New lathe arrived today : The ongoing saga

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

1. make sure the thread is clear and thet the grub screw is able to screw in far enough, you may not be tightening against the bush.

2. Make sure grub screw is not damaged, they are one of the areas where costs are kept down, replace if needed

3.. File a flat on the bush for the screw to bear against

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

Bigger problems now : the auto/manual feed assembly has come out. I am unsure how to get inside to fix this problem.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Brian,

Looking at 8-5 in the manual, it appears that:

317, 318, 319 comprise a detent, the ball sits in the dimple in that shaft.

320, 323 comprise a locator to hold the shaft in place.

presumably, some or all of this has come loose, or even dropped out.

.

Good Luck

MichaelG.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

Okay, thank you for that. I have to work tonight so there is no time to look at it. I will have a go tomorrow. I am hoping that those two screws (21) hold the front plate on and I will be able to access this area when they are removed. There is a plastic plate (not shown in the manual) denoting manual / auto feed which will have to be pried or scraped off to get at the screws.

NOTE : this MIGHT explain why I was not getting a perfect finish on the steel.

Edited By Brian John on 25/09/2015 10:12:48

[Gas_mantle.Participant @gas_mantle]

I've scrolled back to an earlier link showing part of the manual in order that I (and others can see what you are talking about).

**LINK**

I'm missing something here but how did you take the last photo of the complete assembly out of the machine (minus plate 20) without removing plate 20 and the 2 retaining screws (no 21) from the machine ?

I can't see any other way the assembly can be removed ?

Edit – unless the whole assembly is smaller than the hole in plate 20, but that looks unlikely to me ?

 

Edited By Peter Nichols on 25/09/2015 10:35:09

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Looking at the assembly diagram, it seems that either screw 323 or  320 hold that knob in place, with the other keeping shaft 324 located. It seems odd that they should unscrew simultaneously with the grub screw that holds the leadscrew in place.

Are you sure you haven't tried to 'adjust' grubscrew 323? And you must have pulled the knob out, even without the plug in place it would be very unlikely to fall out.

If you are fiddling with it without studying the manual and understanding how it works, you can't complain if bits fall out or become badly adjusted.

Anyway it should be easily to reassemble it if you can find the bits and if you read the manual and study the assembly drawing.

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 25/09/2015 10:41:15

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

I was attempting to adjust the tailstock end by switching between manual and auto ; that is when the whole part came out. I had NOT undone any screws at all nor had I removed the front cover. I was turning steel when all these things started coming apart. I cannot yet see why the part came out but I think something was not screwed up tight somewhere.

I do not fiddle with things I know nothing about….unless they break and I have to fix it .

Edited By Brian John on 25/09/2015 10:56:53

[Gas_mantle.Participant @gas_mantle]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 25/09/2015 10:37:14:

Looking at the assembly diagram, it seems that either screw 323 or 320 hold that knob in place, with the other keeping shaft 324 located. It seems odd that they should unscrew simultaneously with the grub screw that holds the leadscrew in place.

Neil

I assumed that 320 and 323 are part of the same securing fixing that locates in the groove of part 314.

Isn't part 324 just allowed to slide in the shaft to engage the clutch when moved by 315 ?

Peter.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I think 322 is the sliding part, 324 has to remain in the same place so the gear doesn't move back and forth, and also it would fall out if not located.

It's actually quite a neat little design and I might rip it off for the mega-adept instead of using an 'open' style dog clutch..

Neil.

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 25/09/2015 12:33:16

[Gas_mantle.Participant @gas_mantle]

If 322 was the sliding part it would mean that when it moves left to engage the dog clutch it would have a reduced flat surface bearing against part 311 when it is needed most (ie the leadscrew engaged)

I think (although I may well be wrong) that pin 315 engages with the groove in 324 allowing it to slide and engage or disengage the dog clutch.

The gearwheel will not move side to side as there is another piece between it and 326 – If you look at the slightly further up the parts document page it's shown where it mentions about oiling.

My guess is all Brian needs to do is replace the assembly the way it came out and secure 320 / 323 ensuring that 311 and 322 mate flat on flat and that pin 315 registers with the groove in 324 allowing it to slide as the front knob is operated.

Well that's my guess as to what has happened and how it goes back together

Peter.

Edited By Peter Nichols on 25/09/2015 13:13:07

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

322 slides. 324 if held into 326 by screw 323.

Even with 322 slid to the left it has a far larger contact area than the area of the dog clutch.

It may not be so easy to just push things back into place as the ball part 317 may have gone AWOL

Edited By JasonB on 25/09/2015 13:22:52

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

The lad's not had much luck with this has he ?

Roy

[Gas_mantle.Participant @gas_mantle]

I stand corrected

I guess the important thing now is check the floor before getting the hoover out incase there's a ball gone AWOL

Peter.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I'm pretty sure Brian has pulled the knob out so given that everything else is ok should be able to push it back in as all that holds it in is the detent – 317,319,318.. It look like 320 hold 324 in place and 323 locks 320 otherwise the set up wouldn't work.

What I think has happened is that the bush by the handle has come out so that needs a fix. What I would suggest first is to loosen 302 right off, push the bush 303 in with a clean surface up towards the screw that holds it in place. Tighten the screw which will mark the bush, remove a file a groove in it to suit the end of the screw. This will mean pushing the lead screw back in place. It will have to be rotated so that parts 311 and 322 mesh with each other. I'd guess that the bush has a little sticking out of the casting at each end when it's in the correct place.

The set up reminds me of a Hobbymat so there may be another problem if the feed didn't engage easily and became stiff. The tongue on 324 and the mating slot in 322 burr over. These aught to be hardened but aren't as supplied on a Hobbymat. The fix is to dismantle and see what is fouling and clean it up with a file. Not using too much force on the knob can help prevent the problem – these parts wont mate until they line up. Also engaging and disengaging smartly.

In order to get the knob and shaft 314 back in place 318 may have to be slackened off or even removed. Make sure the ball and spring aren't lost. The peg on the end of it will locate in the slot in part 322 so it should be possible to see the orientation needed when it is pushed back in. Adjust 318 until the detent works nicely.

There should be no need to touch 323 which locks the 320 screw in place.

John

–

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

I was not sure if I should do anything or just wait but I decided to take the front plate off and remove the two socket head caps (316). The whole assembly has now been removed from the lathe. I can now see what somebody mentioned earlier : how the hell did part 314 pull out ? It should have been held in with the ball 317. I have tried to just push it back in but it will not…nor should it. The grub screw would have to be loosened to reinsert it. But before I do this, I need to know how and why it came out otherwise it could happen again.

I am tired after working all night and I have to work again tonight so I will think about it for 24 hours before deciding how to proceed. I have probably voided my warranty by taking the lathe apart but I am past caring…..I will fix it myself !

Photo 2 is the front and photo 3 is the underside of part 321.

Edited By Brian John on 26/09/2015 07:06:09

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Brian John on 26/09/2015 07:04:39:

I can now see what somebody mentioned earlier : how the hell did part 314 pull out ? It should have been held in with the ball 317.

Its not the ball that holds it in place it is the small pin 320 which is pushed into the groove by screw 323.

You will need to loosen 323 and 318 so teh ball and pin drop down, insert 314 and then do the two svrews back up.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

320 is labelled grub screw M5 X 6 ?

I have looked through the hole : the only thing sticking up is the ball 317 . There is no pin sticking up at all so this explains why 314 came out….there was nothing holding it in ! I am not sure if 320 is even there. I will take 323 out tomorrow and have a look as there is no time now.

Edited By Brian John on 26/09/2015 07:23:03

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by JasonB on 26/09/2015 07:12:07:

Posted by Brian John on 26/09/2015 07:04:39:

I can now see what somebody mentioned earlier : how the hell did part 314 pull out ? It should have been held in with the ball 317.

Its not the ball that holds it in place it is the small pin 320 which is pushed into the groove by screw 323.

You will need to loosen 323 and 318 so teh ball and pin drop down, insert 314 and then do the two svrews back up.

It looks to me that 320 holds 324 in Jason however there are several grub screws about.

.

What's needed is a photo of the underside of the block. The screw positions will make it clear as to what holds what. There is also a 323 going into 326 so the drawing might be wrong. That one might keep 324 in place. They could also modify the 326 so that the gear holds 324 in place. 325 is an "oil cup". Brian should be able to tell if 324 is really held in 326.

The other end is pretty straight forwards.

All to save a rack, gear and handle plus a clasp nut but I suppose it is cheaper.

John

–

Edited By John W1 on 26/09/2015 09:15:57

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

I am still not sure what is wrong at the tailstock end. That should not have come loose either nor will it stay together. But I will deal with the headstock problem first…tomorrow afternoon after I wake up. I am still not convinced that 320 is even there !

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

refering to the view 8-5 [thanks for clipping that, John]

I'm pretty sure that:

320 is a dog-ended grubscrew

323 is a grubscrew which locks 320 in position

317 is a ball

319 is a spring

318 is a grubscrew applying pressure to 319

… Seems a fairly simple arrangement [if all the bits are present]

MichaelG.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

If 320 is present then it has not been set high enough to have any effect. I will know more tomorrow when I remove 323.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

John, there is a photo of the underside, its brians last one. front face downwards

What is clear is that neither of those screws from underneath hold 322 as you can see that the boss 326 and gear 329 are not on the same centreline, they are further towards the rear of the block.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

From all the posts Brian has about this machine it looks like this machine has been cobbled together on a Friday tea time from a box of bits; for a German branded machine… 'made in China' I find this surprising as their QC ( ? ) is generally up a couple of levels on other machine brands made by the same manufacturer. I would have sent it back as 'not fit for purpose' after the initial troubles surfaced …warranty well & truly voided now. At least Brian will have a better machine once all is sorted.

My machine had a couple of faults when I received it.. 1- wrong machine delivered initially, 2 – the bed had a casting fault… after an e mail with a couple of pics it was soon sorted by return carriage… FOC. There is still an oil leak that I haven't sorted … yet! too idle to strip it down to sort out but I top it up every 3-4 months, & have sorted a couple of other niggles… otherwise; if it aint broke don't fix it is my mantra, so am a reasonably happy bunny… for now. Perseverance will win out in the end, don't give up Brian, you WILL get to enjoy model engineering hobby.

[egaParticipant @ega]

I just went back to page 1 of this saga to remind myself of the identity of the machine concerned and note that the English distributor is Excel Machine Tools which treats its customers "with the best service you'll find".

The OP is lucky to have received such detailed and helpful advice from the forum; not sure how far he asked the supplier for help.

Comments about the German reputation for quality engineering are very topical given the damage being done to the VW brand.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I wonder if the 'other' 323 (and possibly an undrawn 320) hold 324 in place. It would mean that the groove in 324 is either drawn in the wrong place or the proportions are out.

Something must stop 324 from popping out of the block when you try to engage the dog clutch.

Brian, how did you get the shaft 324 out of the block? Or is it still fitted?

This is like doing a jigsaw puzzle without being able to touch the pieces.

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 26/09/2015 12:33:45

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