Myford Mk1 Super 7 restoration

[MortyParticipant @morty]

Hi Everyone!

This is My first thread of a 'Proper Job' that I've started, so bear with Me while I get used to the posting process!

Last year, May 10th to be precise, I bought My long waited for first lathe.

May 12th, I had a heart attack.

I've come through it all right, but it's taken a while to get going again!

So when I was put on enforced 'holiday' (like many, many more), I decided to make a start on getting it tidy.

Some pics :-

The Serial number tells Me that I have a lathe built between 1955 – 1958, ( I was also built in 1958……) and the head stock design tells Me it is a MK1 with oil drip feed:-

…and the early QCGB:-

….and early clutch:-

I lubed it and carefully ran it up and it seems to run OK, but the motor lags behing the switch (Salton) by about a second (normal?) and does not appear to be on a resiliant mount, but I may look at a Newton Tesla 3 phase conversion set.

Clutch works fine!

Apart from general crustiness, it seems in quite good health, only signs of trouble where a bit of chuck rash and wear on leadscrew thread, and the usual wear on the bed causing a bit of tightness about 12" along.

Rear toolpost fitted (Myford?)

The plan is to strip, paint and rebuild it with new bits where nessecsary, I will decide on bed re-grind when I measure it up.

Since taking these I have started stripping it, but not sure how the leadscrew detatches from the gearbox, not found a lot online, any ideas?

Thanks for looking in, and welcome to My journey!

Cheers, Pete

[MortyParticipant @morty]

[egaParticipant @ega]

Yes, that RTP looks like an early Myford job with its boat-shaped tool height adjuster.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Looks to be a good versatile machine, apart from the surface rust. You should have LOTS of pleasure from it!

Howard

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Hi and welcome!

I note comment about rear toolpost. I can confirm that it is Myford – I have one.

My S7 dates from around 1971. Now got Newton – Tesla vfd drive as the old motor 'went home'.One of the best extras that can be fitted to the basic lathe, in my opinion. I have collected quite a few accessories over time. Very satisfied with my purchase many years ago.

Hope you get a lot of pleasure from using it like I have.

John

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Morty, a pal has the same machine and did a refurb a couple of years back which turned out very well indeed, he had the same bed problem and not being flush with cash came up with a novel solution – too much to write here but if you want the "method" message me.

Enjoy the machine and the refurb

John

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

I have the later model. That looks good though , with a repaint & some TLC it should be all good. I am not sure but I think you can get new legend plates from Myford. Like the gearbox change settings.

Steve.

[MortyParticipant @morty]

Hi there!

Thanks Everyone for the replies, I am looking forward to doing this!

John, yes I saw that the plates were available, the ones that I saw had the turned -down front edge but that should not be a problem.  Never seen the all red one before though?

Steve, PM sent.

Cheers, Pete

Edited By Morty on 04/04/2020 23:56:39

Edited By Morty on 05/04/2020 00:15:27

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

Morning Pete, welcome to the Myford "it's older than I am" club – which mine is. I've got one looks exactly the same in my shed, love it to bits. It's a little bit older than this but it's a trooper.

Two little jobs to recommend to you if I may:

1. Clean the half nuts, as that is almost certainly the cause of the thread wear you show on the leadscrew. That means withdrawing the leadscrew – the bottom nut will come out downwards but the top nut is held in by the lead screw. But I bet the halfnuts are full of an abrasive mix of compacted swarf and old oil, which is abrading the lead screw and stopping the half nuts engaging fully.

This means removing the leadscrew, come back to that.

2. Cover the ventilation slots in the motor. The more modern version has a totally enclosed motor, but this one is vulnerable to bits of swarf taking a hike down the openings in the motor. Can be exciting.

Going back to taking the lead screw out, I think I'm right in that the leadscrew you have does not go right through the gearbox like the later one does, so all you do it remove the little cover RHS of the QCGB and unto a grubscrew (maybe two?) to loosen the drive gear just inside. With the half nuts handle removed, now remove the two screws at the tailstock end of the leadscrew which mount the RHS bearing to the bed of the lathe. The lead screw with hand wheel, bearing bracket etc should now slide to the right, out of the half nuts. I haven't done this for ages, if anyone else knows different or I've left out a stage please correct me.

One other comment – you have the (contemporary) Mark 1 gear box there – if you get into playing tunes on the gear train between the mandrel and the gearbox to cut threads other than those shown on the gearbox legend plate you need to know that your gearbox runs at half the speed of the later Mk 2 gearbox. Plenty on here to explain what that does to the arithmetic, more anon.

And lastly, my take on the bed wear issue is that unless it is completely outrageous it is survivable, and getting fixated on whether the bed is parallel is not necessary.

HTH Simon

[MortyParticipant @morty]

Hi Simon!

Does that mean You are even older than Me………… (I'm '58 vintage)

Thanks for answering My plea I should have checked the forum before I went into the garage!

I have literally just come back in, discovered the secret of how the leadscrew is connected to the gearbox,but the only Allen key I hav'nt got is…….

Anyway, I removed the gear that drives the leadscrew and it slid out of the box!

As it stands, it is sitting with the apron, g/box end casing and R/H mounting and handwheel still in place ready to stripdown.

I'm going to remove the motor tomorrow, from what I can see it seems to be bolted to an 1/2" aluminium

Plate, the bolts appear to go through the motor casing!

The halfnuts are there, er, somewhere, covered in what appears to be sawdust, I will give everything a good clean as I go.

Thanks for info on the gearbox speed, I was not aware of that, lots of homework to do!

I will post some more pics tomorrow, they may help anyone else working on this vintage of Myford, now or in the future.

Many, many thanks again Simon!

Cheers Pete

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Please Please promise that you won’t connect that lathe up to power again before you’ve had those electrics professionally checked out!

Looking at your pictures I am sure you have some serious safety issues!

Edited By V8Eng on 05/04/2020 14:04:20

Edited By V8Eng on 05/04/2020 14:08:51

[DMRParticipant @dmr]

Hi Morty,

I sent you a PM yesterday. A vital piece of information previously related to on this site is the removal of the countershaft that the clutch is on. The shaft MUST be removed towards the tailstock as there is a tiny step that is damaged if you try and remove it the other way. I have the relevant pages of the Mk1 manual that cover the clutch. I can send if you PM me with an e-mail address. Another bit of info is that because the serial number is still on the back, your bed has never been reground and the wear is on the front shear front and back only.

Good luck.

[MortyParticipant @morty]

Hi there!

Hi V8Eng:- Rest assured I will not be powering it up again, I only run it up to see if the motor ran, and gearbox and clutch operation.

I would have preferred to keep it 'original ', ie new drum switch, single phase etc, but have decided for safety and ease of operation to fit a new 3 phase motor with VFD etc.

I appreciate the warning, many thanks.

Hi DMR :- I hav'nt checked My messages yet, I will go and have a look.

I would appreciate the manual into on the mk1 clutch, not an awful lot online about them, but I did pick up somewhere during research about the direction in which to remove the shaft but it did not elaborate too much.

I also read about reground here having a 'R' stamped after the restamped number, but I think this was on a Myford regrind.

I will be taking the motorising assembly and gearbox off tomorrow, then I will measure the bed up.

I hav'nt found a number on the gearbox yet to date it, I understand the 'Early' early boxes had unhardened gears, but I think they pre-date this year.

I will PM My email address to You, many thanks for the offer!

More pics tomorrow!

Many thanks both!

Cheers, Pete

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Posted by V8Eng on 05/04/2020 13:47:35:

Please Please promise that you won’t connect that lathe up to power again before you’ve had those electrics professionally checked out!

Looking at your pictures I am sure you have some serious safety issues!

Edited By V8Eng on 05/04/2020 14:04:20

Edited By V8Eng on 05/04/2020 14:08:51

Why do you think that? Yes it's old. Yes there isn't secondary isolation over the wiring. Yes it certainly doesn't comply with the 18th edition of the Regs, but there is no intrinsic danger visible…

[DMRParticipant @dmr]

Quote:

I hav'nt found a number on the gearbox yet to date it, I understand the 'Early' early boxes had unhardened gears, but I think they pre-date this year.

It's under the cover at the tailstock end, QC followed by 4 numbers less than 2496. If you know the lathe's history and it was not in private hands, then quite likely the gearbox was retro-fitted with hardened cogs at cost by Myford as there was a recognised flaw. Private buyers were not told I believe. The guts of the gearbox are identical to the later version but external drive was totally different. If you want to cut anything that is not an imperial thread, then you need to consult those who know.

Before further cost outlay as in 3 phase drive, etc, get the thing running and try it out. You may decide a different path. Use the existing electrics for the same reason, as you have proved they work, but check any wiring for faults, frays, nicks, etc. Take no notice of the Elfin Safety lot or you won't get anywhere.

[DMRParticipant @dmr]

Double posting. Sorry

Edited By DMR on 05/04/2020 18:06:51

[MortyParticipant @morty]

Hi Mark and DMR!

If I did decide to use the original motor it would have had an overhaul/replacement, rewire and new switch etc, but I'm not sure if it would cost much less than fitting a new 3 phase motor etc., coupled with soft start and variable speed seems a worthwhile step.

Also I'm not sure how the motor is mounted yet, it does not appear to have mounting feet, it looks like it bolted to an aluminium plate through the motor casing!

I'll know more tomorrow when I remove it from the motorising unit.

I will have plenty of decisions to make as the job progresses, the way forward will include the motor.

I've decided that while the lathe is dismantled is an ideal time to make sure it gives Me good service for as long as need it.

All suggestions gratefully received as I am a newcomer to this wonderful hobby!

Many thanks, Cheers Pete

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

Hi Pete, thanks for those kind words, good to hear you manged to wiggle the lead screw out successfully.

Given the wear on the lead screw, you might decide to replace it. I have doubts if you'll find a new direct replacement, but the lead screw for the Mk2 S7 can be altered to fit, though I fancy you'll need a lathe to do it. Essentially the old screw is shorter than the new one, I can't remember if it needs a shoulder turned on the end to take the drive gear, when you're ready post a picture and we'll fathom it out.

Where are you? If you are anywhere near West Glos UK I'd be pleased to help. Of course that's not going to happen for the foreseeable future while this corona virus stuff is going on.

In passing, I checked the serial number of mine, it is SK 3534 which I believe makes is vintage 1953. Two years older than me!

KOBO

Rgds Simon

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Posted by Mark Rand on 05/04/2020 17:42:50:

Posted by V8Eng on 05/04/2020 13:47:35:

Please Please promise that you won’t connect that lathe up to power again before you’ve had those electrics professionally checked out!

Looking at your pictures I am sure you have some serious safety issues!

Edited By V8Eng on 05/04/2020 14:04:20

Edited By V8Eng on 05/04/2020 14:08:51

Why do you think that? Yes it's old. Yes there isn't secondary isolation over the wiring. Yes it certainly doesn't comply with the 18th edition of the Regs, but there is no intrinsic danger visible…

No intrinsic danger visible?

My main area of concern was those fuse holders, they are of a type which exposes the live connections completely when the fuse carrier is removed, being uncovered on the machine’s rear there is no protection to them from spilt oil or coolant etc.

If the wire colours are correct it also looks like both the live and neutral are fused.

If the wiring standards are like that on rest of the machine then it spells even more trouble.

Get an unknown electrical system checked out! Nothing to do with elf n safety or an edition of the Regs, just sensible precautions and hopefully common sense!

 

Edited By V8Eng on 05/04/2020 19:12:56

[MortyParticipant @morty]

Hi Simon!

Thanks for the info on the leadscrew, as You say it's a 'chicken and egg' problem when You have to repair Your lathe with no lathe!!

Before I stripped in down I checked for slop on the threads with the halfnuts engaged and did not feel any discernible movement, in fact I was quite surprised when I saw the wear!I

On the plus side, if I found it to be a problem when rebuilt, it's not a major job to take it out to replace it (now I know how!!)

I'm in Burton-on-Trent, Staffs, not a million miles away!

Thanks for the offer of help, it is very much appreciated, as You say at the moment I'm only going as far as the garage ( and the kettle!!)

It's nice to find someone with a similar vintage Myford, I've got a fondness for older machinary, I worked on 50's and 60's machinery at work when I was younger (I was a Fitter's Mate at Pirelli tyres in the 70's – 80's), so the machinery was similar technology)

I will be looking for a mill next, maybe a Tom……..

Many thanks!

Cheers, Pete

[MortyParticipant @morty]

Hi Everyone!

Some more progress Today:-

Leadscrew released from captivity, this earlier box supports the end of the leadscrew, loosen the grubscrew to slide it through the driven gear:-

Apron could do with a bit of a clean (Someone made a Fruit Bowl?):-

Motor pulley came off alright, but missed one of the TWO grubscrews on the countershaft pulley boss ( Crack….Ebay!)

It might be able to be welded, I'll have a look….

This is the one I found…….

Motor mount plate released to swing down for better access and motor removed,it is a single Phase 1/2 hp not resilliant mounted:-

Gearbox is removed by taking off top plate to access two capscrews at top edge, and removing plug at the lower front of box gives access to a slotted screw that picks up one of the redundant leadscrew L/H bracket holes.

Packing strip at top recovered and put back on bed with screws to keep safe:-

Some views of removed gearbox, serial number ( stamped on top R/H side of casting under output gear cover(, shows it to be an early, early box:-

Think I will treat it to a new belt !:-

Motorising Unit removed, bolts screwed back in to headstock for safe-keeping:-

Tomorrow's job is spindle and headstock removal:-

Thanks for looking in!

Keep Safe, Cheers, Pete

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by V8Eng on 05/04/2020 19:01:36:

Posted by Mark Rand on 05/04/2020 17:42:50:

Posted by V8Eng on 05/04/2020 13:47:35:

Please Please promise that you won’t connect that lathe up to power again before you’ve had those electrics professionally checked out!

…

Why do you think that? Yes it's old. Yes there isn't secondary isolation over the wiring. Yes it certainly doesn't comply with the 18th edition of the Regs, but there is no intrinsic danger visible…

…

Get an unknown electrical system checked out! Nothing to do with elf n safety or an edition of the Regs, just sensible precautions and hopefully common sense!

…

I agree with V8 and it's all easily fixed. In addition to the dodgy fuses and exposed wires, the earth is a tiny rusty bolt and the cables look like rubber. Never trust old rubber…

Dave

[MortyParticipant @morty]

Hi Everyone!

I have decided th fit a new 3 phase motor and control gear, it comes ready wired up so I reckon it will be nice and safe and an improvement over the original motor as well!

Cheers, Pete

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Hi Morty. Great job you are doing. I did quite a bit with mine when I bought it. It looked like new though. I fitted a set of standard Myford belts, don't be tempted as many will tell you how good they are, the temporary linked belts. Clack clack clack when worn. I will get shot for saying that but it's a fact. I fitted a inverter & 1.5hp motor. Not because of power like some rib me about, but because I got a great Omron inverter 2nd hand for £80. It was a 1.1kw.

So with that I was going to fit a 1hp motor. The difference in price was little so I opted for the bigger motor. Running it is as quiet as a church mouse. Love it. I know the Myford has it's limits, which are a few ,like the 3 1/2" swing, MT2 through hole on the head stock. But when set up with minimum tolerances they are a nice machine.

You will not be disappointed with it. Remember it is a small lathe. Some of my friends have huge Colchesters, Harrisons etc. But when they see my little machine they all comment on nice it is. Or is it them just being nice to me..HaHa.

Look in my albums & you will see the control panel I built. It did not cost much & the engraved front plate was only £25. Which finishes it off nicely. Better than dymo tape stickers.

If you are going to fit a tacho. See the one I fitted at the left of the headstock. Some fit them to the belt pulley under the guard, but I tried that & it did not seem right. I bonded the magnet to the locking ring to the left in your last picture. It has stayed in place ok.

Tom Senior. Yes they go hand in hand. 2 old bangers together is what I have , after many hours /days/weeks looking at different milling machines. Lots of Asian import ones & in particular a Warco. & the Sieg 3.5 twin turbo, which is unavailable anyway. So I ended up with this one. Yesterday I have just finished the X-Axis power feed using the Ford Mondeo wiper motor. Tonight I have been milling some large toolholders down to fit the 250-111 quick change toolpost. Worked a treat. Anyway keep us all up to date as you progress through the refurb. I think I spend more time in the workshop looking at them than using them.

Steve.

[MortyParticipant @morty]

Hi Steve!

Nice workshop You've got there!

Myford is looking sweet and the Tom is in really nice condition!

I've been doing My homework on the Tom Milling Machines, but I missed the fact that the 'light' does not have power 'X' feed?

The 'Light' is my prefered choice due to the fine downfeed, but they seem a bit thin on the ground compared to the M1.

I have also put on the possibles list a new Warco VMC, I would prefer an old British though!

Thanks for the info on building a control panel, filed away!

I'm looking at the Newton Tesla 1hp motor for the Myford, comes with the inverter all wired in, bit more money but would seem a logical choice for Myself!

Once again, many thanks for the help and advice, it is heartening that so many people are taking notice of My restoration, and the offers of help and advice are really humbling!

I'm putting another posting up next on the Myford.

Cheers, Pete

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