional tone, it would probably put more people off from buying it, because they may think it’s above what they are able to understand…

…

If a beginner doesn’t understand something they have two choices. Either they can whine about it, or they can ask questions and learn. If they do the former they are probably in the wrong hobby.

Julie

I see it much the same way, but Model Engineering is a hobby.  Makes a difference.

As an ex-professional engineer in the sense I have a degree level qualification, wide experience, and was paid to do increasingly difficult jobs as a career, I see engineering as a continual improvement process, where skills and techniques are continually improved in pursuit of defined outcomes.  The need is to deliver something new and complicated for a customer with a long list of requirements, to a timescale and budget.  Projects involving many people and skills who have to be organised and kept on track.  Risk management, legal issues, sub-contracts, horrible unforeseen problems, finance, admin, leadership and management.

In the context of a big engineering project, practical skills like knowing how to drive a lathe are almost irrelevant, unless the necessary machinists can’t be recruited!   The issue is how long it takes to train people, not OMG this is impossible, the world is ending because schools don’t teach metalwork!  This type of engineering is more thinking than doing.  Past experience and having grey hair aren’t good enough – skills have to be relevant and up-to-date.  What worked well a decade ago could be wrong today.   Hard for amateurs to succeed in this world: very difficult to do unless the theory is understood.  For many maths is the break point and most professional engineering depends on advanced maths.

In contrast, the hobby emphasises the fun to be had from hands-on, learning on the job, and actually making things.  Many techniques needed to deliver complex projects aren’t relevant in a small workshop because the work is simple.   Model Engineers rarely make anything more complicated than a scaled down steam loco or clock.  We make accessories and mend things rather attempt a computer hard-drive.   Stuff is often made to existing plans, and new challenges like CAD/CAM may be avoided.   An amateur machinist can become as skilled as a professional, but neither are qualified engineers.

Theory and practical skills are both engineering, whether pro or am!  But maybe never the twain shall meet.   Blokes good with spanners tend to believe that they are real engineers, cos they do hand-on, leading them foolishly to belittle the theorists.  Meanwhile, theorists belittle anyone with practical skills because they know modern engineering depends more on theory than practical skills!

My view is engineering is a team game and all skills are important. Nothing to do with intelligence, what we are good at as individuals is about aptitude.  Note teamwork may not apply to Model Engineering because tends to be done by singletons, who may not know anything about engineering in the wider sense.

The division can get tense! Professional engineers annoyed by ignorant practitioners, and amateurs entirely happy with their own performance are upset when flaws and misunderstandings are pointed out.

My advice is engineers should lock up their egos and concentrate on improving.  Reacting positively to criticism is a skill.   Might require taking a heavy dose of theory or being forcibly reminded by an humiliating workshop cock-up that practical competencies are vital too.

I’m here to help with what I know and to learn from others.  Mucho learning for me as it happens – though I have an engineering background, it’s not mechanical.

Dave

 

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

In the rarefied atmosphere of PhD’s I had a little chuckle to myself. One person was declined entry to a particular University as being unsuitable material. That person went on to much, much larger and smaller things.

The Father of Geology was not educated in that field and could not read nor write. A certain errand boy for a bookbinding company went on to be the father of Electricity.

Curiosity is the greatest talent and being able to read is a good requirement. If you can read you can further your knowledge in any particular field, but you will only pursue this field if you are curious, and eager to learn.

After 40+ years in Engineering I am still learning.

Regards

Gray,

Gifted Amateur.

[Graham Meek]

On Graham Meek Said:

In the rarefied atmosphere of PhD’s I had a little chuckle to myself. One person was declined entry to a particular University as being unsuitable material. That person went on to much, much larger and smaller things…

A comforting thought, but glass ceilings are far more common.  This is where a talented person finds their employer will not promote them because they are unqualified.  Many of my friends worked as GPO technicians, better paid than me at first, but with almost no way of progressing.  They couldn’t become managers or senior techies.  They were employed to maintain exchanges, and that was their role forever.  Many of them reached 40 years of age before twigging they would always be underlings, told what to do and when to do it by someone else.

I thought this was unjust and a waste of talent.

Still goes on.   Not having the necessary qualification can completely stuff engineers up.  And even fully-qualified engineers are distrusted at higher levels.  We have the reputation of being far too open and honest.  Apparently we don’t understand customers, man management, business needs, sales, advertising, compromise, or anything other than twirling our screwdrivers!   Another unjust waste of talent.

After 40+ years in Engineering I am still learning.

Me too!

Regards

Gray,

Gifted Amateur.

I’m also an amateur, gifted in some ways, not in others.   Though I enjoy my workshop, I’m clumsy and slow.  I improve with practice, but don’t get enough of it.  My junk-box is enormous…

[Rod RenshawParticipant @rodrenshaw28584]

Wow, lots of likes and dislikes about the details of the draft front cover for the new magazine.

What strikes me, who knows little or nothing about about model locos, is that “Twins reunited”  caption and the 2 locos which seem to me to say “Here is a new magazine created by combining 2 model loco magazines”

So the casual newsagent browser who is a home shop engineer but not a loco fan will just pass the magazine by, thinking it’s not for him or her.

If there is space on the cover for two “things” why not a model loco and a lathe or mill etc. of roughly equal size. And change the caption to “2 great magazines united?” To try to capture the attention of two different browsers?

Details details, but sometimes they matter!

Best wishes for the success of the new venture.

Rod

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

On Graham Meek Said:

In the rarefied atmosphere of PhD’s I had a little chuckle to myself. One person was declined entry to a particular University as being unsuitable material. That person went on to much, much larger and smaller things…

 

That person was not me,

Regards

Gray,

 

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

So when will the new issue’s contents page be on the website?

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Well I’ve just seen the latest issue online from my library via Libby.  It seems to be called Model Engineer’s Workshop….  Err…

[John Haine]

On John Haine Said:

Well I’ve just seen the latest issue online from my library via Libby.  It seems to be called Model Engineer’s Workshop….  Err…

Suggest you read what has been posted on the forum and is also in several subscription links and also in the last issues of both mags in particular when the first ME&W will be published

[John Haine]

On John Haine Said:

So when will the new issue’s contents page be on the website?

Not for a while. They won’t be finalised for nearly two weeks.

 

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