New forum problems

[David-Clark 1Participant @david-clark1]

Sorry Jason. No more swearing. Just that WordPress is such a bad platform but is easy to set up and use.

 

just frustrated at the site now.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Hi David,

Hope you are well.

To the best of my knowledge, Mortons invested a lot of money in creation of the new site.

In my opinion along with others, wordpress was the wrong choice. The developers who were contracted did a poor job, which in turn led to a lot of attacks, resulting in Mortons installing CLOUDFLARE. This is designed to protect this site (and probably visitor) against attacks, but takes too long at times for visitors to get in and do things.

To fix things, I believe that Darren and the back office team are trying to rectify the poor job done by the developers in creating the wordpress site. As far as I understand from my developers there is a strong possibility that the contracted developers failed to use the latest version of wordpress for creation of the site, and they probably failed to use certain up to date add-ons which help to protect the site against attacks.

If these issues can be fixed by Darren and the team at Mortons, perhaps then they could consider removing CLOUDFLARE.

• Whilst the wordpress software may have been free, the contracted developers (who did a poor job), were probably paid for their time + profit – both of which were born at great expense by Mortons.
• CLOUDFLARE is expensive, and the resulting time delay is frustrating.

What I am trying to ascertain is if Darren and his team have found a way to rectify this wordpress creation, or enquire what progress has been made, and at which point CLOUDFLARE is likely or unlikely to be removed.

If CLOUDFLARE is unlikely to be removed due to issues which Mortons find difficult to rectify on this wordpress creation, then it will be difficult to say how many people will be happy to live with this level of frustration caused by the CLOUDFLARE delay. In turn, how many will leave and go elsewhere or to a new site?

Ketan at ARC

[Ches Green UKParticipant @chesgreenuk]

Interesting insight Ketan, thanks.

From Mortons Media Group’s latest Accounts, published on the Companies House website, they do state they are well aware of the move from Print (which Mortons currently rely heavily on for income) to Digital.

I wonder if they have appointed a ‘Transition To Digital’ Director/Manager?

They also have revenue from the Events market, which was probably badly hit by Covid.

Not that many of their current print publications have an online forum associated with them, although there may be Online versions of the magazines available.

My take is that successful forums can drive business forward and hence increase income, if handled correctly.

Ches

 

[David-Clark 1Participant @david-clark1]

Hi Ches

I totally agree with you.

I think the website is the most important marketing tool Mortons have. Especially if thet intend to convert everything to digital.

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Although Model-enginner.com may sound like a good site address once the association with the magazine is removed it does not really fit with what gets discussed here in the same way that model-engineer.co.uk does not either.

Of the other forums such as HMEM, MEM, Mech, etc I would say this has the lowest proportion of threads about model engineering. It is far more machine, method/technique and workshop-orientated and a good deal of what those machines and workshops are being used for is not traditional model engineering which as the doom and gloom merchants keep telling us is dying out.

If a new website wanted to cover its costs then it should be aiming at the wider audience not just old duffers with Locos but also those using their machines and workshops for things like Bike/car restoration/modification, RC Models or the person that just likes making stuff.

I’ll leave you all with that thought while I quickly go and register Hobbyengineeringforum.com!!!

[David-Clark 1Participant @david-clark1]

Hi Jason, that was not the point. I am a certified website designer and have more than enough content to keep it going for years. If I did set up the site I would capture some traffic to sell advertising purely from search engine traffic.

would you like me to build you the website for hobbyengineeringforum.com ?

I don’t charge a fortune.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again. If Mortons had written the specification properly they wouldn’t have to pay the developers a penny as they (the developers) have failed to produce a site which is as good as the old one. Finding how to create a new topic was like the hunt for the Holy Grail, and the slow speed makes me just give up the ghost and go elsewhere

[duncan webster 1]

On duncan webster 1 Said:

. Finding how to create a new topic was like the hunt for the Holy Grail, and the slow speed makes me just give up the ghost and go elsewhere

Seems pretty intuitive me:

Hit “Forums”

Hit  category headline

Hit “create new topic”

Away you go…

I don’t seem to be getting significant speed issues now on Chrome on a tablet or W10 PC, just an occasional lag

Rod

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

…except submitting a post 🙄

Rod

[Roderick Jenkins]

On Roderick Jenkins Said:

On duncan webster 1 Said:

. Finding how to create a new topic was like the hunt for the Holy Grail, and the slow speed makes me just give up the ghost and go elsewhere

Seems pretty intuitive me:

Hit “Forums”

Hit  category headline

Hit “create new topic”

Away you go…

[…]

 

Interesting, Rod

I’ve just hit “Forums” … which page took 20seconds to load

The ‘category headline’ that you mention eludes me

… The word Categories appears once on the Forums page, in the black footer.

 

I do manage to find my way around … but it’s more by intuition than by logic.

MichaelG.

[Ches Green UKParticipant @chesgreenuk]

Darren,

if we could start again, it would be very very different.

It’s good that you are helping keep the users informed of what is going on.

I’m a relative noobie to the old site but did spend a lot of time wandering around it, usually not logged in.

As for the future…hmm…I wonder if it is worth somehow archiving the old site so it is still accessible, and starting afresh with a site like the RCME one?

Anyway, from what you say I can see that the whole job has turned in to a bit of a mess and it has landed on your plate…my sympathies 😉

Speed and layout seem to be the two main issues with the MkII version, at the moment.

Regards,

Ches

[David-Clark 1Participant @david-clark1]

Hi Darren, I think you have to stick with what you have got. It would cost a lot to rewrite using custom code. Mortons just may say it is not worth it and it is gone forever.

 

It should not take long to update the WordPress to include the widgets where they are needed. For example, home page, latest posts on right hand side, classifieds on home page. Classified adverts sorted out. I wrote a classified ad and it kept getting rejected. I kept cutting it down and cutting it down and it ended up as just the headline. Someone said (may have been JasonB) it was probably rejected because proxxon is spelt with two Xs.

The first thing to do is make the navigation work as previously. I don’t think this would be hard. I used to do it all the time when I built WordPress sites. But I never built anything this big. Perhapd you would like to discuss this privately.

Moderator Edit

You have been asked before not to post this sort of information.

I think the first thing to do is get screen shots of all the original pages. If you don’t have these. The way back machine website would probably help.

Then we could add the required widgets. As editor of MEW and later ME as well, I was involved with the site back when it started, probably about 2005 if I remember correctly. There were a few teething problems but they did not take long to sort.

It would be a shame to lose the site because it is so popular. I assume this is why cloudflare is so slow.

Surly a paid cloudflare site should be quicker than what it is, it takes a new post 15 seconds to update.

If you want to talk, you can message me through this website.

 

[Darren Hendley 1]

On Darren Hendley 1 Said:

 

The question is now, do we stick with what we’ve got, or move again? What are your thoughts?

Having had a quick look at those sites there is actually not a lot of difference layout wise to what we have here. First two don’t have the excessive banner ads but do have the white space down the sides. Model Flying has some banner ads but not the white space. So really if someone could do a better job setting out this software there is little point in it changing unless the software is the root cause of the speed issue.

However the biggest problem is the speed or lack of, if that can be sorted it will make the most difference as Members will spend a bit of time learning their way around rather than simply giving up and looking elsewhere.

It has been almost 4 weeks since I e-mailed you “Speed – Where are we at” and there has been no noticeable improvement and no real feedback either to the Mods & Editors or the Members. At the moment activity seems to be well down on what it was prior to the changeover and given the colder weather I would expect to be seeing more activity as the cold drives some out of their workshops. Did you use something like Google analytics before the change? Would be interesting to compare traffic then to what is has dropped to now.

If the speed problem can’t be identified and improved very soon then you need to start looking at alternatives.

[Colin HeseltineParticipant @colinheseltine48622]

Personally I feel that if the developers walked away they could see that the software being used was not capable of doing the job. I use two other sites regularly; Model Engine Maker and Caterhamloutus7.club. The latter of which has just been relaunched on a new platform (same week as MEW).  Both these I feel have significantly better layouts, although I do find the Caterham one a little whiter than I would prefer.

I realise that the costs would be high starting again, but I think Morton’s would lose out heavily if the site ceases to exist because users found it too painful to use.

Colin

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

https://www.scooterotica.org/forum/

Never mind the content … That is an absolutely inspired web address

Congratulations to whomever

MichaelG.

[Darren Hendley 1]

On Darren Hendley 1 Said:

Cloudflare is just a mitigation to keep the site up. It was never intended to be permanent and as soon as we can remove it, it will be gone.

Thank you Darren for taking the time to explain in more detail.

At present, major issue is slow speed due to Cloudflare = loss of visitors. Realistically, when do foresee its removal in terms of days or weeks or months?

Only you and the team at Mortons can decide if you wish to continue spending more time = money on trying to rectify the current offering, or to choose something better such as earlier suggestions like Xenforo as suggested by Michael G and others, or any other proper forum software you guys are comfortable with.

Ketan at ARC

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Slightly radical approach but how about making the old forum a read only archive so the wealth of information is not lost  and then starting again with a brand new Model Engineer Forum using one of the more usual bulletin board software varieties.

John

[VicParticipant @vic]

It took 20 seconds for the home page to load on my iPad just now, and another 5 seconds for the topic I clicked on to load. This is surely unsustainable if you want to keep people posting on here?

[VicParticipant @vic]

“Slightly radical approach but how about making the old forum a read only archive so the wealth of information is not lost  and then starting again with a brand new Model Engineer Forum using one of the more usual bulletin board software varieties.

John“

It won’t work, unless someone, or possibly a group of people admit they got it wrong. Sadly many folks these days don’t like to admit they’ve made a mistake and you can’t start to correct stuff until you do.

[VicParticipant @vic]

Both of the websites mentioned earlier by Darren seem to work fine. But once again why, why, why the light grey lettering on a white background?!!! After access and functionality the next most important thing is surely legibility?

 

 

[Vic]

On Vic Said:

[…]  But once again why, why, why the light grey lettering on a white background?!!! After access and functionality the next most important thing is surely legibility?

 

 

Possibly because it allows the Adverts to ‘shout louder’

… or possibly as an homage to Apple [have you seen the ‘information’ in the packaging of the Pencil ?!]

MichaelG.

[Journeyman]

On Journeyman Said:

Slightly radical approach but how about making the old forum a read only archive so the wealth of information is not lost  and then starting again with a brand new Model Engineer Forum using one of the more usual bulletin board software varieties.

John

John,

I think your suggestion is a reasonable suggestion – an option The Morton’s team should consider, ideally without WordPress and Cloudflare.

Ketan at ARC

[Ketan Swali]

On Ketan Swali Said:

On Journeyman Said:

Slightly radical approach but how about making the old forum a read only archive so the wealth of information is not lost  and then starting again with a brand new Model Engineer Forum using one of the more usual bulletin board software varieties.

John

John,

I think your suggestion is a reasonable suggestion – an option The Morton’s team should consider, ideally without WordPress and Cloudflare.

Ketan at ARC

‘read only archive’ sounds good to me

Anything of renewed interest/relevance could be simply hyperlinked from the new ‘Forum Topic’ as a reference.

MichaelG.

[David-Clark 1]

On David-Clark 1 Said:

classifieds on home page. Classified adverts sorted out.

I don’t even see the need to waste money (that Mortons don’t have to spare) on extra plug-ins or writing something to do that. Other forums like Mech and HMEM simply have a sale/wants section as part of the forum. You can then write as long a description as you like and put as many images as required. Xenfor that HMEM uses handles the classifieds rather well.

It also solves the “while space” at the right of the page better by keeping the advert in view when you scroll down the page.

[Michael Gilligan]

On Michael Gilligan Said:

On Roderick Jenkins Said:

On duncan webster 1 Said:

. Finding how to create a new topic was like the hunt for the Holy Grail, and the slow speed makes me just give up the ghost and go elsewhere

Seems pretty intuitive me:

Hit “Forums”

Hit  category headline

Hit “create new topic”

Away you go…

[…]

 

Interesting, Rod

I’ve just hit “Forums” … which page took 20seconds to load

The ‘category headline’ that you mention eludes me

… The word Categories appears once on the Forums page, in the black footer.

 

I do manage to find my way around … but it’s more by intuition than by logic.

MichaelG.

Hi Michael,

By categories I’m referring to these headings:

I don’t know what the new forum format calls them.

Rod

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