New lathe arrived today : The ongoing saga

[john carruthersParticipant @johncarruthers46255]

>>The lathe is not working at all at this point. I am hoping that the company can come up with a solution tomorrow otherwise it will have to go back.<<

Fuse blown ? there's often a fast blow fuse holder on the control panel.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

The lathe is not on ''an uneven substructure'' but I get the point. I will check to make sure that the nuts are not too tight.

I opened up the case to have a look inside. The micro switch on the door (photo 1) did not seem to be lining up correctly. I made adjustments to this but it did not help. (The magnets are not very powerful in these micro switches.) You can see the other micro switch in photo 2 (black box with two nuts&nbspwhich is controlled by the chuck guard shaft. The shaft is to the left in the photo. I have not attempted to fiddle with this yet. 

What is that thing in photo 3…connecting two loose ends ?

Edited By Brian John on 31/08/2015 13:17:44

Edited By Brian John on 31/08/2015 13:19:43

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

if you mean the white ‘top hat’ with two blue wires – it is a twist on connector (usually these are very stable)- I’d check (a v gentle tug) whether the red wire (ie live connector) from the lead is sitting properly in what seems to be a terminal block (or is it a fuse block?)

ETA the item you state is the microswitch in photo 2 looks very unusual to me to be such but I don’t have a manual in front of me – I’d normally just expect 2 wires to be connected to such a switch

Edited By Frances IoM on 31/08/2015 13:28:51

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Frances IoM on 31/08/2015 13:22:03:

… the item you state is the microswitch in photo 2 looks very unusual to me to be such but I don't have a manual in front of me – I'd normally just expect 2 wires to be connected to such a switch

.

It looks rather like a Magnetic ReedSwitch, doesn't it ?

MichaelG.

…

Reminder: For the benefit of those following Brian's adventures with this lathe

… here is the user manual

Edit: The not-very-informative Wiring Diagram is at 8.9

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 31/08/2015 14:15:56

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

Not to me – a reed switch (at least from my 40+ yrs in electronics/telecomns etc is a linear glass envelope containingg 2 leaves that make contact under an applied magnetc field – this appears to be some form of rotary switch presumeably other side is the arm supporting the guard – the two positions reflect up or down of guard and I guess the signal wires (blue + yellow) control the motor + possible breaking of drive current + ?brakeing of chuck

I’m reluctant to make any further suggestions re using a meter on live wires not knowing the background + technical experience of the owner)

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

I will not be touching any live wires I was somewhat reluctant to even open this up to have a look. It was the lathe company who suggested I do so to check the micro switches.

Photo 2 is not good but it is the best I can do now to show the micro switch on the chuck guard. I may take the back off the lathe tomorrow and this will let me get closer. To do what, I have no idea ?

Edited By Brian John on 31/08/2015 14:57:19

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

OK I'll ask the obvious – has the emergency stop switch been pushed (maybe by accident). You reset that by twisting the red knob which will then pop-up slightly resetting the contacts inside allowing current to flow. Very obvious when you know what to look for but can be bafflling if you're new to the game – and just by looking at the knob not always clear that it is depressed.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Brian John on 31/08/2015 13:12:08:

I opened up the case to have a look inside. The micro switch on the door (photo 1) did not seem to be lining up correctly. I made adjustments to this but it did not help. (The magnets are not very powerful in these micro switches.)

.

Frances,

I think we may be at cross-purposes … This ^^^ is the switch I had in mind.

MichaelG.

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

Must admit I wonder if Keith’s suggestion (obvious to any who use machinery with such buttons) might well be the answer – otherwise
I assume there is no pilot light on the lathe control housing (can’t see one indicated in parts list) – thus assuming no bang/smoke occured when re-switched on the obvious check points are
0: is the mains plug fully home in the mains outlet (its 40 yrs since I was in Aus with its own angled connectors and can’t recall if their plugs are non-fused) – also I presume by plugging in another appliance you have checked the mains outlet
1: is the belt cover fully home (easily forgotten)
2: is the chuck guard reseated properly
3: is the 10A fuse in power supply intact (tho if no bang etc then why would it blow
4: some other connection to control board has become dislodged due to movement of lathe

must admit looks very pretty but you may well be right best suited to machining plastic + Aluminium – though i/p power of 450W would suggest a 250W motor at least but MT1 tapers will somewhat restrict options + size of drill chucks, addons such as die holders etc.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

I have released the emergency stop button many times.

The belt cover is fully home ; it is held in place with a screw which cannot be inserted unless the cover is fully closed.

I have checked the chuck guard many times.

The power socket is good ; I have run other devices from it.

I will check the fuse tomorrow ; it is held in by a screw.

Edited By Brian John on 31/08/2015 16:19:11

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Keith Long on 31/08/2015 15:14:40:

OK I'll ask the obvious – has the emergency stop switch been pushed (maybe by accident). You reset that by twisting the red knob which will then pop-up slightly resetting the contacts inside allowing current to flow. Very obvious when you know what to look for but can be bafflling if you're new to the game – and just by looking at the knob not always clear that it is depressed.

If the lathe has been turned over and the electrics not disturbed that sort of thing must be well worth checking before getting too excited about the fantastic range of possibilities including it's just decided to break.

Looking at the wiring diagram the main isolation seems to be via a no volts release switch or relay, probably as switch. The ones on the motor are fwd/rev plus a reverse speed reduction setting as brushed motors don't like being reversed after the brushes have worn in.

The other switches are simply looped so break the circuit with one and the machine will stop. This includes the emergency stop and the "safety" trips. I believe the stop switch should completely isolate the machine but it clearly can't if the live and neutral were miss wired as that needs 2 poles. I'd guess it might fail TUV approval due to that. The nvr does do what it should – break both.

What I would do is to use a meter to find out what volts are on them or simply forget that, disconnect from the mains and short the wires going to the ones that aren't wanted. Trouble is that safety ones are shown normally open and the stop switch normally closed which doesn't make much sense at all so it would be best to check what state they are in with a meter / dvm while the machine is operable. I suspect they will be found to be normally closed when the chuck guard and door are closed. If there is a magnet in the part that uses the odd looking switch it is very likely to be a reed switch. If electronics is involved maybe not. It might be a simple micro switch and have a short pip sticking out of it that contacts a guard. Can't see from the photo.

I suppose showing them normally open is ok as they are – until the guards are close.

John

–

Edited By John W1 on 31/08/2015 16:22:20

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

the safety microswitches are correctly drawn as the open state is their default without any actuating force (ie the magnetic field) applied – likewise the safety switch is in default state as fully home prior to depression of button.

One ‘easy’ way to check + bypass microswitches is to tape small button magnets close to the reed switch (you should in a quiet room hear the slight click as the leaves come together – if a mechnical microswitch tape a small nut over top (again should hear a click as switch operates)

Michael – yes I mis understood the ref – the chuck microswitch is I think the out of focus block at right – what I was looking at must be rear of speed pot

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

The micros switches are operated by magnets ; there are definitely no pips.

I did ask before about the power of this motor ( I quoted 500 HP ! ) but it is 500 W. I would have thought a motor of this size should be capable of cutting steel but it does not seem up to the job…something I was warned about before purchasing it. I was also considering a SIEG C2 lathe at the time which is a much bigger lathe but only has a 250W motor. But the C2 will cut steel easily so why is that ? I thought the determining factor would be the power of the motor.

It is amazing what you learn once you actually have a lathe in your hands for a few days ie. what works and what does not and which features are desirable on the lathe. Even if I can get this lathe running again, I don't think it has the grunt to do very much…brass and aluminium only.

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

I have a SX1 micro mill with 150W motor – no problem cutting steel including stainless up to 12mm mills (albeit it slow at times) just need sharp bits

I bought a WM180 lathe as didn’t have room (in a cellar workshop) or easy access for anything much larger – about 500W motor, 2MT tailstock spindle, 100mm 3 + 4 jaw chucks, there are a few features I’d prefer to see better implemented but seems fine for what I want to do at present but considerably heavier than your lathe so somewhat more rigid

[Anonymous]

Posted by Frances IoM on 31/08/2015 14:42:23:
Not to me – a reed switch (at least from my 40+ yrs in electronics/telecomns etc is a linear glass envelope containingg 2 leaves that make contact under an applied magnetc field – this appears to be some form of rotary switch presumeably other side is the arm supporting the guard

Sure looks like a reed switch to me? But then again I haven't got 40 years of electronics under my belt. Like this?

**LINK**

Andrew

[Chris DentonParticipant @chrisdenton53037]

Posted by Frances IoM on 31/08/2015 14:42:23:
Not to me – a reed switch (at least from my 40+ yrs in electronics/telecomns etc is a linear glass envelope containingg 2 leaves that make contact under an applied magnetc field – this appears to be some form of rotary switch presumeably other side is the arm supporting the guard – the two positions reflect up or down of guard and I guess the signal wires (blue + yellow) control the motor + possible breaking of drive current + ?brakeing of chuck

I'm reluctant to make any further suggestions re using a meter on live wires not knowing the background + technical experience of the owner)

Potentiometer for the speed control isn't it?

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Even if I can get this lathe running again, I don't think it has the grunt to do very much…brass and aluminium only.

Oh ye of little faith. Google around a bit and you find fellows doing a fine job of machining steel on the very same machine. IT looks like quite a good little unit, once you have it sorted.

Check out http://minilathe.net/ for a guy making all sorts of steel goodies on his.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

Okay, I will reserve judgement for a while.

UPDATE : The company has said they will try to locate all the necessary electrical spare parts such as the reed switches and a main mother board. Once these have arrived, they will arrange for a local electrician to come and repair it as we should have all the necessary parts to do so. This will save the electrician having to come out twice ; once for diagnosis and the second for repairs.

[Chris DentonParticipant @chrisdenton53037]

I hope they find someone good, most of the electricians I've met (quite a few) wouldn't have a chance with this. They don't seem to be able to think things through on their own, unless it's in appendix 15 then they don't understand it!

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

Chris + Andrew – yes, as I commented to Michael several posts earlier, I’d misuderstood the OP’s ref to the photo – that illustrated in link by Michael appears to be the reed switch to the cover, the other photo has indeed the speed pot centre with I think the reed switch out of focus in foreground

I guess in Cairns it not just a question of picking up the small lathe and driving a few miles to Warco or similar though I’m suprised that a city of 150,00 has so few lathe owners, mechanics etc who could help.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

This is probably an electrical problem rather than a mechanical problem. I am curious as to how many lathe owners would go poking around their motherboard with a multimeter Most people do not fix their own TV's, fridges or sewing machines if it develops an electrical fault and I do not see the lathe as being much different.

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

One thought that just stuck me is that if the lathe is using reed switches as safety cut outs then it relies on there being a magnet in the correct place to activate that switch. If a magnet has come adrift, then the switch won't close and the machine will be dead. Problem might be that an errant magnet will clamp itself to whatever bit of steel it conveniently falls on, so won't obviuosly be rattling around loose inside, but just not doing anything useful. Now Brian said that when he removed the chuck guard he couldn't get the machine to work even by rotating the chuck guard shaft – could there be a connection?

[Anonymous]

Posted by Brian John on 01/09/2015 11:43:07:

This is probably an electrical problem rather than a mechanical problem. I am curious as to how many lathe owners would go poking around their motherboard with a multimeter Most people do not fix their own TV's, fridges or sewing machines if it develops an electrical fault and I do not see the lathe as being much different.

I do for one. At least once a year I need to dismantle a contactor to give it a clean to stop it 'chattering' and dropping out. I've just fixed a problem on the Bridgeport due to dodgy auxiliary contacts on a thermal overload. I've also fixed a couple of intermittent problems on the CNC mill in the past due to a dry joint, and a poor quality copy of an industrial connector.

As for consumer items that's a bit different. First, a new item is cheap enough not to make it worthwhile trying to repair. Second, components, or assemblies, are likely to be custom, and even if available from the manufacturer will be a significant percentage of the cost of a new item.

It helps that I make my living from electronics, so I have the kit and (mostly) know how to use it.

Andrew

PS: However, if I had a problem with a new item I would let the supplier sort it out under warranty.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Hi Brian

With the power OFF you should be able to check your Safety switches with a multi-meter on resistance range. The magnetic proximity switch (encapsulated reed switch) on the belt cover, the micro-switch on the chuck guard and the emergency stop switch are all in series. If you locate the pair of connections on the main board and test across them you should see a dead short when both guards are closed and the emergency stop switch is out (as in not pressed in). Opening a guard or pressing the stop switch will cause and open circuit. If you do get continuity across these two points the safety switches are not the issue and the problem lies elsewhere.

regards Martin

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

The carbide tip cutting tools arrived today ; it will be interesting to compare the finish I get with these to that using the HSS tools….when the lathe is working again.

Can a small flat needle file be used to maintain a sharp edge on HSS tools ?

How about this diamond sharpening stone to sharpen them ?

**LINK**

[Author]

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