New lathe arrived today : The ongoing saga

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

324 is still fitted ; it is connected to all the gears. I will post a photo tomorrow.

I am off to work now.

[Gas_mantle.Participant @gas_mantle]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 26/09/2015 12:32:59:

This is like doing a jigsaw puzzle without being able to touch the pieces.

Neil

….. and where one or 2 pieces may be missing

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Perhaps the other 323 in 326 locates it. It doesn't seem to have any other purpose. It looks like 326 is still attacjed in the shot. Maybe they dropped the other bits and decided to rely on the ball to hold the dog clutch in place or the parts have worked loose so just need resetting.

John

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[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Brian John on 26/09/2015 09:21:15:

I am still not sure what is wrong at the tailstock end. That should not have come loose either nor will it stay together. But I will deal with the headstock problem first…tomorrow afternoon after I wake up. I am still not convinced that 320 is even there !

Looks like at the tailstock end, according to the drawing, grub screw 302 bears on the bushing 303 and holds it in place. The bushing is captive between the end of the thread on the leadscrew and the handwheel assy.. Probably needs a small dimple drilling on the outside of the bushing for the grubscrew to locate into.

We'll have to catch up again early this week. I have got aroiund to sharpening those tool bits so will drop them off.
Been a bit busy with 'Er Indoors this week.

Edited By Hopper on 26/09/2015 13:19:54

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Good Man, Hopper … We're all relying on you !!

Incidentally, I think that 330 is intended to prevnt longitudinal motion of the Bush. [it's not clear from the exploded view, or from Brian's photo, but I suspect there is a 'stopped' groove in 303]

330 appears to have an integral pin at the upper end, and a screw fixing at the lower end.

[other interpretations are welcome, to keep this guessing-game alive]

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I don't think you mean 330, 330 is a plate with a fiducial mark on it.

Neil

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I suspect Hopper best take a file with him to add a bit of a groove to 303 where the fixing screw meets it as mentioned earlier. i suspect a little bit of 303 needs stick out each side of the casting to form a bearing surface so drilling might be hit and miss were as mark with screw and then file a depressions should come out ok.

John

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[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Brian John on 25/09/2015 06:58:17:

 

.

Neil,

Oh dear … is that what it's supposed to be ?

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 26/09/2015 16:26:58

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Looking at all the probs it doesn't surprise me that you have had trouble getting a decent finish, by the time all the accumulated slack / non correct / misaligned / badly fitted parts have 'accumulated ' their errors it's a wonder the machine ran at all, & you've only had it for 4 weeks.

FWIW, I would suggest you call their manager, explain what has transpired; direct him to this forum with all the write ups of what you have had to do & ask what sort of recompense he is willing to provide, as clearly this machine was never 'fit for purpose' from day one & in your view you should be entitled to some recompense for all the trouble & inconvenience you have endured so far, & still have no workable machine. I would go so far as to mention that you will be keeping this forum up to date with his response, plus you could also take action in the small claims court under 'the sale of goods act' if nothing satisfactory transpires… just my two penn'orth.

George.

Edited By mechman48 on 26/09/2015 17:36:48

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

It's all very well saying the machine is not fit for purpose but as we have seen the lathe has been run backwards while trying to take a cut, the tools have also been mounted upside down at one time, been run without bothering to oil the ways, etc. Any claim in the courts is likely to be counter claimed that he user was not fit for purpose – no offence meant Brian. George or anyone else, would you run your car without oil and then when the engine failed claim it was not fit for purpose?

The supplier also stated that it was not suitable for turning steel, how can anyone now go back and and say its not fit for purpose because they are getting a poor finish on steel

Its also interesting to look at that long gauge on the boss that holds the tailstock end into the bed. Would that be caused by a loose screw? Looks like the carrage or tool may have been run into something, the feed screw continued to turn and as the carrage could not move the screw wound itself out to the right pushing teh boss with it.

.

Edited By JasonB on 26/09/2015 17:46:36

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

I have no intention of whinging to the courts or anybody else about this. The problems started late on Friday afternoon about 3.30 PM and I made the decision to tackle it myself rather than wait for advice from the company ''sometime next week''. I am fully aware that I have voided my warranty. The lathe will NOT be sent back even if the company instructed me to do that : I am sick of sending stuff back ! The lathe stays here.

My wife is looking for something heavy in the garage to which she can chain her new bicycle so it may prove useful eventually

I have been working all night and it is time for bed. I will have another look later today after I wake up.

 

Edited By Brian John on 26/09/2015 23:03:32

Edited By Brian John on 26/09/2015 23:05:29

[Simon CollierParticipant @simoncollier74340]

The bicycle needs to be in the garage and chained up? My bicycles live on the front verandah, not chained up.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

It is a shared garage with no door ie. open to the driveway. Anybody can walk in at night.

I am finished work for the week (are there people out there who really like their job !! ?? ) so now I can concentrate on this problem. I have had a look today and I can see how everything fits together. I can also see why 314 pulled straight out : screw/pin 320 was there but it was set ''BELOW the surface'' ie. it was not doing anything at all.

Why did they do that ? Because the pin 315 is in the way. I suspect when they tried to assemble this section they realised that they hade made a miscalculation so rather than try to fix it they came up with this solution. You can see in the photo below which is taken of the underside. Large grub screw is for the ball and the smaller grub screw sits in on top of 320.

I did try to install shaft 314 upside down ie. so that pin 315 would be on TOP when assembled. I am not sure this would even work but I tried it anyway. But it will NOT go in. I am not sure why but I cannot get it past the ball 317 when assembling this way. (The indents for the ball would also be in the wrong position.) It should go in but I thought I would leave it there for now and consider my position. 

One possible solution is to file off that part of pin 315 which is blocking 320 but I am not keen on doing that as it may weaken the pin.

Edited By Brian John on 27/09/2015 06:47:05

Edited By Brian John on 27/09/2015 06:50:39

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You could see if 315 can be pushed out a bit further, maybe possible to lever it out with a flat screwdriver placed in the groove. Filing won't weaken anything

You will need to slacken off the larger grub screw so the ball drops a bit then 314 wil push in.

Edited By JasonB on 27/09/2015 06:52:47

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

I think filing 315 might be better than trying to push it out. If I push it out then it might loosen a bit and I certainly do not want it coming out.

Yes, slackening off the larger grub screw for the ball SHOULD work  !

 

Edited By Brian John on 27/09/2015 07:16:44

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Brian,

I don't want to re-start the whole "fit for purse" or "it's cheaper than a Super Adept was" debate, but: What you are finding with this machine explains why some consider these Chinese lathes as "a set of machined castings".

All being well; you will find that the basic castings, and the machining thereof, are good. … Where things tend to go wrong is in the smaller components and the assembly. [i.e. once people get involved].

The good news, of course, is that these are the parts you can re-make and 'fit' carefully if needs be.

I applaud your attitude: "I made the decision to tackle it myself rather than wait for advice from the company ''sometime next week''. I am fully aware that I have voided my warranty. The lathe will NOT be sent back even if the company instructed me to do that : I am sick of sending stuff back ! The lathe stays here."

You will learn a lot by understanding what has been done badly, and by doing the corrective work.

MichaelG.

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 27/09/2015 14:25:10

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

If you do lever the pin and it does come out all you are likely to need is some loctite retainer. Something you will probably find of use later for other things.

I used some the other day that must be well over 10 years old and it still works. Bearing suppliers often stock it and sell at a reduced price when it's storage date has passed. Loctite also do a thread lock that is suitable for disassembly with hand tools as well as one that isn't.

John

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[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

Yes, I have both types of Loctite (222 and 263). This is a small pin that has to exert a lot of force. I would have designed it with a larger pin. I will cut it off or file it tomorrow.

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Posted by Brian John on 27/09/2015 06:39:59:

It is a shared garage with no door ie. open to the driveway. Anybody can walk in at night.

(are there people out there who really like their job !! ?? )

 

Bike and Lathe, packaged ready to go!

I did enjoy one job greatly but the pay was lousy, with no prospects of more cash I had to give it up.

Counted the days to when I could retire early from my final job, did miss the people though.

 

Edited By V8Eng on 27/09/2015 17:48:12

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Yes!

Full marks to Brian for his perseverance. By the time that he has things sorted, he will have gained a lot of knowledge, and, importantly, confidence, in both the machine and himself.

It may be that the pin should be flush with the side of the groove, i.e stick out further, so as to engage more deeply in the corresponding part that it is intended to move to and fro.

FWIW, my advice would be to remove the pin completely, and then refit with Loctite (strongest type available) so that the end is flush with the side of the groove, and then check that it does not foul the bottom of the groove in the mating part. (Am too idle to page back to quote part nos!)

Hopefully, he will soon have an end to his problems with this machine.

If you want a better finish, on cylindrical work, than you get by turning, try some "freehand grinding", i.e use emery tape, either held on a file or in the fingers, BUT:

Cover the bedways with newspaper or rag, to minimise the risk of abrasive dust settling on them.

IMPORTANTLY, keep tape, file and/or fingers clear of the chuck!

Start with coarse (say 80) emery and as the finish improves, change to finer (say 220). For the final polish use oil as well. The ultimate in polish will probably come by using 400 or 600 grade WetnDry.

FINALLY, bin the newspaper or rag, and clean up afterwards. Abrasives plus oil equals grinding paste, and encouraging wear in Saddle and Bed is not to be encouraged.

Good Luck Brian, and keep at it! Things can only get better as you solve each problem.

You are fortunate to have the advice provided by everyone on this forum, (even if some are 12,000 miles away) and especially the practical help from Hopper. But that's what the Forum is about.

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 27/09/2015 17:54:14

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I'd take care about cutting the pin Brian in case it's slipped back for some reason. The end should go well past the centre line of the part carrying the groove it fits in.

One trick I use to remove things like that is either a drill chuck or the lathe chuck. They will grip tightly and not mark significantly. A twist and pull with a bit of care often gets bits like that out without bending them.

John

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[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

I will let Hopper have a look at the finish on my steel mandrels when he comes over. Perhaps they are not as bad as I thought but I was sure he was getting a much better finish the other day.

So if I was going to make a piston out of steel I would make it slightly oversize and finish down to correct size with emery paper ?

I do not think the pin has slipped back. I am sure this is where they originally put it as it will not move at all now. The pin in its current position is why they did not properly fit screw/pin 320…because they couldn't !

Edited By Brian John on 27/09/2015 18:41:08

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

they might have hit it too hard with a hammer Brian.

John

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[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

320 only needs to poke out a very small amount to work., just 1/2 a turn may be enough.

Neil

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

Things are looking better now. I cut pin 315 with a dremel tool and this allowed 320 to sit in the recess. Everything seemed to go back together reasonably well. The manual/auto feed switch works and it cannot now be pulled out. Just after doing this, I received a phone call from their the company. I spoke to their chief specialist who does all the repairs and we discussed this problem and what to do at the tailstock end. He suggested as others have done, to drill an indent so that grub screw 302 can sit properly on the bush 303.

He suggested using a 4.2mm drill bit ( it is a M5 X 6mm grub screw) but I did not want the drill bit possibly rubbing against the threads so I used a 3.5mm drill bit instead. It seems to have worked. I finished turning one steel mandrel and cut the thread on it. Then I used the mandrel to turn an aluminium flywheel. I am still not happy with the finish on steel but I think that is caused by operator inexperience and the tools bits not being quite sharp enough.

The die holder has been fitted with rubber sleeves to stop it knocking against the lathe parts as per Hopper's suggestion. I was surprised that cutting the thread on steel was no more difficult than cutting aluminium. But I really must make a spindle handle soon !

I did forget to put in grub screw 323 but there was no way I was going to pull the whole thing apart again . I managed to get my fingers underneath the block 321 and got the thread going by hand and finished tightening it with a small allen key which only just fitted underneath. Lesson : make sure there are no screws left in the tray !

Edited By Brian John on 28/09/2015 07:41:30

Edited By Brian John on 28/09/2015 07:42:20

Edited By Brian John on 28/09/2015 07:45:54

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