New lathe arrived today : The ongoing saga

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

The people who had disintegrating electrical insulation could have had the copper pipes that an old colleague had in their barn conversion – after only a few months they developed pinholes – might have acted as an impromptu sprinkler system!

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by John Haine on 09/11/2015 11:15:53:

The people who had disintegrating electrical insulation could have had the copper pipes that an old colleague had in their barn conversion – after only a few months they developed pinholes – might have acted as an impromptu sprinkler system!

Yes I had one of those pipes too! Pinhole burst inside the wall of the ensuite bathroom while we were away on a month's holiday. A fine old mess we came home to. Flooded the whole bedroom and ruined the carpet. "Oh yes, copper pipe often develops pinholes, it's a common manufacturing fault" the plumber told me. Funny. Years and years working on steam plant and hospital maintenance and I never came across it. Course, the copper pipe then was all made in Australia or the USA.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Ian S C on 09/11/2015 10:48:50:

A fellow Kiwi has just bought a Sieg X3 mill off Trade Me (Kiwi version of Ebay), had to pull it to bits to get it in the workshop, opened one part (the column I think), full of sand.

Brian, with Hoppers help will understand his lathe better than most who are just starting out, when you start your apprenticeship as a machinist you don't usually have to build the lathe—-Perhaps it's not a bad idea.

Ian S C

Some people fill the columns with sand to reduce vibration – so if second hand it may have been done by the previous owner.

Neil

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

A concrete slurry might be better than just plain sand.

I recollect seeing 2 prices in the past for these sizes of lathes and biiger – as they come and cleaned up. Ketan might clear that up but my impression was that the cleaned up price included removing the preservative. It all seems to be one price now so assume the preservative has changed.

John

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[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

I would happily have paid extra to have the lathe set up in working condition but I was assured that the lathe was ready to use straight out of the box ! As it was, I was too far down the track before I realised that this lathe had more than just set up problems. Anyway the lathe is working fine now thanks to Hopper's expertise. Had he not offered his services I think I may have just put this machine back in its box and gone back to building model trains.

Edited By Brian John on 10/11/2015 10:48:35

Edited By Brian John on 10/11/2015 10:48:59

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

For what Hopper has done Brian cost it at over £20 per hour, more likely £40 really, could even be more. I need to visit a machine tool recon company to change a bearing for me. If it's simple no charge at all as a favour. If work needed £40 per hour and vat that I could probably avoid by paying cash but sometimes that isn't possible. Most claims about toolmaking costs in China suggest around a 50% reduction in cost. I mentioned one of the ones I am fully aware of that mustn't have any of the problems mentioned here.

**LINK**

Done from what I can gather by a factory owned by a company that is based in the US and has plant in several countries, not China owned. The tools that were made finished up on automated machines that were in the UK and are now in India. Few people are needed at this stage but the Indian labour rates are lower but by far the biggest cost is the actual plant, Circa £1M in this case and getting near being worn out.

John

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[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

In my opinion, this post was, is, should be about Brian, and issues with him and his lathe. At present Brians lathe is good enough for him, which is well and good.

1. Sand in column is a bit like 'look at the size of fish I cought'…where a 6" fish turns into a giant shark!

2. All machines are covered in some kind of transport grease.

Ketan at ARC.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

I am a bit surprised that we are not seeing any lathes made in India. They seem to have all the necessary skills and the low wages. Perhaps it will happen in time. It would be nice to have somebody give the Chinese a bit of competition ; it might even result in better machines all round.

Edited By Brian John on 10/11/2015 11:51:40

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Begs the question who is commissioning the the machines? At a guess I would suggest that the orders are coming from the West rather than being a Chinese initiative. Maybe someone knows for sure.

Martin

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Back to Brian's specific machine, here are some pics of the end result. Some 1mm and 1.5mm deep cuts on some scrap 1" and 1/2" diameter steel bar. Quite an acceptable finish too.

 

And never again shall I think of the Mighty Drummond as a small and light duty lathe! Brian's new faceplate set up for boring the new register recesses on the back.

Edited By Hopper on 10/11/2015 12:07:46

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Brian John on 10/11/2015 11:49:46:

I am a bit surprised that we are not seeing any lathes made in India. They seem to have all the necessary skills and the low wages. Perhaps it will happen in time. It would be nice to have somebody give the Chinese a bit of competition ; it might even result in better machines all round.

Edited By Brian John on 10/11/2015 11:51:40

They did some Myford clones some years ago Brian that were highly rated. One aspect was an excellent choice of cast iron. These days i believe they do some chucks etc. However in another area, microscopes, I have heard more horror stories than you wouldn't believe that in many way are similar to the problems you have had with your lathe. Distorting and really poor alignment made worse by parts being epoxied together rather than having the usual screw adjustments. Again of course I have only really heard about the bad ones and in your case the alignment seems to be pretty good really.

John

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[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by John W1 on 10/11/2015 12:20:31:

Posted by Brian John on 10/11/2015 11:49:46:

I am a bit surprised that we are not seeing any lathes made in India. They seem to have all the necessary skills and the low wages. Perhaps it will happen in time. It would be nice to have somebody give the Chinese a bit of competition ; it might even result in better machines all round.

Edited By Brian John on 10/11/2015 11:51:40

They did some Myford clones some years ago Brian that were highly rated. One aspect was an excellent choice of cast iron. These days i believe they do some chucks etc. However in another area, microscopes, I have heard more horror stories than you wouldn't believe that in many way are similar to the problems you have had with your lathe. Distorting and really poor alignment made worse by parts being epoxied together rather than having the usual screw adjustments. Again of course I have only really heard about the bad ones and in your case the alignment seems to be pretty good really.

John

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My mate up the road has an Indian-made Mysore Enterprise 13" x 40" (or so) lathe and it is an outstanding machine. Very well built and finished and very accurate. He bought it at auction for about $1200 from a tech college and reckons it the best deal he ever made. I'd jump at one myself it came up.

 

Edited By Hopper on 10/11/2015 14:07:06

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

There is one of those here

**LINK**

Weight around 1 tonne + a bit. I visited Excel once and there were several machines of that sort of size but a bit more heavily built on the way out of the door. All Chinese and from memory all though not that big a lathe around 1 1/2 tonne. I'm not at all sure that it's possible to compare lathes of this sort of order with lathes like Brian's or mini lathes. There is a bit of a price difference as well. It just isn't possible to say lathes costs are pro rata to size. They most definitely aren't for the same quality levels.

John

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[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

There is a short section of a slideway grinder in this video

**LINK**

Not the type they probably use in China for their precision lathes. There is another type that takes the other bits and pieces so that after grinding they all match and things line up. Maybe due to low labour costs they don't go that extreme and spend more time setting up so that things will match and line up. Either way time on machines like this cost no matter where they are. Machines to locate parts and drill holes in the correct place and tap them also cost and I doubt if anyone would use a budget cnc mill for that as it probably wouldn't last long enough.

Must admit I do wonder why some one doesn't produce a small precise lathe to the same standard as the bigger ones but suspect a lot of people would find the price out of order. I also suspect it would just have to be heavier than a baby lathe and have more between centres to interest enough people.

John

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[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Hopper on 10/11/2015 12:05:45:

Back to Brian's specific machine, here are some pics of the end result. Some 1mm and 1.5mm deep cuts on some scrap 1" and 1/2" diameter steel bar. Quite an acceptable finish too.

…

And never again shall I think of the Mighty Drummond as a small and light duty lathe! Brian's new faceplate set up for boring the new register recesses on the back.

.

Good to see evidence of the results, Hopper

Never doubted you for a moment … Super Job.

MichaelG.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

When I got my Taiwanese lathe twenty years ago I asked about Indian, and other countries lathes. The chap who sold me the lathe (personally chosen at the factory in Taiwan) told me how he visited factories in India, his opinion was that even Chinese lathes were superior in the smaller sizes, while the larger machines were as good as, if not better than any in the world.

Ian S C

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

Things are going well now. I did come across one problem today when the tailstock jammed up while I was trying to drill some holes. I pulled it apart and found that swarf had got in there : between parts 402 (pinole…centre sleeve) and 416 (tailstock body). I would never have thought swarf could get in there ! Anyway, I learned a new word ''pinole''

I made some new, larger handles from aluminium for the lathe and this has made a big difference ; it is much easy to turn all three wheels now. The old piddly, little handles and one new handle are in front of the lathe. You can also see the wax chucks and the discs I cut from them. That went very well and this will be my usual method for facing small parts.

Hopper has worked some real magic on this machine….many thanks.

 

 

Edited By Brian John on 12/11/2015 07:00:30

Edited By Brian John on 12/11/2015 07:04:29

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Well done both Brian and Hopper.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Result! Glad you are enjoying it mate.

The first accessories for your lathe made and fitted. You are well on the slippery slope now. Be careful, it can become addictive!

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

Would this be a suitable 6mm boring bar for this lathe ?

**LINK**

I was going to buy an 8mm indexable boring bar until it was pointed out to me that the tool tip would be too high for my lathe. I assume that 6mm should be okay ?

[egaParticipant @ega]

Brian John:

I always use this kind of boring bar – ie round section with flats top and bottom – in a shop-made holder either of the kind described by GHT or a simple split block closed by the tool post clamp screws.

My understanding is that they are made so that the insert is on centre when the flat is horizontal and the bar centre level with the lathe centre line. This means that you can make an accurate holder by gripping the blank in the toolpost and drilling, boring and reaming with tools held in the lathe spindle. I am not sure how this would be done in detail on your lathe but believe the principle is sound.

Incidentally, using the same approach you could probably make a holder for the considerably stiffer 8mm bar.

Edited By ega on 13/11/2015 11:04:18

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Do you have to go insert tool? A bit of mild steel to hold a piece of 1/8th toolsteel can be made in various sizes to give max rigidity for the hole in question. Googling for a picture lead me here which has several pictures but you can fit the locking screw down from the end.

Edited By Bazyle on 13/11/2015 11:23:09

[Gas_mantle.Participant @gas_mantle]

Brian,

I cant offer any advice on the size of bar you need but I can say I have an 8mm version of the same bar for use on my slightly larger lathe, I find it works well for the money.

As for the price in the link you gave, although I'm not sure of the Australian exchange rate $62 seems a lot – from memory I think I paid about £12 (maybe £15 max). I'd be inclined to shop around a bit for a better price.

Edited By Peter Nichols on 13/11/2015 11:28:11

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Posted by Brian John on 13/11/2015 10:23:55:

Would this be a suitable 6mm boring bar for this lathe ?

**LINK**

I was going to buy an 8mm indexable boring bar until it was pointed out to me that the tool tip would be too high for my lathe. I assume that 6mm should be okay ?

Brian, it's a nice piece of kit but your lathe has neither the power or rigidity to make it work properly. A sharp HSS tool should be quite suitable for the capabilities of your lathe.

G.E.O. Thomas wrote a beaut article on boring bars many years ago in M.E. Maybe somewhere it is archived?

* Danny M *

[Gordon TarlingParticipant @gordontarling37126]

Brian – That very same 6mm boring bar is available on the RDG Tools website for £16.68, which equates to 35.5 Australian Dollars, so paying almost 62 dollars for it seems a bit of a ripoff to me, even with the postage from the UK added. I have noticed on many occasions that the same company appears to inflate their Ebay prices substantially on many items, so I always buy direct from their website.

Edited By Gordon Tarling 1 on 13/11/2015 11:51:30

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