New Blocks on the Block

[Tony JeffreeParticipant @tonyjeffree56510]

Posted by John Stevenson on 18/11/2011 09:21:29:

JESUS H CHRIST ON A PUSH BIKE

 

John –

 

When 2 or 3 model engineers are gathered together, they shal find something to whine about. Ignore them – they are just talking blocks…

 

Regards,

Tony

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Diane Carney on 16/11/2011 23:38:41:

The whole point of the forum is to exchange ideas and information, is it not?. Recommending a product is perfectly acceptable. Spam is not. If the net benefits to the purveyor of the said product are sufficient to allow him buy a bag of expensive chips – then it’s OK. Two bags? … hmmm, we would have to look into it.

 

Diane

Hi Diane,

I think some clarification is needed here. I presume you mean that “the benefit to ARC of the said product are sufficient to allow ARC to buy JS a bag of expensive chips” is a little inaccurate. JS has a very good chippy near his house, and the real fact is that he buys me – ARCs representative the bags of chips! Spam or fish not allowed as I am a strict vegitarian. BTW the pound I owe JS is shown in the advert picture of the blocks.

Ketan.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

History: About a year ago, when JS was buying me another bag of expensive chips from his local chippy he asked me to consider having these blocks made.
Getting a new product made – simple or complicated, is an expensive and time consuming exercise.
After investing the money, there is still the risk of “will the factory make it right” and more importantly – “will it sell”?
For his efforts, JS has been given payment as a sub-contractor for his time for making the samples and the drawings, and he has bought ME a bag of chips.
In return for the bag of chips, and in recognition for his contribution (so that I can blame him if it went wrong), I named them the product Stevensons blocks.
There will be more things coming with the Stevensons name in front (again, to try and cover my commercial back side).
Keeping all of the above in mind, YES I am very grateful to JS for this idea, and I am very grateful that Bogs has brought it to many peoples attention.
If you wish, you CAN call THIS a blatent advert, as I am not hiding behind anyones name or ghost. Ketan at ARC.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

This is no different to putting it in the magazines as trade topics etc.

It is a useful product that performs a useful function.

regards David

 

 

[Roger WoollettParticipant @rogerwoollett53105]

MichaelG finds metric cap heads too big. I find that stainless screws have heads that are smaller and neater. They may not be up to his exacting standards but they might be worth looking at.

Roger Woollett

[S.D.L.Participant @s-d-l]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 18/11/2011 11:46:23:
Steve [S.D.L.]

“Why would anyone …”
.

If you can let me know of anywhere that I can obtain metric series, high tensile caphead screws; with small diameter heads and fine tolerances, then I shall happily withdraw my suggestion.

MichaelG.

 

As far as I can tell the head dia on 1/4 UNC/UNF cap heads is .375″ and a M6 is 10mm about .393″. I know many claim size matters, but does a18 thou (0.5mm) difference make much difference?

 

So I cant see anyone making then in imperial sizes.

 

Steve Larner

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

If you have problems with the head size then just turn them down to a Dia that suits, simples.

 

J

 

PS Ketan did JS mention that his local chippy cook their chips in Beef Dripping

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

John S. and Roger W.
Thanks for the update … it’s a good job I have some old capheads in stock
I take your point; and, from a business perspective, I’m sure you are right.

Steve [S.D.L.]
Surely your measurements support my point. … Don’t forget that 1/4″ is 6.35mm.
Just to humour me: Try drawing an overlay, at [say] 10x life size, of a 1/4″ UNF and an M6 … each in their standard clearance holes. … It’s the relative proportion that matters.

I won’t be labouring this any further.

Many thanks to John S. and Ketan Swali, for what looks like an excellent product at a realistic price.

MichaelG.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by JasonB on 18/11/2011 16:41:39:

 

PS Ketan did JS mention that his local chippy cook their chips in Beef Dripping

Haha, I know it was veg.oil….even though the fish…sausages etc. might/were cooked in it. you cant taste the foreign matter when the chips are nice and hot….so it doesnt really matter.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

The only issue I have with the imperial form request is commercial. If we would have made them with imprerial measures for thread and block sizes, we ran the risk of them being compared with the competitors/ebay imports. then you would also have the issue of “I can get it cheaper from Hong Kong brigade”….by cheating the U.K. tax system….not pay duty/vat U.K. overheads etc…..and there will always be the person who can get it cheaper in U.S.A…….failing to point out that the prices stated there are excluding tax most of the time….so they want you to always think that we live in so called “rip-off” Britain. Pointless to get involved in this kind of commercial talk. It does cost me a lot more to have these especially made, but atleast I do not have to deal with commercial BS.

 

Secondly, we are starting to realise that demand from our customer base is growing towards the metric side. I am not saying that imperial is wrong, but commercially, I need sales, so for the time being, we will continue with the metric.

 

Thanks, Ketan at ARC.

[BogstandardParticipant @bogstandard]

What in the world are you lot arguing over, surely not what type of thread was used and the size of the heads?

 

Talk about a load of prats. Didn’t you read my article, well you must have done if you brought up the point.

 

The stainless cap screws have about the largest head that is generally available on a screw this size, and I raised the point that although close, there were no issues of them hitting each other or overhanging the edges. IMHO, John had done his measuring spot on.

 

I will just say one thing, I raised this post to maybe help people, nothing more.

But there are just too many know it alls who just want to cause trouble and strife just for the sake of putting words on a page. Have you nothing better to do?

If I raised a post stating that most text in these posts is black, some prat would pipe up and argue over it.

 

From now on, you will have to search the web yourselves to find out about things like these blocks. It just isn’t worth my trouble if this is what happens every time.

 

Bogs

[StovepipeParticipant @stovepipe]

Bogs,

Some of us are VERY appreciative of your advising us about the existence of these blocks.

 

Sadly, there are those who will always argue about how many elephants can dance on a socket head.

 

If something is advertised on TV or on a web site, that brings it to our notice, and buying it is optional. Mentioning it on a thread is no different, so for crissake lets have no more discussion about alleged plugs or otherwise. I for one am p****d off with these storms in a G cup. (should be T cup, but they are not currently making them in that size).

 

Dennis

[modeng2000Participant @modeng2000]

I would just like to say that if it was not for you John, I wouldn’t have known about these useful blocks. So thanks very much and don’t be put off by the reaction of some folk on here.

 

John

[Billy MillsParticipant @billymills]

Calm down dear Bogs, for every silly poster there are a load more people who do read and learn from others. It would be tragic if those who can’t see the wood for the trees burn down the forest. Don’t let them win. Stick to your guns/lathe/mill and carry on!

 

Billy.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

May I add my voice to those saying thankyou for the info about these blocks, and to ignore the nitpickers etc.

 

For myself, I have seen some useful ideas from one or other of the two John’s (sorry I don’t know which) and allthough I haven’t progressed with them, they are stored away mentally for future use – as is this idea.

 

Regards, and please keep posting.

 

Peter G. Shaw

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Bogs,

I too would like to add my support for pointing out useful products. My only complaint is that you did not post the information a few days earlier so I could have added a set of these blocks to an order I placed on Monday.

 

Les

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Stovepipe on 18/11/2011 19:32:05:

I for one am p****d off with these storms in a G cup. (should be T cup, but they are not currently making them in that size).

 

Dennis

 

 

Thank Christ for that, you wouldn’t get many of them to a pound [ or should it be kilo ? ]

 

John S.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I have apparently offended several posters … by trying to move the discussion towards Engineering.

Thanks to John Stevenson and Ketan Swali, who have both provided well-reasoned replies to my original post.

Unfortunately however; it is obvious from other respones, that I do not belong here.

MichaelG.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Bogs, please don’t get put off posting ideas or new items that you have knowledge of, just because of a few who can’t appreciate something that many others will find useful and even indispensable. I myself have found many of the links and ideas that you have posted very interesting and useful.

I’ve been in maintenance engineering for the most of my 40 years plus, working life, and I’m still learning new ways and new types of tools. Like many I may not have noticed these blocks without you bringing them to our attention, and while I have no immediate use for them, they will no doubt be some in my kit in the future. If others don’t like them or criticize the design or the type of fasteners used, they don’t have to buy them, do they. As a late cousin of mine always said as long as I can remember, “every day is a school day”

 

Regards Nick.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 18/11/2011 20:38:53:

[ Quote 1 ] I have apparently offended several posters … by trying to move the discussion towards Engineering.

[ Quote 2 ] Thanks to John Stevenson and Ketan Swali, who have both provided well-reasoned replies to my original post.

[ Quote 3 ] Unfortunately however; it is obvious from other responses, that I do not belong here.

MichaelG.

 

 

Quote 1 Good.

 

Quote 2 Thank you.

 

Quote 3 Don’t let it worry you, grow a thicker skin [ very handy winters here ] and remember as the world moves on these members of the flat earth society will gradually fall off the edge.

 

John S.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Perhaps we all need to make more use of the smileys?

 

One person’s attempt at a constructive contribution seems to be another’s whinge. And that has happened six or seven times in this discussion.

 

Personally I don’t give a flying ,ahem, squirrel, what people think of me, but I do care if I upset someone with my ramblings. Unfortunately the reaction to any misunderstood comment in this forum seems to be a sort of feeding frenzy, sometimes apparently carried out without taking the time to properly read the original comments.

 

Now it’s possible we have all had a collective empathy bypass, but I bet if we all met face to face this would have been a light hearted and cheerful, if robust, debate on the merit of the blocks.

I suspect we are mostly gentlemen of at least middle age. PLEASE can start acting like gentlemen and leave the flame wars to the teenagers – who are so much better at that sort of thing?

 

Neil

 

THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AIMED AT ANY ONE PERSON OR INTENDED AS A RESPONSE TO ANY ONE MESSAGE. ITS TO THE LOT OF US AND A COMMENT ON ALL OUR COMMENTS.

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

This post now stretches to 4 pages!!

 

I think it is well past the time when this thread was locked and the matter put to bed.

 

Once again, thanks to John S and Ketan for the product and Bogs for bringing it to our attention in the first place.

 

Graeme (going to the workshop to tinker with my engines!)

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Just a little update:

Yesterday, a customer brought up the hardness issue of the blocks to my attention. I referred this to the engineers at the production factory.

The blocks have been heat treated to HRC25-HRC28, which is at the low end of the hardening process. The engineers have taken this decision as it allows the end user to make any changes to the blocks as they so wish.

We made a mistake by referring to them as hardened, rather than toughened. This has now been rectified on our website, however, the advert which appears in MEW 184 still incorrectly states hardened.
For all customer who are ordering with effect from 23rd November 2011 over the phone, we are clarifying this point pre-sale. Our selling prices remain the same.

We apologise to all customers who have purchased this item prior to 23rd November with the understanding that they are hardened to normal “rock hard” treatment to be found with traditional 1-2-3 blocks.
In this respect, if anyone wishes to return their blocks due to this misunderstanding, we are happy to accept their return, and we will pay for return carriage costs to us.
If you wish to do this, please call us first to enable us to log and agree to the return, along with carriage costs.

We apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused effected customers.

 

Ketan at ARC

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Ketan

Thank you for the update regarding hardness.

A very civil way to conduct business.
… Well done Sir.

MichaelG

[BubbleParticipant @bubble]

Hello all

 

re. comments on imperial allen cap screws:

 

Slightly off topic, but when I was a railway research engineer (before I escaped into retirement) we found that imperial allen (cap) screw heads were too small in diameter, in relation to the screw thread size, to achieve the design load capacity of the fastener, when used in components or assemblies that were not through hardened.

 

The area under the head, in contact with the clamped surface, was too small, and the compressive stress( clamp load divided by contact area) exceeded the compressive yield strength of the material forming the clamped component.

 

This resulted in deformation of the fastener seating when the correct tightening torque was applied.

 

This resulted in a loss in fastener preload, which at best allowed the fastener to loosen in service, and at worst resulted in fatigue failure of the fastener.

 

This also applied to case-hardened components.

 

We had much less trouble with metric fasteners.

 

Jim

[Author]

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