Myford Super 7 spanner sizes

[StephenSParticipant @stephens]

Hi all,

Can anyone help me with the specific BSW or BSF spanner sizes that would have come with a Myford Super 7 that is approx 40 years old?

Or any other spanners that would be needed (eg BA)?

Many thanks,
Stephen S.

[StephenSParticipant @stephens]

Spanner sizes wanted please

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

There are BA sizes on the S7 e.g the oilers are all 2BA. There are also i think whitworth too. I have a stack of old spanners & just go for what fits. Never bothered to look at what size they were. My little Bahco adjustable fits everything.

Steve.

Edited By Steviegtr on 07/04/2021 00:24:54

[T.BParticipant @t-b-2]

2BA , 1/4" BSF and 7/16" BSF would be a good start.

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

If I remember correctly, you need to bear in mind that not all BSF/BSW spanner sizes refer to the thread size as you might expect. Something to do with reducing the hex size to save material during WW2.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The Myford 7 Series was introduced in 1947, so being post War would, most likely, use the later, smaller BSW and BSF hexagon sizes.

Spanner likely to see most use is the 7/16 BSF on the Toolpost.

A 2 BA one for the locknuts on the gib adjusters, unless the nuts are oversize.

Others are unlikeley to see much wear, unless you are planning a complete strip down and rebuild.

A set of Imperial Allen keys will be useful.

If you are, just be sure of what is involved before upsetting any adjustments.

Howard

[JAParticipant @ja]

Stephen

My ten year old Myford came with two open ended spanners – 3/16W & 1/4W, 5/16W & 3/8W – and two Allen keys – 3/16AF and 5/32AF. Other than an open ended 2BA spanner these are all I have needed. The same goes, if my memory serves me well, for my earlier Super 7 Myford (the one with the flooded headstock bearing).

JA

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

One caveat: I have found that some of the whitworth spanners sold new on well known sites are rather loose in the fit on the nuts. The open ends seem to be made oversize, while the rings are not a series of 6 flats, or 12 half-flats, but a ring of rounded lumps. These tend to wear the heads – especially of adjusters as used on machines – much more rapidly than 'proper' flats. Combine this with the too slack fit to start with and it can be very disappointing.

The answer – look for used Whitworth spanners on the same sites, and then look for reliable makes, such as:
Britool, Gedore, Stahlwille, Blue point, Elora, etc. Look closely at the pictures, and avoid anything (whatever the make) which shows serious wear, hammer marks, and such signs of abuse. Many spanners hang in sheds for years, and hardly get used – so a bit of surface rust should not put you off, as long as the signs of abuse are missing.

Hope this helps

Cheers, Tim

[Robert ButlerParticipant @robertbutler92161]

And use ring spanners where ever possible.

Robert Butler

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Note though that some of the accessories now sold appear to use fastenings to ISO-Somewhere-near, with a 17mm spanner fitting one or two of those on mine – and these were bought new.

Most of the originals though are BSF/BSW.

[John PurdyParticipant @johnpurdy78347]

As well as the ones mentioned by JA my Myford (1977) came with a single ended 3/8 A/F spanner for use on the lock screws on the cross slide to retain the top slide. My two double ended Whitworth spanners are "Snail Brand".

John

Edited By John Purdy on 08/04/2021 17:34:05

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Tim Stevens on 07/04/2021 21:12:36:

[…]

while the rings are not a series of 6 flats, or 12 half-flats, but a ring of rounded lumps. These tend to wear the heads – especially of adjusters as used on machines – much more rapidly than 'proper' flats. Combine this with the too slack fit to start with and it can be very disappointing.

 

.

That’s interesting, Tim

… it seems to completely contradict the story that Snap-on tells about ‘Flank Drive’

MichaelG.

.

Ref. https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search?q=pn%3DUS3273430A

[click the vertical column of three dots, at upper-right of the page, to find the download option]

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 08/04/2021 17:53:19

[Peter SansomParticipant @petersansom44767]

Just look for Ring Open End spanners from a good brand. A set comprising 2BA and 1/4"BS to 7/16"BS.

The largest 2 Nuts are the Lead Screw Hand wheel nut and the Tail stock nut.

Peter

[Robert ButlerParticipant @robertbutler92161]

If you are looking for Ring Open End spanners try instead for Combination spanners, ring at one end open ended at the other, Each spanner only fits one size.

Robert Butler

PS the ex Myford fitter who serviced my lathe advised Myford used the cheapest spanner sets available

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

My S7, new in ?1971?, came with the 2 big double open ended spanners mentioned above and 2 small single open ended spanners, one fits topside locking screws, cant remember what the other was for, maybe banjo locking screws. Still need 2BA to fit Oilers and Allen keys for all the skt hds. L/S Brkts held by 2BA skt hds, e.g. A C – spanner was also in the kit to adjust the mandrel bearing.

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Tim,

That sounds like another brainless modern idea to save on production costs and bugger the result. Complete trash.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Robert Butler on 09/04/2021 23:08:47:

PS the ex Myford fitter who serviced my lathe advised Myford used the cheapest spanner sets available

Yes but in those days the cheapest spanners were still made in Britain and still quite reasonable quality for home use. They must have churned out millions of Snail brand and King Dick, Vincent etc spanners over the years so costs were low. But they used good steel and good dies to make them. Different story with today's cheapest cheese-metal spanners.

I round up handfuls of good old BS spanners for peanuts whenever I am at garage sales and flea markets etc. The supply will run out one day so I figure I might as well keep them out of the hands of the hoarders. So I have a full set for each Brit motorbike and lathe in the shed.

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

Myford used the cheap end of the market black as forged UK made spanners as they knew that their lathes were good and did not need frequent adjustment so these spanners would not see much use.

[Matt HarringtonParticipant @mattharrington87221]

As Steve says, my 'go to' spanner for day to day stuff is a quality Bahco adjustable.

Matt

[egaParticipant @ega]

Did anyone mention the square socket wrench needed for the standard Super 7 topslide clamp screws?

I long ago changed mine for hex socket screws: easier to access with a ball-ended driver and less temptation to overtighten.

I think that one reason folk reach for the inherently inferior shifting spanner is the difficulty in selecting the right conventional tool from a bunch of others but colour-coding would solve that problem.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Hopper on 10/04/2021 03:11:13:

Posted by Robert Butler on 09/04/2021 23:08:47:

PS the ex Myford fitter who serviced my lathe advised Myford used the cheapest spanner sets available

Yes but in those days the cheapest spanners were still made in Britain and still quite reasonable quality for home use. They must have churned out millions of Snail brand and King Dick, Vincent etc spanners over the years so costs were low. But they used good steel and good dies to make them. Different story with today's cheapest cheese-metal spanners.

I round up handfuls of good old BS spanners for peanuts whenever I am at garage sales and flea markets etc. The supply will run out one day so I figure I might as well keep them out of the hands of the hoarders. So I have a full set for each Brit motorbike and lathe in the shed.

Isn't it odd Model Engineers are the only people in the world who believe steel made 60 years ago is better than anything produced today? It's not my experience. When I bought my first socket-set, an elderly chap intervened to explain Japanese tools were rubbish and because it wouldn't last I should spend 3 times more on a British set. Fifty years later the Japanese set is fine (and is now recognised as a reputable Brand!) He was wrong!

In the last 3 years the Chinese made more steel than the British steel industry produced throughout their entire history. It is an enormous quantity of steel and although some of it might be below par, in general it's closer to specification than historic steels. Not paddy farmers stirring old bicycles into a pot, the production is from large modern steelworks using the world's most advanced processes.

Too many British firms after WW2 believed their own propaganda. Rather than accept the need to change and modernise, they tried to convince customers their over-priced products were 'quality' and appealed to our patriotism. Unfortunately, patriotism cuts no ice in export markets. Abroad, British goods came to be associated with average quality and high-prices. At home, people gradually realised they were paying over the odds for stuff that was just expensive.

I suggest we rose-tint the past as we grow older! The past was better because I was young, not because things were done properly then. Now retired, I remember the good bits and expunge the less creditable episodes! Spanners are an example: lasted jolly well most them, but is it due to them being solid, lightly used and kept indoors or ' they used good steel and good dies to make them'. If spanners were wonderful, why did UK makers churn out millions of third rate steel cars? Nice spanner, shame about the car?

I have a GPO tool roll full of well-made British screwdrivers and a contemporary British screwdriver that bends! It's rubbish. Nothing to do with steel, or when and where the screw-drivers were made. The bendy example is too cheap whereas the GPO bought the best tools available at the time, unaffordable for amateur purposes. Important to compare like with like before jumping to conclusions.

Always dangerous to believe your own propaganda. Faced with the need to compete in a rapidly changing world, looking to the obsolete methods of the past is unlikely to work for industry today, no matter how effective they once were. Time flies. It's what customers want tomorrow that matters. There's no place for small 'c' conservatism in manufacturing: such thinking does too much damage.

Dave

[StephenSParticipant @stephens]

Thanks for all your help – I have the info I needed now.

Stephen S.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

SillyOldDuffer,

You promulgate this idea of poor British manufacture so often – and at great length – at every possible occasion.

I frankly find your assessment as insulting to the quality of the products made in Britain around the 1950-70 period.

Yes, home manufacturing has greatly declined, but not because of low quality generally. Too good was more like it. Too many cheap imports ‘just’ about coped with light work and not much more. I have ‘spiralled’ 1/2” drive extensions on more than one occasion, destroyed many sockets over the years and even bent breaker bars (without a scaffold pipe extension).

People bought cheap, not high quality. I bought my Britool socket set second-hand from a farm auction some 30 years ago and they have not suffered any of the faults reported above. 25 years ago I would not dream of buying another tool by rolson, as experience had told me they were ‘use once’ jobbies for light duty users only. They were rubbish. Likely improved greatly now, but there is still a lot of ‘cheap tat’ on the market.

Much imported steel was used for making cars which rotted away. Bought for cheapness. The engines used to fall out of alfa romeos, did they not? Fiats rusted away quite quickly? The british car industry needed to follow the trends (because they were using out-dated methods of car building and not investing in a future).

My father had a smaller set of sockets than my much larger (but incomplete) set. I still use some of those for filling the spaces in my set. Made in GB, as well. My later 3/4” socket set, made in Japan, has stood the test of time, but I don’t stress those as much as the 1/2” sets.

I’m like, and agree with, Hopper – better to source sockets and spanners at car boot sales where one can be selective on the make. I only select britool sockets from the collections. And I do know that Britool is no longer made in Britain.

I still have the set of ring spanners I bought in the 1960s for maintaining my Honda motorcycles – even though they are spread around my toolboxes these days. A lot of my tools have been used to their usual limit (and likely a bit in excess) in the past and all the good ones have proven their worth. Mostly those made in the UK a long time ago.

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by not done it yet on 10/04/2021 14:05:26:

I’m like, and agree with, Hopper – better to source sockets and spanners at car boot sales where one can be selective on the make. I only select britool sockets from the collections. And I do know that Britool is no longer made in Britain.

I still have the set of ring spanners I bought in the 1960s for maintaining my Honda motorcycles – even though they are spread around my toolboxes these days. A lot of my tools have been used to their usual limit (and likely a bit in excess) in the past and all the good ones have proven their worth. Mostly those made in the UK a long time ago.

I am sorry but in my personal opinion, while once the brand guaranteed the quality, nowadays with famous names being applied to cheap foreign produced tools, genuine brands producing cheaper tools just to remain competitive and outright fakes, this may not always be true.

Tomorrow is my birthday and yesterday I received my first Bus Pass. So I don't need to pay for tools that would need to last through a career in engineering from apprentice onwards – I need to buy tools and equipment that will do the job for an amateur engineer working in his garage for as long as I want them to do. Provided they are accurate for my needs and last long enough I am happy buying imported tools.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Nick,

Exactly!! The old good named tools are often much more than just adequate – they will last a lifetime. Mine, and Hopper’s, point is that those good reliable items are now quite readily available at flea markets and boot sales – at knock-down prices.

A good tin box devoid of most sockets might fetch a pound or two at one auction site I attend occasionally. Good quality sockets might be 20-40p each at flea markets and car boot sales. Sometimes less.

It does not take so long to collect together a good socket set for little more than a poor quality set in a flimsy plastic case.

I have been drawing my OAP for some years now, but I started collecting together tools a long time ago and, at times, have depended on them to work in tough conditions. I rarely need a new hand tool these days.

Also, ‘cheap-make’ used sockets and spanners are cheaper than chips. That includes some imported tools as not all imports are cheap trash. Second use or recycling is a perfectly legitimate way of sourcing tools.

Edited to add: Have a good birthday tomorrow.

Edited By not done it yet on 10/04/2021 15:54:27

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