Myford secondhand machine prices

[CotswoldsPhilParticipant @cotswoldsphil]

[CotswoldsPhilParticipant @cotswoldsphil]

Morning,

I've been looking for a ML7 tailstock to be able to use the Cowell attachment on the (new to me) Super 7 (as advised elsewhere on this Forum) but the prices being asked are unreal. There appears to be a growing market in expensive bits from broken Myfords.

I'm astonished at the prices being asked / made on 3Bay and GumTr33 for what look like scruffy basic machines with little or no tooling. Over the last couple of nights I've watched the end of auctions for ML7's to try and gauge their worth ready for the sale of my ML7.

ML7 (MK1 tailstock) no clutch, no stand, just a basic machine, which looked to have been repainted some years before – it made £510.

ML7 (Mk11 tailstock this time) no clutch, no stand, a little basic tooling, but no 6 inch 4 jaw, it made £700.

ML7 (Mk1 tailstock again) looks neglected with visible rust, no clutch, on a stand with some tooling and 2 chucks asking £950.

Inside the back page of the latest MEW are adverts for ML7's – no clutch, no stand, just a 3 jaw chuck included; asking £1225 and £1425 + 20% Vat, they are later wide-guide saddles at least.

What's happening to Myford prices?

Regards

CotswoldsPhil

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

Posted by CotswoldsPhil on 03/09/2014 09:50:21:

What's happening to Myford prices?

Regards

CotswoldsPhil

They are being governed by what people are willing to pay. – It's as simple as that.!

Nick

[CotswoldsPhilParticipant @cotswoldsphil]

Hi Nick,

I guess then that I should swap the tail-stocks on the machines, upgrading the ML7 to a Super 7 tail-stock and sell on the ML7 with S7 tail-stock, adding the Cowell attachment to the (new to me) Super 7. I'm not getting on well with the ejector mechanism on the S7 tail-stock, I keep ejecting the drill-chuck.

Regards

Phil H

[Nigel BennettParticipant @nigelbennett69913]

Erm.. yes, that what it does, ejects the tailstock chuck. I agree that until you get used to it, it can be a little frustrating, but how else can you eject tools? When I had an ML7, I kept a suitable aluminium-headed steel rod in the tailstock to knock out tools, but I soon learned to love the Super 7.

Perhaps you could mark on the barrel where it starts to eject so that you don't go past it.(This position may vary with other taper-shank tooling, though.)

I think I'd be a little nervous about swapping tailstocks between lathes; although they're supposed to be the same centre height, I imagine there could be a bit of variation, which might upset your ability to turn parallel when using a.tailstock centre

I think the prices of machine tools of any persuasion have risen sharply over the past couple of years. Finding a bargain on eBay now is a rare occurrence.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Nick_G on 03/09/2014 10:27:24:

Posted by CotswoldsPhil on 03/09/2014 09:50:21:

What's happening to Myford prices?

They are being governed by what people are willing to pay. – It's as simple as that.!

.

… and the new prices are providing a benchmark.

Upon which subject, can anyone justify the current price for a C16 ??

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

The next MEW will feature a few reader ads with apparently good deals on used ML7s.

Neil

[Flying FiferParticipant @flyingfifer]

Upon which subject, can anyone justify the current price for a C16 ??

The answer Michael is NO.

What about £749 + vat for a tailstock .

Cotswoldphil you`ll have to apply thinking to fit your Attachment or that other specialist engineering factor bodging!!

Alan

[CotswoldsPhilParticipant @cotswoldsphil]

Michael – I always thought die-cast parts were less expensive?

Neil – Can I join in on the reader ads for ML7's? Mine's detailed in an album I've created ready for a sale. What's classed as a good deal?

Flying Fifer Is £749+vat your offer of a tailstock + the machine as well? I've already started looking at the Cowell and how I might adapt it. Could be an article there somewhere.

Regards

CotswoldsPhil

[Flying FiferParticipant @flyingfifer]

No Phil thats the current price on a certain website for tailstock only. I`m sure there is an article in there and I look forward to eventually seeing it in MEW.

Regards Alan

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> Neil – Can I join in on the reader ads for ML7's? Mine's detailed in an album I've created ready for a sale.

Submit the form at the bottom of this page http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/editorial/page.asp?p=250 or in every issue of MEW (you DO subscribe, don't you?)

> What's classed as a good deal?

One where both buyer and seller are happy!

The ads will include one for £400 with 3 & 4 jaw chucks, change gears, vertical slide, fixed steady and QCTP. I cannot give any indication of age or condition.

I will NOT release the seller's phone number ahead of publication.

Neil

[CotswoldsPhilParticipant @cotswoldsphil]

Alan,

Blimey – the secondhand prices I've been seeing are a real bargain then.

CotswoldsPhil

[CotswoldsPhilParticipant @cotswoldsphil]

Hi Neil,

I subscribe to ME and get MEW via my Newsagent. I wrote the Small Chains article in ME published this week. I'm just getting active again with model engineering, after years of stop start activity.

I'll prepare an advert as well as adding one to the website. Do you have a deadline?

Regards

CotswoldsPhil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Hi Phil,

I try to insert free ads more or less in the order I get them. If we run out of room those that don't fit roll over to the next, but issue 221 is now full, so it would be issue 222 for you – if you are prompt!

Neil

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

In fairness it always used to be reckoned that spare parts and assemblies for pretty much anything were 3 or 4 times the price when bought separately as compared to the pro rata fraction of the new cost of the complete thing. Still seems to be true for factory parts. What skews perceptions is the ready availability of a partial range low cost pattern spares for mass production items at typically 1/3 rd to 1/2 of factory parts costs. Especially cars and some white goods.

Where you have a limited market parts stocking and distribution costs will be higher due to the onsie twosie nature of supply which always costs more than a decent stream. Parts made in small numbers for obsolete items are also more expensive than when you can just divert a fraction of the supply to the production line. If you have to have several years supply made to get an acceptable batch size that also pushes costs up 'cos you have to finance and store the pile until sold.

That feedscrew nut is a quid or two cheaper than the transparent plastic door basket I just ordered for my Samsung upright freezer after the original did its self eject thing and shattered. Maybe not so bad after all.

Clive

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

An interesting discovery …

This copy of the ML7 manual includes a spares price list dated February 1997.

MichaelG.

[CotswoldsPhilParticipant @cotswoldsphil]

Hi Michael,

I have a Myford price list from March 1970 obtained when I bought a swiveling vertical slide for £9.10.0 – you could buy a basic ML7 less motor for £106.0.0. A cabinet-stand, tray, and raising blocks was a wopping £30, nothing new there then.

Regards

Phil H

Edited By CotswoldsPhil on 05/09/2014 09:58:11

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Round about year 2000 I got a cross slide lead screw, and nut for a Myford S 7 for $NZ 5, it was new old stock from a firm in Christchurch that had been the Myford agents in Canterbury in the 1950s, one of the older staff members found it for me in the stores dept.

Ian S C

[John BaguleyParticipant @johnbaguley78655]

I bought my ML7 new in 1973 from the old Reeves when they were in Marson Green? I paid about £150. No motor but the price included tray, raising blocks, 3 jaw chuck, tailstock chuck, vertical slide, and a set of lathe tools. I was on a course at the time and when I came home one weekend the lathe was in the front room. The chaps from Reeves had delivered it to Derby foc! It's been in constant use since then and is still going strong. The only thing I've replaced is the cross-slide leadscrew and nut. It's now got a 3 phase motor and inverter though which has improved it no end.

John

[NJHParticipant @njh]

This thread has made me think a bit.

I recall earning about £3 a week when I started work in 1961 which seems very little now but, at the time, it seemed to get me ( almost!) sufficient supplies of beer, paid for my entertainment and allowed me to give my Mum some for my keep.

The thing is though making comparisons such as " I paid so and so for this widget in 19XX" and just look at the price now " are meaningless. Pretty much EVERYTHING seems expensive when compared with past prices.

HERE is a little tool ( provided by the Bank Of England) which tell you what to expect.

( Remember – they KNOW about inflation! )

That should cheer you all up!

Norman

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Interesting calculator there, Norman. According to it, the prices CotswaldPhil paid in 1970 work out equivalent to:

9 Pound Vertical Slide in 1970 = 120 pounds today.

106 pound ML7 (sans motor) in 1970 = 1400 pounds today.

Last time I looked at a new Myford vertical slide, it was around the 250 quid mark, so relatively double its 1970 value.

[CotswoldsPhilParticipant @cotswoldsphil]

I think Hopper's figures illustrate the point I was trying to make, that prices are really out of kilter by a wide margin. In 1969 I paid £115 for a second-hand (4 year old) ML7 in very good condition, with some tooling, chucks, no milling slide though but including a 1/3 hp motor. I could not stretch to a new one or a Super 7 which I really wanted, on my £4 / week wages.

I've now managed, after all these years, to purchase a Super 7 (1972 vintage) in very good condition for what I think is a fair price, it needed work to replace the annular contacts and some work on the front motor bearing and new belts. The ML7 is still in excellent condition; my activities in the intervening years have been to complete a Minnie traction engine. The ML7 will be for sale in the Classified section of the site as soon I can tear myself away from the Forum, and decide on a fair price. I've put photos of my ML7 in an album so I can remember it in years to come.

Regards

CotswoldsPhil

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

This may be heresy in the church of Myford but why don't people just vote with their wallets and consider getting something different? There are plenty of cheaper and possibly more capable alternatives available these days. Myford went bust because they couldn't keep up with the prices of imports, surely that says something?

(Kevlar jacket and tin hat at the ready…)

Pete

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Posted by Doubletop on 07/09/2014 11:08:12:

This may be heresy in the church of Myford but why don't people just vote with their wallets and consider getting something different? There are plenty of cheaper and possibly more capable alternatives available these days. Myford went bust because they couldn't keep up with the prices of imports, surely that says something?

Pete,

That's not an unreasonable comment. I think that the reason that the Myford 7 series lathes were (and are) so popular with the model engineer is that they were designed for that particular purpose. As such they are very flexible in their use and applications. Some plus points in, in my opinion, are:

Size: Can be carried by 2 people yet can turn 10" in the gap.

Versatility: An enormous range of accessories purpose designed to fit the lathe. Large speed range with full torque available throughout the range.

Ergonomics: Chuck changing (screw on) and speed changing are a breeze. All screw movements feel nice.

Reliabilty: The headstock is pretty much bullet proof in normal use. The motor is easily replaced by a standard unit – no electronic speed control to go wrong in lieu of backgear.

If you have a small workshop with only one machine tool it can't be beaten. The people who have them, value them. They aren't fools.

The downsides are:

1: price

2: price

3: price

The importers brought in inferior but largely adequate alternatives at a much lower price but there are occasionally articles in the mags about modifications necessary to make some of the imports work from new , I don't think that was ever the case with a 7 series Myford. So, if you can get a second hand Myford then they can be good value. Do I have one? Yes. Would I spend £6,000 to buy a new one? No, I'd buy a Chinese lathe and a milling machine. Would I sell mine and buy something new? No, it suits my needs in making engineering models admirably.

Cheers,

Rod

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Excellent summary, Rod

MichaelG.

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