Mystery Insert

[Terry ChandlerParticipant @terrychandler21294]

No matter how much I search the web, these inserts escape me. Can anyone help me identify them?

[Terry ChandlerParticipant @terrychandler21294]

Swiss jig boring tool

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Try CCGT060202

Emgee

[Terry ChandlerParticipant @terrychandler21294]

Similar, thanks.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Are you certain of the 80 deg angle as "B" covers a parallelogram insert with an 82deg angle. see chart

[Terry ChandlerParticipant @terrychandler21294]

With my eyesight, i guess it could be 82 (a good excuse for me to buy a vernier protractor, let's see if I can't sneak that past the financial director/wife). It is certainly nearer 80 than 75 and as I move the insert away from 80 degrees towards 82, I can start to see light from a torch behind, not entirely accurate I confess. I could do with a shadowgraph or even a toolmakers microscope.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Terry Chandler on 05/08/2021 13:20:32:

[…]

I could do with a shadowgraph or even a toolmakers microscope.

.

Or a flat-bed scanner

… but please don’t let that deter you from buying shiny toys

MichaelG.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Could it be a smaller APKT, or APMT insert, similar to but smaller than those used in inserted tooth Shell Mills?

Howard

[Terry ChandlerParticipant @terrychandler21294]

I thought about those and have a Stellram tool that uses ADKX inserts and it looks close but…(I admit this is a RH insert)

[DC31kParticipant @dc31k]

What is the purpose of the tool? It looks to me like a boring bar that goes in a Wohlhaupter-type head.

Do you know the manufacturer? It is possible that it is a non-ISO insert, so determining the maker of the tool would seem like your first step on the road to success.

[Terry ChandlerParticipant @terrychandler21294]

Yes, you're exactly right, it was one of two tools (boring bars) which accompanied a Kaiser Piccolo 400 boring and facing head. The tools shown were not made by Kaiser however, the smaller one has CO stamped on it with the word "swiss" and the part number 80602, it has a finely ground 8mm shank and fits snugly in a 10-8mm reduction sleeve supplied with the Kaiser Head. I suspect these boring bars were made by SIP but I've yet to find any confirmation of that.

A quick glance at fleabay shows a few CO Swiss boring bars for sale but none with carbide inserts.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

There are many proprietry sizes and shapes of insert which will only fit that manufacturers toolholders.

[Terry ChandlerParticipant @terrychandler21294]

Unfortunately, I'm down to the last two inserts after having bored some badly chilled cast iron and I suspect I'll have to retire the tools, I have a sneaking suspicion that you're right about them being "manufacturer unique".

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

You should check whether the seat could be modified to accept a similar, but more easily available insert. It would need a small solid carbide endmill.

[Terry ChandlerParticipant @terrychandler21294]

Now, modifying the seat may be a little beyond my capacity so I'll probably end up looking for a similar tool which uses standard ISO available inserts like the CCGT. It's a real shame because the Swiss made tooling is, in my opinion the best for quality and precision, I do hope I have't hit a forum nerve by expressing that opinion.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Holders for TCMT are quite easy to come by and although they have 1/2" or 12mm shanks the head is likely to be no bigger than the one you show in the first image so will fit down the same size hole mine will happily go down a 12mm hole. You can also get CCMT ones but head may not be any smaller.

[Terry ChandlerParticipant @terrychandler21294]

I hadn't considered TCMT but thanks for that insight. I've seen a set of 10mm shank boring bars FP BJ10B (my boring head takes 10mm tooling) which seem to be, on the face of it, good quality tools from Taiwan. Does anyone have any feedback on these? In all honesty, I've wasted some money on tools over the years but these might seem to be worthy of my hard earned cash.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Hi, As has been said, there is the possibility of altering the holder to take a different insert. One way would be to use an old insert as the electrode and spark erode a new pocket for an easily obtained insert. or fashion from brass or copper the shape of the new tnsert and erode. Just a thought. Noel.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

A 10mm shank right handed lathe boring bar cut to the required length would be an option, there will be flats top and bottom which might be a problem. If the flats are at the wrong angle, a 12mm bar with the shank turned down to 10mm might be the answer. Tomorrow, I could measure a 12mm bar to see what the measurement across the flats is.

Edited By old mart on 06/08/2021 19:43:00

[Terry ChandlerParticipant @terrychandler21294]

You're right, I'll try the cut down lathe boring bar first, they're cheap enough.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Captain Obvious question but have you looked at milling cutter inserts as well as lathe and boring bar ones?

Clive

[Terry ChandlerParticipant @terrychandler21294]

I've been studying insert catalogues on the net for ages it seems with no luck. Since these tools are from a different generation, I suspect the information died with paper (unless the original catalogues were scanned and digitised).

[Terry ChandlerParticipant @terrychandler21294]

Just thought I'd conclude this thread as I have found some of the unique inserts, from Ricardo.ch which is I suppose, a Swiss version of ebay. Thanks to all who helped me along. Are these the last of their kind…

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Now you have a stock of them, keep the blunt ones as they look like they could be resharpened easily with a diamond lap.

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