need a bullgear for myford ml4 lathe

[John Robinson 9Participant @johnrobinson9]

Hi all I'm new to this so here goes, I have a Myford ml4 lathe that i am renovating. As you can imagine I am picking up as sorts of useful information in the forums, the only problem I am having at present is sourcing a bull gear (bull wheel) not sure of correct name. Appreciate any help thanks.

[John Robinson 9Participant @johnrobinson9]

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

How bad is it? One or two teeth can be brazed up

It's possible to cut all the teeth off if you can find any matching gear (DP # of teeth and pressure angle), which needs the centre cutting out leaving you with a gear ring which you then fix to the bull gear centre.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Have you tried Myford? They advertise a lot on ebay, and would be worth googling.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

or vintage – lathes. com

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

Posted by old mart on 01/01/2021 22:03:09:

Have you tried Myford? They advertise a lot on ebay, and would be worth googling.

No chance! I have a letter from Myford to my father in the late 1960s explaining that they no longer held spares for the ML4, which had been out of production for several decades. That was the original Myford, not the present firm which bought the rights to the name when the old firm went bust.

George B.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

A letter dating from the 60's from a firm that went bust is no valid reason for not trying the present company. They sell lots of older Myford parts, and who knows what they might have now.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

The company does NOT stock spares for the old ML 1-4. Think you must be still on a high from New Year!

Andrew.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

As per Dave, if it has broken teeth. But also, a row of grub screws, filed to profile, might be better than a worn second hand item. Got a picture of the damage?

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Posted by Andrew Tinsley on 02/01/2021 15:34:49:

The company does NOT stock spares for the old ML 1-4. Think you must be still on a high from New Year!

Andrew.

So why didn't you say that in the first placeinstead of referring to a letter over 50 years old? You must be a DH.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Hello Old Mart,

It wasn't me that talked about a 50 year old letter. Just letting people know that the new Myford's don't stock parts for the ML 1-4 range.

I don't know of any company that would have spares for a product discontinued maybe 75 years ago, do you?

Andrew.

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

I'm so glad this is a forum where people are polite and courteous to each other, unlike some of the others I have read about…

George B.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Please keep the personal attacks out of the Forum.

[DiogenesIIParticipant @diogenesii]

Posted by Dave Halford on 01/01/2021 20:58:34:

How bad is it? One or two teeth can be brazed up

It's possible to cut all the teeth off if you can find any matching gear (DP # of teeth and pressure angle), which needs the centre cutting out leaving you with a gear ring which you then fix to the bull gear centre.

Myford used changewheels for the backgear cluster on these, so form will be the same – and the ML4 changewheels I have mesh with those of the 7 series, so 20DP 14.5PA? ..IIRC..

What was the tooth-count of the bullgear?

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Have a look at Classifieds on here.

Brian

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

Andrew – you ask about companies making spares for obsolete 75 year old machines. Well, last year I was able to buy from Lea Francis Ltd a wide range of spares – engine, gearbox, half-shafts, etc – for my Lea Francis car dating from 1928. And in almost every case, the bits fitted and worked. The odd case needed oil-feed holes added, so nothing is ever perfect. But that is years longer than 75 years. Time for a retraction, perhaps?

Cheers, Tim

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Availability of spares varies from Company to Company, depending on their policy.

Caterpillar used to claim that they could supply spares for even the oldest machines, dating back to 1910 or so.

Certainly, they have, or had, a HUGE plant simply for spare parts, from the smallest to the largest.

At Perkins, when an engine went out of production, it was normal to make / buy in an "All Time Requirement" based on the expected useage over the next ten years. In some cases, It is still possible to obtain genuine parts as "Old New Stock" in original packaging that someone has hoarded over the years.

It is amazing what can be found at the back of some workshops!

But Brian Wood seems to have exactly what you require.

Howard

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I believe that the gear has 65 teeth (please confirm that) and if the diameter was measured, there is just a chance that one of the changewheels made by Myford could match and have a new boss made . It might not be quite the same thickness, but wouldn't have to carry much power

There are people advertising gears made to pattern, I have no idea how expensive they are.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Hello Tim,

That is quite interesting! Is the company the original Lea Francis, or some company set up to make spares? A friend of mine has a 1926 Bentley and there is a company that makes spares for that vintage, new engines, gearboxes etc. I think the big difference is that there is a demand for spares, for cars like this and there are people prepared to pay extremely high prices for them, hence it is an economic proposition.

Spares for ML1-4 lathes would not have a very large market and owners of such lathes would not be prepared to pay the necessary prices to make such an operation an economic one. The exception being people like Brian Wood, who can make a batch, effectively a very welcome cottage industry! A commercial firm could not possibly survive catering for such a market

Andrew.

Edited By Andrew Tinsley on 03/01/2021 14:59:22

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by Andrew Tinsley on 02/01/2021 21:34:24:

Hello Old Mart,

It wasn't me that talked about a 50 year old letter. Just letting people know that the new Myford's don't stock parts for the ML 1-4 range.

I don't know of any company that would have spares for a product discontinued maybe 75 years ago, do you?

Andrew.

25 years ago I was involved in consultancy provided to a manufacturer of military uniforms, badges and regalia and one requirement was to incorporate details of all the items (that they still had records of) from their 350 year history onto the new IT manufacturing and sales system.

We withdrew from the contract in the end, with some relief!

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

What about this?

**LINK**

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

The gear would not have to be made from the original cast iron, unhardened steel, or even aluminium would work. The bull gear on the Atlas 12 x 24 we are working on at the museum is made of zamak, a zinc alloy like the mazak we have here in Blighty.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Hello Tim,

Just looked up Lea Francis on Wicki. As I thought the modern company was founded by Barry Price, in the 1980s to provide spares for the old Lea Francis cars. Somewhat similar to the company supplying Bentley spares for the pre RR Bentleys.

Hardly the same as a company in continuous production, supplying spares for a product which ceased manufacture 75 years ago..

Andrew.

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

I'm here to confess to a less than perfect memory, though the main substance of my post about Myford correspondence was correct. I dug out Dad's old paperwork and found that they had a larger range of spares than I remembered, though they warned that they were only available 'subject to being unsold at the time your order is received' which pretty much proves that they were no longer manufacturing them but only selling existing stock.

The 65 tooth backgear, 1" bore, was available for 16/9d, the 30 tooth backgear, also 1" bore, was a mere 9/= .

Given that (as far as I know) all remaining Myford stock was auctioned off when the original firm closed, well, good luck to anybody who is considering asking the present owners of the name for ML4 spares.

I've copied the letter and associated price lists and put them in my album for anybody who wants to read further.

Anyway; back to the original post. John, I hope that you have been able to sort something out, and I'm sorry that my post led to the thread being derailed somewhat. If you need more help, keep asking.

George B.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

That would seem to confirm my 65 tooth tooth bull gear. If the diameter of the damaged one is posted, then a possible donor gear might be possible.

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