New Chester Craftsman or Colchester Master Mk1.5

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

Hey All,

I am looking for some opinions here…..

I was intent on buying the Chester Craftsman lathe it has DRO, Powered cross feed and a decent size gap bed (all things I am looking for in a lathe)

I have just been asked if I am interested in a Colchester Master Mk1.5. It looks like it is in very good condition but it naturally does not come with a DRO.

Ignoring costs, what lathe would you go for and why?

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

[Bill Davies 2Participant @billdavies2]

The Colchester Student was widely used in technical colleges for training craft and technician students. They were provided with 3 and 4 jaw chucks, faceplate and a driver for between turning between centres. The Master, which appeared in some training centres, was used in production workshops.

If the lathe is on good condition (e.g., state of headstock bearings, bed) then it would be a good choice. The general appearance of the lathe will tell you a lot about its history. If you aren't experienced, it would help to take a knowledgeable friend along. Not that it will (almost certainly) be 3 phase, i.e., main motor and suds pump. 2$V bulb, if I remeber correctly.

Bill

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

If I was building a big traction engine then the Master would be nice but would need a second smaller lathe too just to save on electricity costs.
We see a lot of newcomers electing for a big lathe – big must be good. But if you translate this to a car would you start off with a transit van as your first daily runabout?

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

"You can do small work on a big lathe but not big work on a small lathe". I doubt the electricity cost difference would be much compared with the cost of workshop heating. If in good condition go for the Colchester.

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

Fair points.

Thanks for your advice. I know its already converted to single phase and has been recommended by somebody that I trust with things like this.

My dad does have an Axminster version of the Sieg SC4 so I could always use that if I need to.

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

I have had a nice Colchester Student (ex-St. Thomas' hospital), circa 1969, for the last thirty years but if I were to be starting again I think that it would be a no-brainer for me to opt for a similar sized Warco geared-head machine. The rational being that my lathe is now 54 years years old and although this particular machine has been relatively lightly used (it had never turned steel or had coolant fitted until it came to me) not many machines will have had such an easy life. Everything has a finite lifespan and as old British machine tools pass down the years it stands to reason that they do so in a progressively degraded condition. I have never had a DRO because I can achieve all the accuracy I need through knowing the machine and a little experience. Someone will get a machine capable of another 54 years work when it's time to sell-up but it can never be as good as a new machine no matter which country it originates from, IMO.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

I have a 1.5 which was ex university and have added to tooling ever since, it’s built like a brick toilet so whatever condition you get it your use at home is unlikely to add too much to the wear. Mine gets used for mostly stainless and parts off 50mm 316 without blinking mostly using a collet chuck. Best of luck with whatever choice you make.

[BazParticipant @baz89810]

You cannot beat good Old British iron. The Colchester was built to be thrashed every day in production shops, as Bernard says they are built like brick toilets, for me it would be a no brainer, Colchester every time.

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

I pulled the trigger, should be getting transported in the next couple of weeks, schedules permitting.

The more I thought about it the more I thought it was a no-brainer! If the worst comes to worst I can re-sell it and buy the other lathe.

[Taf_PembsParticipant @taf_pembs]

I doubt you'll be disappointed, I have a Student Mk 1.5 (6 1/2 centre height) gap bed, 3 phase but running on a VFD.

She is reasonably old, 1970 ish and a little 'sloppy' in places (must make a new cross slide nut!) but the beds are still decent and runs lovely.

I've done some really small parts on it (having a Burnerd multi size collet chuck is brilliant) but also re surfacing tractor brake drums etc .. not a problem.

I don't have a DRO but maybe in the future.. they can be had for reasonable money nowadays.

Just take the time to set it up tidy once you have it installed .. plenty of vids of Youtube on lathe 'leveling' will give some guidance on that if you are not familiar.

The other plus point, if it's not decent, break it for parts.. they are getting like hens teeth now and you'll more than likely make more than your money back with a bit of patience. That was the main reason I bought mine, if it wasn't do er up able I would probably be able to afford a better one after!

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

Thanks Taf!!

I am really looking forward to getting her home and setup. she looks very tidy. DRO probably won't be an instant buy as I would like to learn technique before "cheating" with the DRO.

Its the last big piece of my workshop that I was missing (except for a bandsaw of some description). I may have to make my workbench thinner though so I have space to work still, running out of viable space in the container!

Here are some pictures of her

[Anonymous]

The important thing to consider with a gap bed is not so much the diameter that can be turned but the length. With a faceplate in place that can be surprisingly small.

I have a 2-axis DRO on my vertical mill, and it is the most useful accessory I have ever bought. But I don't have a DRO on the lathe and have never felt the need for one.

Andrew

[Taf_PembsParticipant @taf_pembs]

I see someone has taken to it with what looks like blue Hammerite!

Quick threading attachment with it.. nice addition, don't see many of them.. I'd like the metric version for mine, gives you a big selection of pitches.

There doesn't seem to be ay chunks out of the ways from 'miss use'. Its hard to see but the top edge of the nearest to front way seems to have an even reflection, really hard to see in the small photo's but well used machines that tends to be rounded over a bit.. not necessarily a problem but can be a sign of heavy use.

Is there the usual stuff that comes wit them – a 4 jaw chuck, face plate, drive dog, fixed and traveling steady?

Edited By Taf_Pembs on 13/06/2023 07:08:29

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

As you say you want to work in metric make sure it has the gears to allow for that probably a 120/127 combination.

As Taf hints at it is things like steadies that become hard to find and they fetch a premium, fixed one will likely get more use than the traveling

That gap does look rather short, not that familiar with it but it looks like a permanent gap rather than a removable gap piece so that could be why it is short, you would be pushed to get much in there once the faceplate fills most of it up.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

There is a removable gap piece visible in one of the pics, held down by two cap head screws. Looks like it would extend the permanent gap by 3 or 4 inches, enough for most model jobs. My advice would be to not remove that gap piece unless you absolutely have to. They can be a bear to get to sit back in place properly.

DRO? Forget about it. Not needed on a lathe. Don't make the beginner mistake of imagining that a nice digital read out will let you dial in exactly the number to magically cut the job to the exact size you want first time every time. All the same procedures and cautions are needed as when using the cross slide dial. So you might as well use the cross slide dial.

She looks pretty tidy in the pics. Nice machine.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I see it now.

[Anonymous]

I would echo Hopper's comment on gap pieces. I spent ages chasing a taper turning issue on my lathe after I removed, and then replaced, the gap piece for the first time. Turned out that I hadn't replaced the gap piece according to the manufacturers instructions.

The Ainjest attachment looks to be imperial, so i assume the lathe is imperial? I have an Ainjest attachment on my lathe and it makes screwcutting imperial threads a doddle. Especially internal and blind threads which can be cut at several hundred rpm. But it doesn't work for metric threads so I cut those the old way without disconnecting the saddle half nuts.

Andrew

[Taf_PembsParticipant @taf_pembs]

I'm pretty sure from pics it is an imperial lathe but she has the full screw cutting gearbox looking at the pics so with standard transfer gears will cut pretty much a full range of imperial and metric threads.

There is a single gear change option to fit a 42t gearbox drive gear in order to cut 4, 5 & 6mm pitch thread (and the similar pitched imperial) but being an imperial machine you have to keep the half nut engaged for all metric threads and reverse the lathe to reset tool.

[Taf_PembsParticipant @taf_pembs]

Oh and another +1 for leaving the gap in place unless have to remove, can be quite time consuming to get back right.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

I didn't notice the Ainjest attachment on the carriage before. Totally awesome!

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

Posted by Taf_Pembs on 13/06/2023 07:04:08:

Is there the usual stuff that comes wit them – a 4 jaw chuck, face plate, drive dog, fixed and traveling steady?

Edited By Taf_Pembs on 13/06/2023 07:08:29

It does come with a 3 and 4 jaw chuck and some other tooling. I will get further details on what it comes with later today. I am hoping there is also a taper turning attachment with it too. One thing I do know is that it comes with a travelling steady.

Not sure where I said I want to work in metric? Most of the work I will be doing will be using imperial (Freedom units as the Americans say). I am sure I will find out how/if I can cut metric threads when the time comes

I will be tracking down manuals for the machine and the Ainjest attachment so I can learn about them a bit more. The gap bed won't be needed regularly but it will be something I use, knowing how to fit and remove that properly will be helpful.

The biggest thing for me (and something I look forward to) will be learning how to operate it.

[Taf_PembsParticipant @taf_pembs]

I have a scanned copy of the student manual, same as the master essentially bar a few dimensions. Mine is the 6 1/2 inch as were a lot of the later students I believe, I'll try and message it to you.

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

Direct messages have been sent/replied to .

This community is great!

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Either would probably suit your purposes, but bear in mind.

The Colchester should be a good machine. If ex college will be relatively unworn, but might well bear trhe marks of careless / negligent use.

Being Job's comforter, If you need extras, (missing changewheels, steadies, chucks, spares ) they might be hard to find. But folk on here would point you in the right direction, and advise if any fine tuning / repairs are needed.

Mist porobably with Imperial leadscrews and dials.

The Chester Craftsman is a new machine, presumably?

It is a genericTtaiwanese design (In uk also seen as a WARCO BH600, or more rarely as an EngineersToolRoom BL12-24., and elswhere under a number of aliases. ) Weights 300 Kg.

Most likely to have Metric leadscrews and dials (Might be dual dialled like my ETR BL12-24. )

After 20 years, still happy with mine!

Like all oriental machines, even new, may well benefit from careful checking and setting up

(I have seen a new small Chinese lathe, out of the box with the tailstock 0.022" ( 0.5 + mm  )  out of line, but fairly easily rectifiable)

As a new machine, it will probably come well equipped, and certainly with a warranty, (Useful if there are any problems ) Being a current machine, spares and accessories should be available.

(Despite being basically a Metric machine, the Spindle thread is 2.125" x 8 tpi Whit form. The chucks are retained by "dogs" for safe reverse running. )

You make your choice and pays your money , ultimately

HTH

Howard  Smoley's GRRR!

Edited By Howard Lewis on 13/06/2023 12:23:31

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